ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 11, 2022 17:11:11 GMT -6
I think one of the funniest things involving vinyl is how the true believers don’t even understand that as you get further towards the end of a disk you limit the dynamics so you can actually play the disk.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 21:52:48 GMT -6
I think one of the funniest things involving vinyl is how the true believers don’t even understand that as you get further towards the end of a disk you limit the dynamics so you can actually play the disk. Frequency response too. An LP is constant radial velocity, so the stylus travels at a slower speed as you get toward the center of the disk.
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Post by jmoose on Aug 11, 2022 23:25:33 GMT -6
What infuriates me is that nobody seems willing to admit that tape deteriorates over time. Yes indeed & some of us know that... but like that quote from the article? Part of the problem is nobody really knows how records are made (speaking of the audiophile crowd) And then... for whatever reasons... the Bill Hicks trip starts rotating in my head... (...nobody knows how records are put together...)
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 12, 2022 5:24:24 GMT -6
I only got back into vinyl for the experience of looking over the packaging... The biggest mistake ever made by the label "suits" was not doing a 12" digital disk. I rolled my eyes when the CD was first released and, sadly, it turned out as bad as I feared.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 12, 2022 5:49:12 GMT -6
I only got back into vinyl for the experience of looking over the packaging... The biggest mistake ever made by the label "suits" was not doing a 12" digital disk. I rolled my eyes when the CD was first released and, sadly, it turned out as bad as I feared. But at least the industry actually agreed on a format! In many ways that might have been the greatest accomplishment of CD!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 12, 2022 5:52:06 GMT -6
They had little choice. The CD could be pressed in a vinyl plant making it far less of a gamble than anything else.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Aug 12, 2022 7:19:21 GMT -6
I only got back into vinyl for the experience of looking over the packaging... The biggest mistake ever made by the label "suits" was not doing a 12" digital disk. I rolled my eyes when the CD was first released and, sadly, it turned out as bad as I feared. Wasn't there some attempt at it using video disc technology that went nowhere? Can't recall for sure.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 12, 2022 7:24:05 GMT -6
The CD uses the Philips video disk technology married to Sony's digital audio recorded as video a-la PCM-F1!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 12, 2022 8:55:11 GMT -6
The CD uses the Philips video disk technology married to Sony's digital audio recorded as video a-la PCM-F1! Bob the goal that I was told by the guys from Sony was that they wanted one format for portable / car and home use, they were making big money on video and it had cut into the floor space at retail. So a single format was their answer. They really hated having titles in 3 formats during the transition. The retailers probably would have loved a 12in because as LP faded, retail theft skyrocketed.
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Post by Omicron9 on Aug 12, 2022 9:49:14 GMT -6
I think one of the funniest things involving vinyl is how the true believers don’t even understand that as you get further towards the end of a disk you limit the dynamics so you can actually play the disk. + inner groove distortion.
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Post by Omicron9 on Aug 12, 2022 9:51:28 GMT -6
I only got back into vinyl for the experience of looking over the packaging... The biggest mistake ever made by the label "suits" was not doing a 12" digital disk. I rolled my eyes when the CD was first released and, sadly, it turned out as bad as I feared. This is akin to one of my own pet theories. I suspect that if vinyl was a 5" silver disk and you played it by loading it into a drawer, there wouldn't be the big vinyl craze that we're currently seeing. Just a theory. <shrug> -09
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 12, 2022 10:01:37 GMT -6
The biggest mistake ever made by the label "suits" was not doing a 12" digital disk. I rolled my eyes when the CD was first released and, sadly, it turned out as bad as I feared. This is akin to one of my own pet theories. I suspect that if vinyl was a 5" silver disk and you played it by loading it into a drawer, there wouldn't be the big vinyl craze that we're currently seeing. Just a theory. <shrug> -09 On that note has anyone found a modern reissue that sounds as good no less better than an old one?
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Post by Omicron9 on Aug 12, 2022 10:03:58 GMT -6
This is akin to one of my own pet theories. I suspect that if vinyl was a 5" silver disk and you played it by loading it into a drawer, there wouldn't be the big vinyl craze that we're currently seeing. Just a theory. <shrug> -09 On that note has anyone found a modern reissue that sounds as good no less better than an old one? I know of one. The Steven Wilson remix of Yes "Tales from Topographic Oceans." There are parts in the remix that were literally lost and inaudible in the original. -09
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Post by donr on Aug 12, 2022 13:57:25 GMT -6
The Giles Martin Beatles re-mix is good if you'd like to hear Ringo's kick drum.
