rpc
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Post by rpc on Jul 28, 2022 12:20:30 GMT -6
Greetings all! That jawbreaker title means "ear/nose/throat doctor." So back in early May I suffered a sudden loss of hearing above 7kHz in one ear, accompanied by tinnitus and pain. (It finally began to clear a couple of weeks ago, thank goodness.) In the meantime I've seen my primary physician, gotten referred to a local ENT, who in turn referred me to the "big guy" in the area (Philadelphia). That guy looked at my audiology test (10db down at 8kHz) and said "This is normal! Why are you here?" I had to explain to him why that top octave was important to me. So he looked me over and said "The good news is that you probably had shingles and this will clear by itself. The bad news is that if it doesn't I have nothing to offer you."
My question for the community: does anyone know of an ENT doctor who specializes in musicians and audio engineers? Someone who'll take you seriously when your complaint has nothing to do with speech comprehension?
Thanks in advance!
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Post by svart on Jul 28, 2022 12:45:09 GMT -6
Greetings all! That jawbreaker title means "ear/nose/throat doctor." So back in early May I suffered a sudden loss of hearing above 7kHz in one ear, accompanied by tinnitus and pain. (It finally began to clear a couple of weeks ago, thank goodness.) In the meantime I've seen my primary physician, gotten referred to a local ENT, who in turn referred me to the "big guy" in the area (Philadelphia). That guy looked at my audiology test (10db down at 8kHz) and said "This is normal! Why are you here?" I had to explain to him why that top octave was important to me. So he looked me over and said "The good news is that you probably had shingles and this will clear by itself. The bad news is that if it doesn't I have nothing to offer you." My question for the community: does anyone know of an ENT doctor who specializes in musicians and audio engineers? Someone who'll take you seriously when your complaint has nothing to do with speech comprehension? Thanks in advance! I don't. I saw one decades ago and my experience was similar. Turns out that there's not a whole lot they can do if the inner ear is damaged through pressure/inflammation. Once the parts are scarred or the little "hairs" in the inner ear are damaged, they don't really grow back to normal. Sometimes if the damage isn't catastrophic the tinnitus will reduce as swelling/pressure go down and things heal but once tinnitus starts, it'll never go away fully. Having suffered with it over the years, the best thing to do is to try to keep your ENT tract from being inflammed. Antihistamines and anti-inflammatories are a must and should be done as soon as the tinnitus starts so that you can try to keep the pressure from building. |
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Post by christopher on Jul 28, 2022 15:44:05 GMT -6
Glad you are posting about this. The last few years I’ve been having serious inflammation in my ears. Warning: possible gross stuff..
The first time it happened I was cycling outdoors 3 times a week, when both ears became blocked. Some call it “glue ear”… it didn’t actually clear in both ears until 6 months later! After 2 months, I went to ENT, they offered nothing but allergy meds/prednisone which did nothing, after 4 months I worried it was permanent. Then the day they cleared up felt like landing on earth after wearing a helmet for months, all the bugs flapping their wings, felt just amazing!
Next few years, similar thing each year but I know not to worry, and it would clear up in a few weeks.
Stuff I’ve learned:
- if I can hear my own breathing like Darth Vader, then my hearing is probably just fine, it’s mucus blockage on the inside. Like a drum head stuffed with towels.
- local honey seemed to help my first episode, the theory is that it introduces micro amounts of pollen so the body doesn’t battle it. I had some a week before it cleared up during that 6 month battle. Unfortunately that local bee guy got misplaced after the fires.
- exercise does cause me to have inflammation and swelling in my inner ear. I’m pretty strong physically so I need to push myself to get results, and I guess the grunting causes pressure etc. sadly this did mean that I haven’t been exercising last few years for fear of this issue while working on projects.
I’m taking a break from projects so I can hopefully exercise more, and as soon as I went to the gym it came back. My left ear has been blocked since May. Right is clear though, so that’s ok.
