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Post by robo on Sept 3, 2022 17:47:59 GMT -6
Tricks? the kick needs to be on the line. TIGHT. The bass needs to be just slightly behind the kick. Like up to 15 - 25 milliseconds. When it comes to the kick/bass relationship, too tight just doesn't sound right. JMHO I agree that the timing gap between kick and bass is more important than any mix tricks. For a lot of the music I work on the bass sounds best ahead of the kick a few milliseconds. Bass on top of the beat feels urgent and exciting. Behind feels open and laid back. Most good rhythm sections instinctively sort this out and it’s easy to mix. If you’re getting quantized/gridded tracks it really helps to slap on a time delay plugin and experiment before breaking out the sidechain compression, etc. *I’ve been lurking on the forum for a bit, but had to chime in on this subject. As a bassist/engineer. This is something I think about a lot!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,009
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Post by ericn on Sept 3, 2022 18:12:07 GMT -6
Getting the dynamics right, they both need to fit together and still individually stand out. The bass part also needs to be more than a simple 3 note run.
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Post by bchurch on Sept 4, 2022 8:43:31 GMT -6
But you can make a track for sub kick, top, both gated heavily,, then stereo early reflections from The gates.. , room reverb.. etc There are a few samples/impulses I like for pushing the kick. And to an earlier comment - most definitely in the dark/harsh/angry/angsty/everything-ends-in-"core" world I dwell, the kick drum is very dominant. The late 80's thrash and death metal scenes created what most people I know call 'the typewriter kick drum', with a very consistent 'tick' around 4-5kHz. So I've got a folder full of 'tick' samples I made at 96kHz that I can add on, that lets me focus on the live kick mics as an overall 'sound', instead of trying to notch out that little band. Same goes for the 'chest' folder, I made a lot of these myself recording things like a gong mallet on a couch cushion, slapping a cardboard box - I got so tired of describing things like "it should sound like somebody slapping a couch cushion" that I just recorded a bunch. Almost always I'm triggering a sine wave to push some cone underneath it all. Sometimes I actually tune the kick to the bass part throughout the song - it's a car crash when the song is in B, the kick is triggering a low B, and there's a min 2nd in the chord progression. So it's just easier to make to align the note with the rhythm guitar. Best part about all of these combined is that they might only constitute (in total) about 20-30% of what you're hearing in the mix. The help make the kick more musical, but also let me 'push' the actual mics. I'm usually got an RE20 inside at a 30º angle away from the beater towards the edge and an LDC about 3" off the front head with the whole drum tented or using a 24"x12" cardboard tube I found behind some building that was being renovated. Uuyuyuyy, sorry - I get really excited talking about kick drums.
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Post by stratboy on Sept 4, 2022 22:19:29 GMT -6
Fantastic thread. I’m learning a LOT. Thanks, all.
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Post by RealNoob on Sept 5, 2022 9:49:30 GMT -6
I'm shocked that in all the research I've done on this over the years, I have never heard folks talking about timing as a tool to sort this out. How are you guys adjusting, slowing, the bass? Sliding waveforms, delay plugin? Does fast attack compression on bass accomplish this?
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Post by robschnapf on Sept 5, 2022 10:18:36 GMT -6
I like getting the drummer and bass player to play well together. As in the parts actually work together. Then once the drums are together punching in the bass player where ever it feels weird. Of course I can always edit it but that’s different then feel. But if I’m gonna edit it, I will look at where they feel good and note the relationship frame wise And edit with that in mind. Peak limit kick really helps it sit right without squashing the fuck out of it.
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