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Post by Quint on Apr 18, 2022 11:43:51 GMT -6
So I'm looking into ways to wirelessly mirror my main screen connected to my Mac Studio.
Apple Sidecar obviously exists, should work seemlessly, and would just require me to buy an iPad. The thing is, I'd like to not have to spend so much just to have a wireless means of screen mirroring, as a refurbished iPad Pro 12.9" is gonna be close to a minimum of $700 after tax.
Tablets are so much cheaper to buy, so those obviously interest me. Also, this would afford me the ability to get something with a larger screen than what is currently available on the largest iPad (Pro maxes at 12.9"). I've also read about a handful of battery powered monitors out there, but the reviews don't seem to be great.
Basically I just need a battery powered screen that can somehow or another be wirelessly connected with my Mac either via Bluetooth or possibly some kind of wireless dongle or some other means. However, this won't do any good if it's a buggy/laggy experience that has a bunch of latency or always has trouble connecting.
Is anybody out there using a non-iPad solution to mirror your main Mac screen?
Edit: I keep seeing Duet Display, which might be an option, but it does seem like it could maybe be a little laggy over wifi. I've never used Apple Sidecar, but is it also a little laggy when used wirelessly? If so, it may just be the case that I have to accept a little lag, regardless of what I use. I'm not sure...
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Post by svart on Apr 18, 2022 13:12:00 GMT -6
Just doing a search it looks like the least complicated way is that duet app.
Apple really wants you to buy another iPad.
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Post by anders on Apr 18, 2022 14:35:15 GMT -6
If you're in Logic, and just want to be able to press rec / play / stop, watch your levels, fine tune your monitoring while recording etc, you can also see if you're able to get by with the Logic Remote app on an old iPhone.
An upside to using a phone is that you can find a vast selection of mounting accessories etc.
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Post by Quint on Apr 18, 2022 14:46:38 GMT -6
If you're in Logic, and just want to be able to press rec / play / stop, watch your levels, fine tune your monitoring while recording etc, you can also see if you're able to get by with the Logic Remote app on an old iPhone. An upside to using a phone is that you can find a vast selection of mounting accessories etc. If I were on Logic, that might be what I would do, as, yeah, I basically just want to be able to operate the transport, maybe do some basic on/off of loops, adjust monitoring levels, etc. I'm using Luna and Reaper though. Regardless, I'd still need to buy a screen of some kind, and I'm figuring that it might as well be a screen big enough to also use as a secondary monitor at the mix position, when desired. I don't need it to be gigantic, but I'm hoping to find a solution larger than a 8" or 9" screen. 13" inches and up would be ideal.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 18, 2022 15:23:57 GMT -6
If its not super far and you don't need to use a touch screen, cheapest/dirtiest way is to get a wireless HDMI hop. Which are NOT that reliable for a long distance. But you could use one and just a normal screen.
Otherwise you're going to need another computer device either ipad or mac to do it easily.
That said, buying an old mac mini is not too much money. Just be sure to confirm compatibility with IOS that you need to do that.
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Post by Quint on Apr 18, 2022 16:56:09 GMT -6
If its not super far and you don't need to use a touch screen, cheapest/dirtiest way is to get a wireless HDMI hop. Which are NOT that reliable for a long distance. But you could use one and just a normal screen. Otherwise you're going to need another computer device either ipad or mac to do it easily. That said, buying an old mac mini is not too much money. Just be sure to confirm compatibility with IOS that you need to do that. I have looked into that wireless HDMI option and, provided I can find a decent, portable, battery powered monitor at the right size and price, I might go that way. It's not but 30 feet at most that I would need to transmit the HDMI. However, what about latency? It seems like I keep seeing that it can be a problem. As for older iPads, the problem is the cost and size. The biggest you can get is 12.9" with the iPad pro, and even a refurbished 3rd gen Pro is $700. I really don't want to spend that much. I also definitely don't want a smaller screen than that, and might even prefer a few inches bigger. Both of those things kind of rule the iPad out. So, as it currently stands my options are either: 1. Get a battery powered monitor (Asus ZenScreen ?) and link it wirelessly somehow. Apps aren't an option here, so it would have to be some kind of dongle that transmits the signal, such as the wireless HDMI suggestion. I'm open to suggestions on products that are good wireless HDMI (or other kinds of wireless transmitter) setups. Or 2. Get a tablet and link it wirelessly somehow. Apps like Duet Display could possibly work or maybe a dongle, like mentioned above, that could transmit wireless, provided that said tablet has the right kind of physical input connection, which not all of them have.
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Post by popmann on Apr 18, 2022 19:50:57 GMT -6
Why would you not just remote desktop? There are RD clients for an iPad, Windows of all varieties...I'm going to ASSume Android...