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Post by jmoose on Aug 12, 2022 14:11:57 GMT -6
The biggest mistake ever made by the label "suits" was not doing a 12" digital disk. I rolled my eyes when the CD was first released and, sadly, it turned out as bad as I feared. Wasn't there some attempt at it using video disc technology that went nowhere? Can't recall for sure. Yes. LaserDisc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDiscI remember as a kid one of my friends had one... well his family I guess. They had the original Star Wars movies... Han shot first! Pretty sure they were widescreen, mostly because I remember that picture format being a big deal in the 1980s. Fancy stuff! Everyone else had VCR's.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 12, 2022 14:52:13 GMT -6
On that note has anyone found a modern reissue that sounds as good no less better than an old one? I know of one. The Steven Wilson remix of Yes "Tales from Topographic Oceans." There are parts in the remix that were literally lost and inaudible in the original. -09 Yeah I was kind of referring to remastered/ reissues, going back and remixing with the best of old and new isn’t fair🤪
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 12, 2022 14:57:28 GMT -6
Wasn't there some attempt at it using video disc technology that went nowhere? Can't recall for sure. Yes. LaserDisc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDiscI remember as a kid one of my friends had one... well his family I guess. They had the original Star Wars movies... Han shot first! Pretty sure they were widescreen, mostly because I remember that picture format being a big deal in the 1980s. Fancy stuff! Everyone else had VCR's. Yeah, laserdisc, I think Pioneer had the patents and was at the very least the driving force behind it, that might explain why we didn’t see a big audio disk from Sony Phillips. The only real problem with laser disk for video was it had a pretty limited playing time, I remember having to change disks in the middle of a bunch of movies, they were also a bit more sensitive to scratches than CD. Now anyone know a cartridge that will track like my old Shure V15MR? That thing was the reason I could drop my first paychecks on used abused vinyl.
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Post by bossanova on Aug 12, 2022 16:07:00 GMT -6
This is akin to one of my own pet theories. I suspect that if vinyl was a 5" silver disk and you played it by loading it into a drawer, there wouldn't be the big vinyl craze that we're currently seeing. Just a theory. <shrug> -09 On that note has anyone found a modern reissue that sounds as good no less better than an old one? I guess it depends on what you mean by modern. Post 90s? I think the best reissue I own is the 40th anniversary Ziggy Stardust vinyl. It was supposedly cut all analog (cue laughter) from the original master. I have that album in just about every format and issue other than 8 track and an original UK vinyl (my original is U.S.), and it is the best, no question. The only problem is that it reliably skips at the very end of “rock ‘n’ roll suicide” because there’s a huge crescendo on the very innermost portion of the album. Led Zeppelin III from 10 years or so ago smokes the original CD but that’s because that one used significantly worse source tapes than the other releases.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 12, 2022 16:40:50 GMT -6
Vinyl is fun, getting lied to isn’t. But sheesh, the notion that it’s the best sounding format is just… wild. And I’m a fan. For me it’s much more about the tactile ritual and the commitment to listen to a side at minimum.
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Post by popmann on Aug 12, 2022 20:26:50 GMT -6
This is akin to one of my own pet theories. I suspect that if vinyl was a 5" silver disk and you played it by loading it into a drawer, there wouldn't be the big vinyl craze that we're currently seeing. Just a theory. <shrug> -09 On that note has anyone found a modern reissue that sounds as good no less better than an old one? The original US Appetite For Destruction vinyl was garbage. Far too long for a single disc. The anniversary version where they spread it over three sides sounds better than the original vinyl I had. i have a Hendrix Axis that beats literally every digital version Ive ever heard/owned….I dont have whatever the 67 UK press or whatever is considered the gold standard to compare….in listening to AP’s recent SACD, ive got to say that the reason is because the album NEEDS a crap ton of HF limiting to track…so, they make digital and its “bright and harsh”, because you know—the recording IS…. mostly, though, I don't buy reissues of antique albums. re: packaging….in the greatest irony, with modern albums, there are generally more complete liner notes on the CD booklet vs the “big” vinyl gatefold+two sleeves. And VERY often the pix are obviously blown up from the CD. Re: inner groove distortion….buy a microline/shibata stylus and align it right. Now, that doesn't solve what they have to do to the inner tracks in vinyl mastering. More limiting….less high and low extremes….but, IGD is generally mistracking on your system.