Something else I’ve learned: as I exercise through the issue, the elevated heart rate and sweating seem to liquify whatever is in there so that it starts doing a “wah wah” kind of filter depending on which way I lean my head. This is good, as I know it needs to do this before the eustachian tubes open and drain. But it hasn’t drained yet, and firms back up quickly
I do hope that if I lose more weight, there will be less tissue in my neck and head to help allow the eustachian tubes to open easier and end this issue. The Flonase and Claritin I do rely on to try to prevent the flare ups.
I wish there was more expert info on this stuff
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Post by dmo on Jul 28, 2022 16:02:00 GMT -6
Don't have any specific referrals, but you might want to reach out to the Otolaryngology Departments at the major medical centers like Penn Med, Jefferson Health (assuming you're near Philly) and see if they have staff that focus on musicians (alternative would be NYC if willing to travel). A 10 dB shift from baseline meets the definition of a significant threshold shift, but you didn't say if you were down compared to a prior study or just 10dB lower at 8k without a known baseline. DoD demonstrated some improvement in blast related hearing loss/tinnitus utilizing NAC (N-acetylcysteine - antidote for acetaminophen overdose) and I think there were some trials looking at it for tinnitus in cases of prolonged/repetitive noise exposure as well - but don't think it's been tested in post infection. Acute treatment for hearing loss from presumptive viral infectious etiologies like shingles remains controversial - some docs try a combination antiviral/steroid (like valcyclovir/methylprednisolone) but studies have never conclusively demonstrated benefit and unlikely to have any impact this far out. Hope you continue to improve..
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Post by miadaudio on Jul 28, 2022 16:02:56 GMT -6
Maybe you should also seek advice from an audiologist? Greetings all! That jawbreaker title means "ear/nose/throat doctor." Being Greek this word sounds very familiar to me:) A sort-cut in Greek is "Orilas" |
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Post by drbill on Jul 28, 2022 17:21:03 GMT -6
My question for the community: does anyone know of an ENT doctor who specializes in musicians and audio engineers? Someone who'll take you seriously when your complaint has nothing to do with speech comprehension? Thanks in advance! Yes! House Ear Institute in L.A. I had a buddy who was an audiologist / drummer that used to work there. They have done very high profile musicians as I recall. houseinstitute.com |
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rpc
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Post by rpc on Jul 29, 2022 8:16:57 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies (and the good wishes) everyone!
DMO, the guy I mentioned is one of the top docs at Penn Medicine. I could try Jeff, but it's going to be on my own dime - I've used up "second opinions" from my insurance.
miadaudio, the audiologist associated with the first ENT suggested a white noise generating hearing aid to mask the tinnitus - not what I need when recording or mixing!
drbill, many many thanks for this! I hope I won't need it, as it's on the other coast, but it might help someone who's closer to them.
RPC
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Post by miadaudio on Jul 29, 2022 8:24:09 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies (and the good wishes) everyone! DMO, the guy I mentioned is one of the top docs at Penn Medicine. I could try Jeff, but it's going to be on my own dime - I've used up "second opinions" from my insurance. miadaudio, the audiologist associated with the first ENT suggested a white noise generating hearing aid to mask the tinnitus - not what I need when recording or mixing! drbill, many many thanks for this! I hope I won't need it, as it's on the other coast, but it might help someone who's closer to them. RPC I realise that this might not be of any help but a friend of mine (guitarist FWIW) was telling me that massaging the area behind the ears helps him with tinnitus. Not permanently of course but it does help him. Haven't tried it myself though and he didn't expand on what areas exactly. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 29, 2022 10:00:24 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies (and the good wishes) everyone! DMO, the guy I mentioned is one of the top docs at Penn Medicine. I could try Jeff, but it's going to be on my own dime - I've used up "second opinions" from my insurance. miadaudio, the audiologist associated with the first ENT suggested a white noise generating hearing aid to mask the tinnitus - not what I need when recording or mixing! drbill, many many thanks for this! I hope I won't need it, as it's on the other coast, but it might help someone who's closer to them. RPC OK the irony here is I’m about to give physician selection advice from a hospital bed ( had an infection that oral antibiotics were not helping with and after the scooter incident and loss of toes wasn’t going to take the chance). The “ best” and the best for you are not always the same. You need weight a multitude of factors unfortunately including location and your own health care coverage. ENT really is a very broad title, if you can find someone who works in a area that often intersects you can usually get a recommendation that will fit your needs. Another good source of good information is any AE / producers in your area. Don’t be afraid to dump someone who for one reason or another dose not feel right, but always ask your self if what they are doing is working, unfortunately often the right person is a arrogant jack ass. I have often told the story of how many have felt one of my favorite surgeons is a total ass, and yeah honestly as an administrator he is but as a surgeon he’s my jack ass. |
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Post by copperx on Jul 29, 2022 22:59:06 GMT -6
So, shingles can affect your hearing? I'm getting my shot ASAP!!!
