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Post by svart on Jun 30, 2022 8:22:01 GMT -6
Also, I should note that the residual power supply hum/buzz we hear in the video is one of the biggest reasons I went mostly digital. My mixing console and all the outboard gear, preamps, effects, etc, might have had noise floors in the -80dB to -90dB range, but since most of it was powered from the same AC circuit, a lot of the rectified buzz was correlated. You sum a dozen outboard units, all with analog power supplies and you start to get noise floors in the -65dB range. Add in the audio tracks with their noise floors, add some compression and all the other fun stuff you do to mixes and suddenly you can sometimes hear the buzzing at -45dB to -50dB on your final mix down track. I've fought like hell to get noise down every where I can, but, like you say, there still is residual noise buildup when you connect a bunch of analog gear together. Some of that shit will drive you mad. It's certainly one of the things that tempts me to go more ITB, but I doubt I'll ever go fully. I actually like a slight amount of hiss, like you'd get from a tape machine, so I just cover up low level hums/buzzes in that!  I still use a bunch of hardware on the way in during tracking. I've gotten a lot more confident about using it this way and during editing I can get a lot of the hiss and buzz edited out. It's a win-win for me. |
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Post by seawell on Jun 30, 2022 8:26:44 GMT -6
For the couple of noisier pieces I have(Yamaha SPX 90 comes to mind) I just throw an instance of iZotope RX after it and it's no problem. The noisiest mixes I ever heard were a bunch of waves plugins that had the "analog" options turned on LOL.
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Post by 79sg on Jun 30, 2022 8:29:40 GMT -6
Maybe it's me (which is generally the case) but for years I've avoided this debate as it's really not that important to me.
I have an RND 5060 Centerpiece for many years at this point. I dig it. Like the workflow, like what it does to my mixes. Could I live without it? Sure. I can't live without water, food or shelter.
I respect everyone that can get this technical. It's fascinating and I applaud you.
ITB, OTB, hybrid.....whatever works and whatever keeps you coming back to do it again.
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Post by svart on Jun 30, 2022 8:34:20 GMT -6
For the couple of noisier pieces I have(Yamaha SPX 90 comes to mind) I just throw an instance of iZotope RX after it and it's no problem. The noisiest mixes I ever heard were a bunch of waves plugins that had the "analog" options turned on LOL. This is true. I noticed a high noise floor in a mix I was working on and found one of the waves 1176's had the analog option on that I missed turning off. It just seems to add a bunch of hiss and hum. Uggh. |
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Post by svart on Jun 30, 2022 8:36:29 GMT -6
Maybe it's me (which is generally the case) but for years I've avoided this debate as it's really not that important to me. I have an RND 5060 Centerpiece for many years at this point. I dig it. Like the workflow, like what it does to my mixes. Could I live without it? Sure. I can't live without water, food or shelter. I respect everyone that can get this technical. It's fascinating and I applaud you. ITB, OTB, hybrid.....whatever works and whatever keeps you coming back to do it again. I don't think anyone is arguing not to use what you want. Just trying to reign in some of the popular myths associated with audio production. |
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Post by 79sg on Jun 30, 2022 9:24:47 GMT -6
I get that and it wasn't my point. My point is why does it matter whether or not if it sums and why spend so much time figuring out if it does? Ever wonder if "popular myths" are intentionally created? My guess is they are and not just in audio production.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 30, 2022 10:39:35 GMT -6
Except noise and capacitive crosstalk and rf interference etc. nothing good generally! The capacitive aspect is why all the old books say to avoid pads over 40dB, use two smaller in series if needed. Most T and ladder attenuators start showing variable response at their extremes, and many hi-Z volume pots in tube preamps show treble losses at higher attenuation, compared to fancy large footprint stepped pots. The higher the channel count, the greater the losses, the more likely you run into these physical interactions as part of the color. Good design is aware and minimizes/avoids. My simple 6 channel summer, built for my own convenience rather than any definite philosophical reason other than a shorter signal path, shows a different treble rolloff point depending on how it’s output is loaded, like 1db diff at 20k. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2022 14:41:03 GMT -6
Is this where someone comes in and says “it all doesn’t matter if you don’t have a good song…”  |
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Post by drbill on Jun 30, 2022 14:54:41 GMT -6
Is this where someone comes in and says “it all doesn’t matter if you don’t have a good song…”  NO! This is where we ask if the OP has a treated room... |
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Post by svart on Jun 30, 2022 15:50:22 GMT -6
Is this where someone comes in and says “it all doesn’t matter if you don’t have a good song…” NO! This is where we ask if the OP has a treated room... "Just use your ears" |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2022 15:57:13 GMT -6
In all honesty, that’s true, though.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 30, 2022 23:08:26 GMT -6
Most of what I listen to is bootleg audience recordings. It’s about the content.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 1, 2022 1:36:51 GMT -6
NO! This is where we ask if the OP has a treated room... "Just use your ears" There was once (ages ago) this massive GS thread with a certain room treatment guru and AES presenter (I won’t name) who made the controversial assertion that there was virtually no difference worth worrying about between an M Audio interface and high end converters like Prism or Lavry. Omg …. this thread went on for miles until at about page 154 …. I thought, I wonder if anyone has asked him what he’s monitoring on. So I asked. He said, some JBL PA speakers with horns LOL …. still makes me smile to this day, it might of been a useful first question. |
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Post by svart on Jul 1, 2022 6:50:04 GMT -6
