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Post by bgrotto on Oct 27, 2022 14:43:56 GMT -6
I'm as liberal as they come and find this PP thing very disturbing. I also find it very telling that the knee jerk reaction on the right is to blame the left, as if corporate interests give a damn about partisanship. It seems to me a hard reflection of the misinformation machine writ large. I think the right has been conditioned to feel this way by the fact that they have been disproportionately booted off of social media platforms that were owned by left leaning people. I'm glad to see most all of us agree though that the PP policy is a bad idea no matter which side of the aisle you're on. Well...it seems we certainly agree that there is a scary amount of "conditioning" going on 😉 |
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Post by hadaja on Oct 27, 2022 15:05:14 GMT -6
Moving towards that social justice score. Reading lately that Bill Gates is heavily into this scenario and backing it with $$$ billions in investment in social justice score systems. But guess what? I am confident that it wont work for a quite a few years off, or even ever. i saw this meme recently . which said : “.....I am now in dire need of new conspiracy theories being the fact that all my old ones, came true.....” |
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Post by ab101 on Oct 27, 2022 15:09:38 GMT -6
Banks and I believe paypal are supposed to be regulated and are not supposed to discriminate based on politics, beliefs, religion, race, etc.
Social networks like Facebook have a congressional exception on liability related to publishers, but that can go away if the social network is regulating what would otherwise be protected speech, or if congress changes the law on the exception - Section 230, Communications Decency Act.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 27, 2022 15:24:45 GMT -6
Banks and I believe paypal are supposed to be regulated and are not supposed to discriminate based on politics, beliefs, religion, race, etc. Social networks like Facebook have a congressional exception on liability related to publishers, but that can go away if the social network is regulating what would otherwise be protected speech, or if congress changes the law on the exception - Section 230, Communications Decency Act. Problem is, to my knowledge, politics, beliefs and personal convictions are not protected classes the way that Sex, Ethnicity, Gender etc are. Also, is PayPal regulated as a bank? Honest question there because I have no idea. The real interesting thing here is the (questionable) legality of a company charging punitive fines for anything. I mean can I write a clause giving myself permission to fine my music clients every time they post something on IG that I don’t like, but good luck with that. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 15:29:59 GMT -6
I think the right has been conditioned to feel this way by the fact that they have been disproportionately booted off of social media platforms that were owned by left leaning people. I'm glad to see most all of us agree though that the PP policy is a bad idea no matter which side of the aisle you're on. Well...it seems we certainly agree that there is a scary amount of "conditioning" going on 😉 We’re in agreement if we acknowledge it’s happening on both sides of the aisle 👍🏻 |
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Post by bgrotto on Oct 27, 2022 15:45:32 GMT -6
Well...it seems we certainly agree that there is a scary amount of "conditioning" going on 😉 We can agree if we acknowledge it’s happening on both sides of the isle 👍🏻 Yes, we can certainly agree on that, but my whole point is actually about this knee jerk reaction to even mentioning "the aisle" in response to these sorts of shenanigans. Corporations like PP could give a damn about partisan politics. To respond to their sketchy-ass posturing by making some accusation about "social justice" indicates to me a very successful misinformation campaign being waged by massive corporations to deflect attention away from their shitty behavior, and the redirecting of attention towards some unrelated "libs vs cons" spat. It's corporate sleight of hand and it's clearly working. |
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Post by ab101 on Oct 27, 2022 15:56:35 GMT -6
Banks and I believe paypal are supposed to be regulated and are not supposed to discriminate based on politics, beliefs, religion, race, etc. Social networks like Facebook have a congressional exception on liability related to publishers, but that can go away if the social network is regulating what would otherwise be protected speech, or if congress changes the law on the exception - Section 230, Communications Decency Act. Problem is, to my knowledge, politics, beliefs and personal convictions are not protected classes the way that Sex, Ethnicity, Gender etc are. Also, is PayPal regulated as a bank? Honest question there because I have no idea. The real interesting thing here is the (questionable) legality of a company charging punitive fines for anything. I mean can I write a clause giving myself permission to fine my music clients every time they post something on IG that I don’t like, but good luck with that. Whenever federal funding, federal licensing or heavy federal regulation is involved it is usually more like the FHA protections rather than a suspect class constitutional analysis. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 27, 2022 16:16:32 GMT -6
SNIP The real interesting thing here is the (questionable) legality of a company charging punitive fines for anything. I mean can I write a clause giving myself permission to fine my music clients every time they post something on IG that I don’t like, but good luck with that. That is the real question! THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO! Property in trust, including currency, is held in trust, not in right of. The bearer stills owns any propertry held in trust. They do not have license to interfere with any holdings. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 16:32:29 GMT -6