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2022 3:41:27 GMT -6
So, shingles can affect your hearing? I'm getting my shot ASAP!!! I knew (in my part of the world) the vaccine was available for people between 70 and 79 - I didn't know it was suggested for those younger - that's interesting. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2022 3:52:12 GMT -6
Greetings all! That jawbreaker title means "ear/nose/throat doctor." So back in early May I suffered a sudden loss of hearing above 7kHz in one ear, accompanied by tinnitus and pain. (It finally began to clear a couple of weeks ago, thank goodness.) In the meantime I've seen my primary physician, gotten referred to a local ENT, who in turn referred me to the "big guy" in the area (Philadelphia). That guy looked at my audiology test (10db down at 8kHz) and said "This is normal! Why are you here?" I had to explain to him why that top octave was important to me. So he looked me over and said "The good news is that you probably had shingles and this will clear by itself. The bad news is that if it doesn't I have nothing to offer you." My question for the community: does anyone know of an ENT doctor who specializes in musicians and audio engineers? Someone who'll take you seriously when your complaint has nothing to do with speech comprehension? Thanks in advance! May I ask did you have a base line hearing test pre your shingles infection? It would establish if the 10dB dip was only present after the infection - what age group are you? People in their 60's who have had absolutely no hearing damage can have dips of 20 to 30dB at 4KHz as a matter of normal hearing loss - musician or not. The audiologist told me the brain compensates a bit in any deficient bands to try to maintain a std hearing curve. Eventually of course it's too much to compensate and really old folk often end up with hearing aids - in effect IEM's! |
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Post by keymod on Jul 30, 2022 4:44:57 GMT -6
My General Practitioner recommended a product called Lippo Flavonoid (sp?) for my tinnitus. I thought I'd try it before heading to an ENT. So far, no improvement so I'll probably be heading to an ENT appointment sometime in the fall.
