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Post by OtisGreying on Jul 1, 2022 19:21:36 GMT -6
I was mixing a vocal with some units at line level and my Silver bullet neve units seemed to soften the signal too much. The vocal had a bit of neve sparkle but just felt less impactful and dynamic, didn't cut through as much.
I tried CAPI but the capis bring a sort of crunchiness into the middle of the signal (I dont know how else to describe it) I guess the distortion I didn't feel was helping the clarity of the vocal - it made me want to scoop some 1-2k when having it on there, felt less clear. So I didn't use them.
But I still want that forwardness/excitement a transformer brings. Any suggestions for something that doesn't soften/mush but still excites and brings to the front?
The best of the line-amp audition seems to be my RND 542's with no settings on - just passing through.
Anyway, what cleaner sort of units you guys feel still bring signals forward and upfront in a musical way?
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Post by EmRR on Jul 1, 2022 19:44:42 GMT -6
Try running lower levels
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Post by seawell on Jul 1, 2022 22:21:27 GMT -6
The Iron Age Audioworks Portia Street Stomp is what I reach for when that's needed. The 1:2 setting in particular brings things forward in a nice way. www.ironageaudioworks.com/pss
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 2, 2022 0:41:47 GMT -6
back off the neve circut. Also did you try the A mojo into the n? or vise versa? that can help with that just have to gain stage it right
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Post by deaconblues on Jul 2, 2022 10:16:37 GMT -6
The Iron Age Audioworks Portia Street Stomp is what I reach for when that's needed. The 1:2 setting in particular brings things forward in a nice way. www.ironageaudioworks.com/pss Do you have the stock transformers…and what are they? Also: matt@IAA what other transformers have you guys used with these and why / to what effect?
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Post by drbill on Jul 2, 2022 10:28:08 GMT -6
I was mixing a vocal with some units at line level and my Silver bullet neve units seemed to soften the signal too much. The vocal had a bit of neve sparkle but just felt less impactful and dynamic, didn't cut through as much.
First - mirror image gain and output pots. 9:00-3:00, 7:00-5:00. etc. Then turn down your gain and mirror image the output. Personally, I start at 7:00/5:00 and work up from there. Still feeling the same? Switch to A. Too punchy? Switch to A>N. Or N>A. Still not feeling it? Turn down the input into the SB. It's a very very rare time I can't get what I want between the A and N sides. Conversely, the new C color slot with the 4000 master buss is working out KILLER for me - especially if I'm looking for a more modern sound. Transformer-LESS, but a great sound nonetheless.
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Post by seawell on Jul 2, 2022 10:48:34 GMT -6
The Iron Age Audioworks Portia Street Stomp is what I reach for when that's needed. The 1:2 setting in particular brings things forward in a nice way. www.ironageaudioworks.com/pss Do you have the stock transformers…and what are they? Also: matt@IAA what other transformers have you guys used with these and why / to what effect? Mine is stock, I'm not sure what the transformers are off the top of my head. Hopefully Matt will drop by soon to fill us in!
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Post by Guitar on Jul 2, 2022 11:05:54 GMT -6
The Iron Age Audioworks Portia Street Stomp is what I reach for when that's needed. The 1:2 setting in particular brings things forward in a nice way. www.ironageaudioworks.com/pss Do you have the stock transformers…and what are they? Also: matt@IAA what other transformers have you guys used with these and why / to what effect?
Never going to speak for Matt but I am aware that they use a Cinemag part. I believe they got Cinemag to wind them something "special" that's not on the regular product sheet. Looks like it has different colored (Zebra stripe) laminations, that's kind of neat, just to look at. A couple different kinds of metal alloy, I guess, rather than just one type. Like an, uh, club sandwich... for your ears.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jul 2, 2022 12:38:59 GMT -6
@otisgreying different circuits produce different distortions. single ended will make more even order distortion, push-pull are symmetrical so they tend to have more odd order distortion products. so the circuit has a direct impact as well, though generally speaking well-behaved circuits at reasonable levels don't have really high distortion numbers. transformers produce generally asymmetrical distortion when they approach saturation, so they provide odd-order harmonic content. This is true for all transformers. they also can have parasitic losses and can even act like a simple RL high pass filter. The larger the transformer the less this effect, and the less sensitive they are to source impedance. however there's a trade off... to get better low frequency fidelity, you usually trade off high frequency response. but just like the circuit this is level dependent. So as an example API uses low-inductance, steel core transformers which sort of guides us to the mid-rangey, aggressive API sound: more transformer distortion in the low and low-mids, maybe even some low end roll off due to lower inductance. the 2520 op amp also tends to also make more odd-order harmonics as it gets driven, which adds to that bright feel. In the BA283 Neve used the primary of the transformer as an inductive load that also carries DC to the output transistor, so the transformer primary is biased and the AC rides along that. as signal increases that arrangement is going to fatten up the bass, then roll it off, then go to sad times. single ended output produces more even order, hence the fat Neve bloom sound. You can kinda start to get a feel for what to expect from different circuits based on real broad brush groups of things based on the above. hope that helps? deaconblues mostly just used our output transformers we use everywhere, which are steel core and low inductance (though not as low as an API 2503). We made a box with a bunch of vintage transformers for Ben Kane a while back, that was cool to play with. Hard to get a real A/B because they didn't match at level but definitely each had a unique waveform on the scope, for example. For the box I mainly wanted two things - quadrifilar to adjust ratios and low enough inductance to have a sound. the standard transformer we use fit the bill so in it went.
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Post by deaconblues on Jul 2, 2022 15:02:38 GMT -6
@otisgreying different circuits produce different distortions. single ended will make more even order distortion, push-pull are symmetrical so they tend to have more odd order distortion products. so the circuit has a direct impact as well, though generally speaking well-behaved circuits at reasonable levels don't have really high distortion numbers. transformers produce generally asymmetrical distortion when they approach saturation, so they provide odd-order harmonic content. This is true for all transformers. they also can have parasitic losses and can even act like a simple RL high pass filter. The larger the transformer the less this effect, and the less sensitive they are to source impedance. however there's a trade off... to get better low frequency fidelity, you usually trade off high frequency response. but just like the circuit this is level dependent. So as an example API uses low-inductance, steel core transformers which sort of guides us to the mid-rangey, aggressive API sound: more transformer distortion in the low and low-mids, maybe even some low end roll off due to lower inductance. the 2520 op amp also tends to also make more odd-order harmonics as it gets driven, which adds to that bright feel. In the BA283 Neve used the primary of the transformer as an inductive load that also carries DC to the output transistor, so the transformer primary is biased and the AC rides along that. as signal increases that arrangement is going to fatten up the bass, then roll it off, then go to sad times. single ended output produces more even order, hence the fat Neve bloom sound. You can kinda start to get a feel for what to expect from different circuits based on real broad brush groups of things based on the above. hope that helps? deaconblues mostly just used our output transformers we use everywhere, which are steel core and low inductance (though not as low as an API 2503). We made a box with a bunch of vintage transformers for Ben Kane a while back, that was cool to play with. Hard to get a real A/B because they didn't match at level but definitely each had a unique waveform on the scope, for example. For the box I mainly wanted two things - quadrifilar to adjust ratios and low enough inductance to have a sound. the standard transformer we use fit the bill so in it went. Great info! Thank you
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