We can agree if we acknowledge it’s happening on both sides of the isle 👍🏻 Yes, we can certainly agree on that, but my whole point is actually about this knee jerk reaction to even mentioning "the aisle" in response to these sorts of shenanigans. Corporations like PP could give a damn about partisan politics. To respond to their sketchy-ass posturing by making some accusation about "social justice" indicates to me a very successful misinformation campaign being waged by massive corporations to deflect attention away from their shitty behavior, and the redirecting of attention towards some unrelated "libs vs cons" spat. It's corporate sleight of hand and it's clearly working. You did start your comment by saying you're a liberal so it's hard not to think about the aisle at that point 🤣. To believe PP has nothing but the most capitalistic of intentions, we'd have to ignore the existence of ESG altogether. The comment about a social justice score isn't just pulling something out of thin air(see China for example). I don't think you're seeing a knee jerk reaction at all. I think you have "the right" who has seen a double standard in censorship, deplatforming, debanking(is that a word? 🤣) time and time again over the past few years. I'd love to hear the example of a prominent person on the left that said something controversial and was simultaneously kicked off of all social media at the same time. Or, how about this...tell me about the left leaning protest where the fundraisers were taken off of PayPal or GoFundMe and their bank accounts were shut down. Who is the liberal actor that lost their job on a show or a movie for something they posted on social media? If there was consistency I don't think you'd have this reaction. I think people are annoyed but in general can deal with losing a social media account, but when you start talking about their money that is some next level creepiness. Even in business, I think we're way past the days of Michael Jordan saying " r e p u b l i c a n s buy shoes too." Now, it's "believe the same as us or else." |
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 27, 2022 16:36:28 GMT -6
We can agree if we acknowledge it’s happening on both sides of the isle 👍🏻 Yes, we can certainly agree on that, but my whole point is actually about this knee jerk reaction to even mentioning "the aisle" in response to these sorts of shenanigans. Corporations like PP could give a damn about partisan politics. To respond to their sketchy-ass posturing by making some accusation about "social justice" indicates to me a very successful misinformation campaign being waged by massive corporations to deflect attention away from their shitty behavior, and the redirecting of attention towards some unrelated "libs vs cons" spat. It's corporate sleight of hand and it's clearly working. I agree with you to a point, I don't think the board of directors of any big corporation cares about red vs blue...green is the color that wins. However, the HR departments, DEI offices, and ESG scores often result in very partisan positions being pushed, and least internally if not externally. I work for a major corporation in my day job. And the DEI office is getting very heavy handed in pushing what I, and others feel, are very partisan "Social Justice" issues. I could give examples but I'm already pushing the limits of our no politics rule... But to my poin I don't really think its slight of hand or misinformation that's leading people to the assumption that its "Libs vs Cons". I do however agree that it happens on both sides quite a bit, and saying its a Lib vs Con thing is somewhat of an over simplification. |
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Post by bgrotto on Oct 27, 2022 16:56:01 GMT -6
Yes, we can certainly agree on that, but my whole point is actually about this knee jerk reaction to even mentioning "the aisle" in response to these sorts of shenanigans. Corporations like PP could give a damn about partisan politics. To respond to their sketchy-ass posturing by making some accusation about "social justice" indicates to me a very successful misinformation campaign being waged by massive corporations to deflect attention away from their shitty behavior, and the redirecting of attention towards some unrelated "libs vs cons" spat. It's corporate sleight of hand and it's clearly working. I agree with you to a point, I don't think the board of directors of any big corporation cares about red vs blue...green is the color that wins. However, the HR departments, DEI offices, and ESG scores often result in very partisan positions being pushed, and least internally if not externally. I work for a major corporation in my day job. And the DEI office is getting very heavy handed in pushing what I, and others feel, are very partisan "Social Justice" issues. I could give examples but I'm already pushing the limits of our no politics rule... But to my poin I don't really think its slight of hand or misinformation that's leading people to the assumption that its "Libs vs Cons". I do however agree that it happens on both sides quite a bit, and saying its a Lib vs Con thing is somewhat of an over simplification. I hear you loud and clear, I don't disagree entirely, but once again, I need to point out that the replies to my post are demonstrating my exact point: in a discussion about corporate malfeasance, we keep circling back to a discussion on partisan politics. The criticism here lies with PayPal, full stop. Invoking any sort of left vs right debate here is a smoke screen that is well-funded by elite corporatists whose political concerns start and stop with how much money they can milk from you and me. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Oct 27, 2022 17:05:09 GMT -6
^^^ I was trying to get the words right but couldn’t. You did.