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rpc
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Post by rpc on Jul 30, 2022 12:57:33 GMT -6
May I ask did you have a base line hearing test pre your shingles infection? It would establish if the 10dB dip was only present after the infection - what age group are you? People in their 60's who have had absolutely no hearing damage can have dips of 20 to 30dB at 4KHz as a matter of normal hearing loss - musician or not. The audiologist told me the brain compensates a bit in any deficient bands to try to maintain a std hearing curve. Eventually of course it's too much to compensate and really old folk often end up with hearing aids - in effect IEM's! I had not had a formal test. I test myself every year or so with an oscillator and a pair of Stax Lambda Pro headphones to see how much high end I've lost. (I'm 66.) Before this event I could hear to 16khz in both ears. During the event I could hear to 13 kHz in my left ear and 7kHz in my right. Now I can hear 14 khz left, 16kHz right (and I'm not fully recovered). The problem with standard audiology tests is that they don't go above 8kHz. Even at the worst, according to the test I was fine. (Some response to 8kHz, 100% speech comprehension.) Hence my call for a doctor who is willing to look beyond speech comprehension as a criterion for hearing loss. And yeah, sooner or later I'm going to have to retire. I'd just prefer for it to be later - I love this work! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2022 13:53:59 GMT -6
So, shingles can affect your hearing? I'm getting my shot ASAP!!! Shingles is an infection of the nerves, think of all those little nerves in your ear, ouch. |
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rpc
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Post by rpc on Jul 30, 2022 16:24:46 GMT -6
Shingles is an infection of the nerves, think of all those little nerves in your ear, ouch. "Exquisite agony" would be a good way to describe it. BTW, how are you doing? Out of the hospital yet? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2022 16:33:03 GMT -6
Shingles is an infection of the nerves, think of all those little nerves in your ear, ouch. "Exquisite agony" would be a good way to describe it. BTW, how are you doing? Out of the hospital yet? No they switched me to an oral antibiotic from Zanco and my Kidney functions are slightly off. |
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Post by dmo on Jul 30, 2022 17:59:08 GMT -6
Eric - I was on 6 weeks of a 5th generation IV cephalosporin 2 years ago after I stepped on a nail and got osteomyleitis in my foot. My renal function did not like that regimen initially but stabilized down about 25% from baseline and then fully recovered once I was off therapy completely. Hopefully your just having a transient hit as well. Hope you can get home soon.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2022 18:50:56 GMT -6
Eric - I was on 6 weeks of a 5th generation IV cephalosporin 2 years ago after I stepped on a nail and got osteomyleitis in my foot. My renal function did not like that regimen initially but stabilized down about 25% from baseline and then fully recovered once I was off therapy completely. Hopefully your just having a transient hit as well. Hope you can get home soon. Thanks, that’s what I’m hoping, the funny thing is when they switched me to an oral antibiotic I said “ let’s keep me overnight just in case I have a reaction like I did last time.” So I’m either brilliant or an absolute idiot. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2022 21:13:47 GMT -6
Eric - I was on 6 weeks of a 5th generation IV cephalosporin 2 years ago after I stepped on a nail and got osteomyleitis in my foot. My renal function did not like that regimen initially but stabilized down about 25% from baseline and then fully recovered once I was off therapy completely. Hopefully your just having a transient hit as well. Hope you can get home soon. Thanks, that’s what I’m hoping, the funny thing is when they switched me to an oral antibiotic I said “ let’s keep me overnight just in case I have a reaction like I did last time.” So I’m either brilliant or an absolute idiot. I’m brilliant, I just broke out in hives! Think Split ENZ I See Red! Damn at times it really sucks to be right |
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Post by cyrano on Jul 31, 2022 15:30:07 GMT -6
The problem with standard audiology tests is that they don't go above 8kHz. Wot? I suffer from tinnitus, like a lot of us and was tested several times over the years. Every time the test went up to 16 kHz. That's the minimum. They will go higher if you tell them you work in audio, or are a musician. Hec, even for personalised earplugs the test goes to 16 kHz. I've worn a hearing aid to counter tinnitus, it helped a lot. But it returns eventually. And I'm not up to wearing a hearing aid continually yet. |
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 1, 2022 0:01:32 GMT -6