There was once (ages ago) this massive GS thread with a certain room treatment guru and AES presenter (I won’t name) who made the controversial assertion that there was virtually no difference worth worrying about between an M Audio interface and high end converters like Prism or Lavry. Omg …. this thread went on for miles until at about page 154 …. I thought, I wonder if anyone has asked him what he’s monitoring on. So I asked. He said, some JBL PA speakers with horns LOL …. still makes me smile to this day, it might of been a useful first question. The way Ethan could go on and on and on and on.. Even as a first question it probably wouldn't have changed the thread one bit, lol. |
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Post by Chad on Jul 1, 2022 6:59:45 GMT -6
There was once (ages ago) this massive GS thread with a certain room treatment guru and AES presenter (I won’t name) who made the controversial assertion that there was virtually no difference worth worrying about between an M Audio interface and high end converters like Prism or Lavry. Omg …. this thread went on for miles until at about page 154 …. I thought, I wonder if anyone has asked him what he’s monitoring on. So I asked. He said, some JBL PA speakers with horns LOL …. still makes me smile to this day, it might of been a useful first question. The way Ethan could go on and on and on and on.. Even as a first question it probably wouldn't have changed the thread one bit, lol. Was Ethan the guy who is holding a cat in his profile pic and looking like a villain from an Austin Powers sequel? 😂 |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 1, 2022 7:27:12 GMT -6
The way Ethan could go on and on and on and on.. Even as a first question it probably wouldn't have changed the thread one bit, lol. Was Ethan the guy who is holding a cat in his profile pic and looking like a villain from an Austin Powers sequel? 😂 Lol My kids forever ruined one of my favourite films, the original 80’s film “Dune” …. Toto soundtrack no less .... .... after pointing out in the main battle Gurney Halleck (Patrick Stewart) can be seen charging towards the enemy clutching the family pug !!!! I can't believe I've watched this film a dozens times before and never once noticed this ridiculous moment - what was the director David Lynch thinking Lol. |
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Post by plinker on Jul 1, 2022 10:21:38 GMT -6
There was once (ages ago) this massive GS thread with a certain room treatment guru and AES presenter (I won’t name) who made the controversial assertion that there was virtually no difference worth worrying about between an M Audio interface and high end converters like Prism or Lavry. Omg …. this thread went on for miles until at about page 154 …. I thought, I wonder if anyone has asked him what he’s monitoring on. So I asked. He said, some JBL PA speakers with horns LOL …. still makes me smile to this day, it might of been a useful first question. Did this person happen to do a null test with his interfaces to prove there wasn't a difference? |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 1, 2022 10:43:36 GMT -6
JBL PA speakers with horns Hmm, what exactly? Some of those are very highly regarded and super revealing. |
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Post by earlevel on Jul 1, 2022 11:24:09 GMT -6
There was once (ages ago) this massive GS thread with a certain room treatment guru and AES presenter (I won’t name) who made the controversial assertion that there was virtually no difference worth worrying about between an M Audio interface and high end converters like Prism or Lavry. Omg …. this thread went on for miles until at about page 154 …. I thought, I wonder if anyone has asked him what he’s monitoring on. So I asked. He said, some JBL PA speakers with horns LOL …. still makes me smile to this day, it might of been a useful first question. Did this person happen to do a null test with his interfaces to prove there wasn't a difference? I don't know the thread in question, but I assume it's this Ethan—he's very big on null testing, typically... Audio engineer claims his Null Tester settles the debate on wires |
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Post by seawell on Jul 1, 2022 11:31:50 GMT -6
The way Ethan could go on and on and on and on.. Even as a first question it probably wouldn't have changed the thread one bit, lol. Was Ethan the guy who is holding a cat in his profile pic and looking like a villain from an Austin Powers sequel? 😂 You can't trust guys with cats in their profile pic 👀 |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 1, 2022 12:16:10 GMT -6
Without getting too deep into it, that guy is a joke, desperate for attention. Tin ears and a ridiculous know it all attitude. He's been caught faking data. Ignore is my best advice.
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Post by plinker on Jul 2, 2022 22:01:40 GMT -6
Without getting too deep into it, that guy is a joke, desperate for attention. Tin ears and a ridiculous know it all attitude. He's been caught faking data. Ignore is my best advice. I don't know....Dan Worrall seems like a pretty straight-up dude.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 23:19:45 GMT -6
Without getting too deep into it, that guy is a joke, desperate for attention. Tin ears and a ridiculous know it all attitude. He's been caught faking data. Ignore is my best advice. I don't know....Dan Worrall seems like a pretty straight-up dude.
Winer, not Dan Worral. Winer faked his gearslutz ab tests for dither and converters because he believes that they all sound the same and any difference is not due to what was measured but rather in the inherent biases of the observer. |
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Post by Chad on Jul 3, 2022 12:16:38 GMT -6
I don't know....Dan Worrall seems like a pretty straight-up dude.
Winer, not Dan Worral. Winer faked his gearslutz ab tests... Well, there you go… Anybody who uses fake abs... I know I could improve my core strength and have ripped abs, but I’m not going to fake them. 😂 |
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Post by plinker on Jul 3, 2022 23:22:45 GMT -6
I don't know....Dan Worrall seems like a pretty straight-up dude.
Winer, not Dan Worral. Winer faked his gearslutz ab tests for dither and converters because he believes that they all sound the same and any difference is not due to what was measured but rather in the inherent biases of the observer. I'm sorry Dan -- I was just having fun with the ambiguity of John's post. I get that it was directed at The Winer. |
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