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 17:14:16 GMT -6
I agree with you to a point, I don't think the board of directors of any big corporation cares about red vs blue...green is the color that wins. However, the HR departments, DEI offices, and ESG scores often result in very partisan positions being pushed, and least internally if not externally. I work for a major corporation in my day job. And the DEI office is getting very heavy handed in pushing what I, and others feel, are very partisan "Social Justice" issues. I could give examples but I'm already pushing the limits of our no politics rule... But to my poin I don't really think its sleight of hand or misinformation that's leading people to the assumption that its "Libs vs Cons". I do however agree that it happens on both sides quite a bit, and saying its a Lib vs Con thing is somewhat of an over simplification. I hear you loud and clear, I don't disagree entirely, but once again, I need to point out that the replies to my post are demonstrating my exact point: in a discussion about corporate malfeasance, we keep circling back to a discussion on partisan politics. The criticism here lies with PayPal, full stop. Invoking any sort of left vs right debate here is a smoke screen that is well-funded by elite corporatists whose political concerns start and stop with how much money they can milk from you and me. I don’t know man…seems like wishful thinking to not recognize that the spirit of what PayPal tried to do has been the left’s M.O. in recent history. By the way, how did PayPal benefit from this whole fiasco? Doesn’t seem like a decision motivated by making more money. It looks more like them trying to push the ESG ideology and it backfired big time. |
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Post by ab101 on Oct 27, 2022 17:42:27 GMT -6
Paypal can change its contract terms prospectively, unless it violates a law, constitution, regulation or license. Other than that, it is what it can get away with in a business sense.
Bottom line: read contracts before signing or before acting upon an "offer." It is amazing how many people do not read contracts.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2022 17:58:51 GMT -6
I agree with you to a point, I don't think the board of directors of any big corporation cares about red vs blue...green is the color that wins. However, the HR departments, DEI offices, and ESG scores often result in very partisan positions being pushed, and least internally if not externally. I work for a major corporation in my day job. And the DEI office is getting very heavy handed in pushing what I, and others feel, are very partisan "Social Justice" issues. I could give examples but I'm already pushing the limits of our no politics rule... But to my poin I don't really think its slight of hand or misinformation that's leading people to the assumption that its "Libs vs Cons". I do however agree that it happens on both sides quite a bit, and saying its a Lib vs Con thing is somewhat of an over simplification. I hear you loud and clear, I don't disagree entirely, but once again, I need to point out that the replies to my post are demonstrating my exact point: in a discussion about corporate malfeasance, we keep circling back to a discussion on partisan politics. The criticism here lies with PayPal, full stop. Invoking any sort of left vs right debate here is a smoke screen that is well-funded by elite corporatists whose political concerns start and stop with how much money they can milk from you and me. But if we're being candid, the trend of censoring "misinformation" is fully coming from the Left. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2022 18:00:09 GMT -6
It's awesome when places like Soundbetter ONLY offer Paypal as a payment option. They're most likely getting a kickback from PP.
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 18:12:38 GMT -6
I hear you loud and clear, I don't disagree entirely, but once again, I need to point out that the replies to my post are demonstrating my exact point: in a discussion about corporate malfeasance, we keep circling back to a discussion on partisan politics. The criticism here lies with PayPal, full stop. Invoking any sort of left vs right debate here is a smoke screen that is well-funded by elite corporatists whose political concerns start and stop with how much money they can milk from you and me. But if we're being candid, the trend of censoring "misinformation" is fully coming from the Left. Yep, and to make matters worse how much of that “misinformation” wound up being 100% the truth. No apologies, no corrections…just rinse and repeat. It’s getting awfully tiring. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 27, 2022 18:14:36 GMT -6
It is amazing how many people do not read contracts. It's amazing how FEW people actually read contracts. Even those who do fail to understand them, and don't even ask for help/clarification. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 27, 2022 18:25:26 GMT -6