The problem with standard audiology tests is that they don't go above 8kHz. Wot? I suffer from tinnitus, like a lot of us and was tested several times over the years. Every time the test went up to 16 kHz. That's the minimum. They will go higher if you tell them you work in audio, or are a musician. Hec, even for personalised earplugs the test goes to 16 kHz. I've worn a hearing aid to counter tinnitus, it helped a lot. But it returns eventually. And I'm not up to wearing a hearing aid continually yet. Yeah, every test I’ve had didn’t test above 8KHz and that was at a specialist audiologist to get my IEM’s moulds made. The audiologist gave me an explanation as to why when I question it as I imaged it would be 20-20KHz Maybe it depends which country you live in? I just went for another test to get new moulds in February this year and once again at a new audiologist that specialises in hearing aids and moulds for IEM’s the test only went to 8KHz. I asked why, he said we only test to 8KHz as results above that are meaningless to us! I was surprised as you sound. I’m going to phone around and see if I can find anyone who tests higher if you can get a test to 16KHz. |
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rpc
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Post by rpc on Aug 1, 2022 7:30:28 GMT -6
The problem with standard audiology tests is that they don't go above 8kHz. Wot? I suffer from tinnitus, like a lot of us and was tested several times over the years. Every time the test went up to 16 kHz. That's the minimum. They will go higher if you tell them you work in audio, or are a musician. Hec, even for personalised earplugs the test goes to 16 kHz. I've worn a hearing aid to counter tinnitus, it helped a lot. But it returns eventually. And I'm not up to wearing a hearing aid continually yet. Well, all I know is that neither my local ENT nor the specialist "downtown" tested above 8kHz. My impression is that so long as you test 100% on speech comprehension all you're going to be offered is noise masking for tinnitus. That's why I figured I'd ask here! |
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Post by cyrano on Aug 1, 2022 8:11:58 GMT -6
When I mentioned tinnitus, the first thing the lady said, was "I'll have to use another setup". I had already mentioned I was into audio and knew what a kHz is. She turned the monitor so I could see the graph. My problem area is 7-9 kHz. Some people's whistling ear is above that. A test that stops at 8 kHz might miss that.
The theory behind the treatment is that the hearing aid will amplify around the problem area. That alleviates the whistling after a few weeks. Unfortunately, the effect vanishes when you stop using the hearing aid.
Apart from the tinnitus my hearing is still OK for my age. I can hear 14 kHz clearly and 15 if it isn't very quiet. Above 16 kHz, I'm nearly deaf.
The funny thing is that I was participating in a test of "free" hearing test centers. This was the best one in my list. Some others didn't bother either, but 4 out of 5 measured up to 16 kHz. And the advice wrg to tinnitus was the same everywhere.
The background is that test and hearing aid are paid by social security. So the hearing aid shops advertise "free hearing test", just like most glasses shops advertise "free eyes test". This project tried to scan for quality of that "free stuff".
In short, you've had the "old deaf people" test, I think. :-)
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Post by christopher on Sept 7, 2022 10:40:33 GMT -6
Bumping this to give an update and some hope: So again this May after some excercise my left ear had blocked up, with reduced volume overall about -10dB+ and a roll off starting somewhere around 2-5kHz, with basically zero by 10kHz. Also screaming tinnitus up in that range, sometimes louder than anything. It was pretty bad, if I laid on my right ear and my wife talked to me, I had no idea what she’d tell me. If I heard a car, I’d have no idea which direction it was coming. I pretended it wasn’t happening, tried never to use the word “what?” but I had to about 30 times a day. I knew from prior years, ‘since my own breathing is extremely loud, my ears must be ok’. By August though, and no change, I started thinking whether a hearing aid would need to be the cure. When I put on the DT770’s I had to pan around 30%+ left to feel midrange in the center. This year, it seemed like my sinuses had cleared but my ear didn’t come back. I had some popping in June and July, but by August there was nothing. I could sense a pressure somewhere in there, but it wasn’t very different than normal. So I decided “screw it”.. went to the gym and did some cardio and heavy lifting, on the way home bought some wildflower honey. Next day I got on the bike, went out in nature and did more exercise. When I was doing cardio, my sinuses started to loosen and my left ear started making noises. Within days, and right after a bike ride, my left ear made some noises and I got some 10k back. Headphones were now 3% leaning left. Today, a few weeks later with scoops of honey everyday and excercise.. I woke up and my hearing is 100% restored. It’s really incredible, no tinnitus. Every small little nuance of high frequency is equal in both ears. Right now my left ear is listening to a wall clock ticking 6 feet away. I didn’t ever notice that clock tick before ***DO NOT PUT HONEY IN EARS! **** here’s how much honey I’ve EATen in a few weeks  |
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