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Post by christopher on Aug 12, 2022 20:41:56 GMT -6
On that note has anyone found a modern reissue that sounds as good no less better than an old one? I think a lot of the new disks are going to be preferred to a lot of people, because folks under 30 who enjoy 60s-90s stuff probably don’t know what the originals were like. And then there’s older folks who never built that deep sonic connection, they just causally listen on streaming and consider themselves major fans. And almost everything has been touched up for streaming. One of my clients sent me down the Zepplin rabbit hole. I took in tons of streaming, needle drops on YouTube included. A lot of those needle drops are brand new vinyl and sound great even over YouTube. Then I came across an original pressing on youtube… instantly it hit me.. holy crap! THATs the sound! The sound that was intoxicating, unmistakable, the sound of smoke filled bowling alleys and crappy Ford vans with custom paint jobs, the sound of pinball machines. And as an engineer: it was totally “wrong”, bass absolutely sucked, too much noise and distortion, vocals and stuff too dynamic and jumping out at you. “Someone forgot how to use a compressor” And at first I wanted to dismiss it as total crap, then I remembered that total turd somehow took over the planet. So was it really wrong? No, my thinking that it needs to be fixed is wrong. imo anyway..
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Post by Hudsonic on Aug 13, 2022 9:37:21 GMT -6
Love listening to LP's with its relaxed sound. Sufficient detail is retrieved from the record. But LP playback is a 11 bit medium at best.
Set up is: Linn LP-12 turntable Linn Ittok arm Dynavector 20x2 cartridge QUAD 24 P tube phono preamp Shindo Aurièges tube preamp VAC Marantz 8B 40 watt vacuum tube amplifier Pro-Ac Response 2S speakers
This great set up cannot extract more detail than is on the record.
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Post by popmann on Aug 13, 2022 10:43:58 GMT -6
I also think that as a rule, a modern pressing of some old album will sound more like the tape than the original vinyl—whether aimed at cheap stylus travking in the 50s-60s….or made louder in the 70s/80s….I think a modrn reissue tends to be pressed to sound more like that tapes, call it audiophile bent, where back then they were aiming for mass consumption compromises. You can already see it—people claming some 1983 Ludwig (see loud AF) cut is better than a modern one—and to tie it back to the OP—they believe thats becuase the new one has a 192khz or DSD source.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 13, 2022 14:21:54 GMT -6
Love listening to LP's with its relaxed sound. Sufficient detail is retrieved from the record. But LP playback is a 11 bit medium at best.
Set up is: Linn LP-12 turntable Linn Ittok arm Dynavector 20x2 cartridge QUAD 24 P tube phono preamp Shindo Aurièges tube preamp VAC Marantz 8B 40 watt vacuum tube amplifier Pro-Ac Response 2S speakers
This great set up cannot extract more detail than is on the record.
I always liked the Linn, I went Sota because I love having the vacuum for those LPs with a bit of warp, plus the Souther can track pretty much anything. Besides I would think your Chi town loyalty would have made you a fan😁 Oh yeah they moved to WI maybe my Cheese head roots are my Sota loyalty 😎
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Post by jmoose on Sept 6, 2022 15:04:05 GMT -6
And the lawsuits have begun... www.stereogum.com/2197131/audiophile-label-mofi-sued-for-using-digital-in-all-analog-vinyl-reissues/news/--------- Since nobody had accused MoFi of making records that sound thin or flimsy, the issue with the company’s processes seems to be almost philosophical. In that lawsuit, the lawyers for the accuser claim that the scarcity of all-analog reissues is part of the appeal of MoFi’s marketing: “Original recording tapes age, so only a limited number of analog recordings can be produced. When defendant began using a digital mastering process in its records as opposed to purely analog, it inherently produced less valuable records — because the records were no longer of limited quantity and were not as close to the studio recording — yet still charged the higher price.”
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