I agree with you to a point, I don't think the board of directors of any big corporation cares about red vs blue...green is the color that wins. However, the HR departments, DEI offices, and ESG scores often result in very partisan positions being pushed, and least internally if not externally. I work for a major corporation in my day job. And the DEI office is getting very heavy handed in pushing what I, and others feel, are very partisan "Social Justice" issues. I could give examples but I'm already pushing the limits of our no politics rule... But to my poin I don't really think its slight of hand or misinformation that's leading people to the assumption that its "Libs vs Cons". I do however agree that it happens on both sides quite a bit, and saying its a Lib vs Con thing is somewhat of an over simplification. I hear you loud and clear, I don't disagree entirely, but once again, I need to point out that the replies to my post are demonstrating my exact point: in a discussion about corporate malfeasance, we keep circling back to a discussion on partisan politics. The criticism here lies with PayPal, full stop. Invoking any sort of left vs right debate here is a smoke screen that is well-funded by elite corporatists whose political concerns start and stop with how much money they can milk from you and me. Well, to be fair I don't see anyone's responses in this thread (mine included) as being "knee jerk". It feels a little condescending actually for you to say that, although I don't think that was your intent. Some of us actually have opinions that weren't born from corporate elitist propaganda. Yes, this topic has quite a lot of nuance to it, more than many people admit (including conservatives). And yes the buck stops with Paypal, and we're all right to be outraged by it, you're correct about that. BUT...I don't think its a fair assessment to call it a "smoke screen" when I can walk down the hall at work and the DEI bulletin board is basically filled with MSM talking points. And when the DEI dept tells us what language we have to use, not what language we can't use (a critical difference I'd say). I think its pretty fair when people interpret that as partisan. But YMMV. We're obviously not going to change each others minds on this and that's ok  I'll bow out now, I've probably already made this too political, so out of respect for the forum I'll stop. |
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Post by jhamm80 on Oct 27, 2022 18:32:12 GMT -6
I know I don't contribute much here (though I really value what I've learned about audio from all of you) so it may not be my place to say it, but shouldn't this be in the off topic area at best?
All this conspiracy theory stuff is just exhausting and silly.
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 18:37:43 GMT -6
I know I don't contribute much here (though I really value what I've learned about audio from all of you) so it may not be my place to say it, but shouldn't this be in the off topic area at best? All this conspiracy theory stuff is just exhausting and silly. Please give an example of a conspiracy theory posted in this thread. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2022 18:47:52 GMT -6
I know I don't contribute much here (though I really value what I've learned about audio from all of you) so it may not be my place to say it, but shouldn't this be in the off topic area at best? All this conspiracy theory stuff is just exhausting and silly. Could be in off topic. But I don’t see any conspiracy theories. |
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Post by bgrotto on Oct 27, 2022 21:20:59 GMT -6
I hear you loud and clear, I don't disagree entirely, but once again, I need to point out that the replies to my post are demonstrating my exact point: in a discussion about corporate malfeasance, we keep circling back to a discussion on partisan politics. The criticism here lies with PayPal, full stop. Invoking any sort of left vs right debate here is a smoke screen that is well-funded by elite corporatists whose political concerns start and stop with how much money they can milk from you and me. But if we're being candid, the trend of censoring "misinformation" is fully coming from the Left. Tell that to the librarians in Florida. |
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Post by bgrotto on Oct 27, 2022 21:29:03 GMT -6
I hear you loud and clear, I don't disagree entirely, but once again, I need to point out that the replies to my post are demonstrating my exact point: in a discussion about corporate malfeasance, we keep circling back to a discussion on partisan politics. The criticism here lies with PayPal, full stop. Invoking any sort of left vs right debate here is a smoke screen that is well-funded by elite corporatists whose political concerns start and stop with how much money they can milk from you and me. I don’t know man…seems like wishful thinking to not recognize that the spirit of what PayPal tried to do has been the left’s M.O. in recent history. By the way, how did PayPal benefit from this whole fiasco? Doesn’t seem like a decision motivated by making more money. It looks more like them trying to push the ESG ideology and it backfired big time. And here you continue to fault the left instead of the *actual* villain in this scheme. This is my whole point!! I won't bother arguing what I consider your misguided assertion about "the left's MO", because we won't come to understand one another and more importantly, it would make me a massive hypocrite in light of my point here in this thread about the diversionary tactics that corporations have (apparently very, very successfully) programmed into us all. I also don't want to misrepresent my attitude towards you and other users here, who I may disagree with vehemently on matters of policy (please note my deliberate avoidance of the word 'politics' here!), but still very much like on a personal level and respect on a professional one. Let's just collectively take a big fat dump on PayPal's head, and leave the petty partisanship aside. Both are futile, ultimately, but I suspect we as united plebes can effect far more change if we are united in criticism of real policy than is possible if we're simply (and I *do* mean "simply") bickering about politics. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 27, 2022 22:23:17 GMT -6
Looks like it's back in play.....
Online payments giant PayPal has quietly readopted a wildly unpopular policy allowing it to fine users $2,500 every time the company believes they violated its terms of service.....
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