I've always gone Mac TO Windows...iOS TO Windows...Windows to Windows...but, I have a hard time imagining Apple doesn't have Remote Desktop function built into MacOS.
editing: you WOULD preferably have a laptop rather than a tablet. The tablet will WORK...but, it's...got odd scaling and touch issues...IME. vs, the laptop will be just like it's running ON the laptop--and particularly on a local network?
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Post by Quint on Apr 19, 2022 5:20:51 GMT -6
Why would you not just remote desktop? There are RD clients for an iPad, Windows of all varieties...I'm going to ASSume Android... I've always gone Mac TO Windows...iOS TO Windows...Windows to Windows...but, I have a hard time imagining Apple doesn't have Remote Desktop function built into MacOS. editing: you WOULD preferably have a laptop rather than a tablet. The tablet will WORK...but, it's...got odd scaling and touch issues...IME. vs, the laptop will be just like it's running ON the laptop--and particularly on a local network? From what I've observed, it seems like remote desktops tend to be pretty prone to latency, no? I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of a remote desktop (cost?), but all I MUST have is just a dumb screen mirror of my Mac, as I can still use my wireless mouse and keyboard for direct control of said Mac. However, if a remote desktop solution for Android tablet exists that is affordable and not prone to latency, I'm open to suggestions. Ideally, I would like to be able to use a touch screen for control of everything, so I wouldn't even have to bring a mouse/keyboard along, but that seems to be hard to achieve, as nobody I'm aware of offers that. It's either limited, as in the case of Apple's SideCar (no finger for mouse clicks), or non-existent. The reason I'm not looking at laptops is because of fans. I don't want fan noise right near where recording will be going on. An M1 MacBook would be the exception, as their fans never seem to turn on, but I'm not spending that much just to have remote control. So that's why I've generally only been looking at iPad or tablet types of solutions. Edit: Hmm... It appears that fanless non-Mac laptops do exist out there in the wild now. I need to look into this more. This may end up being a better solution than going the tablet route. www.ultrabookreview.com/6520-fanless-ultrabooks/
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Post by anders on Apr 19, 2022 6:28:43 GMT -6
If the "battery powered" part isn't essential, you could also consider testing an old iphone, use that as your control surface and interfacing point, then use a lightning to hdmi and add any old HDMI monitor. An iPhone in landscape mode should be able to provide you some real estate, I think (though I haven't bothered testing this as an extension setup so far, only Netflixing). I would power it, though.
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Post by Quint on Apr 19, 2022 7:36:03 GMT -6
If the "battery powered" part isn't essential, you could also consider testing an old iphone, use that as your control surface and interfacing point, then use a lightning to hdmi and add any old HDMI monitor. An iPhone in landscape mode should be able to provide you some real estate, I think (though I haven't bothered testing this as an extension setup so far, only Netflixing). I would power it, though. I think that's just too kludgy for what I need, and I do want battery powered. I want it to be completely portable, which means I don't want to have to power it when I'm using it and I don't want to have to connect things to one another. I just want to pick it up, take it to where I'm going to use it, and get going.
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Post by svart on Apr 19, 2022 7:41:49 GMT -6
If you're in Logic, and just want to be able to press rec / play / stop, watch your levels, fine tune your monitoring while recording etc, you can also see if you're able to get by with the Logic Remote app on an old iPhone. An upside to using a phone is that you can find a vast selection of mounting accessories etc. If I were on Logic, that might be what I would do, as, yeah, I basically just want to be able to operate the transport, maybe do some basic on/off of loops, adjust monitoring levels, etc. I'm using Luna and Reaper though. Regardless, I'd still need to buy a screen of some kind, and I'm figuring that it might as well be a screen big enough to also use as a secondary monitor at the mix position, when desired. I don't need it to be gigantic, but I'm hoping to find a solution larger than a 8" or 9" screen. 13" inches and up would be ideal. Oh you're using reaper? Why didn't you just say so? Just use the web interface from any tablet.
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Post by Quint on Apr 19, 2022 8:10:44 GMT -6
If I were on Logic, that might be what I would do, as, yeah, I basically just want to be able to operate the transport, maybe do some basic on/off of loops, adjust monitoring levels, etc. I'm using Luna and Reaper though. Regardless, I'd still need to buy a screen of some kind, and I'm figuring that it might as well be a screen big enough to also use as a secondary monitor at the mix position, when desired. I don't need it to be gigantic, but I'm hoping to find a solution larger than a 8" or 9" screen. 13" inches and up would be ideal. Oh you're using reaper? Why didn't you just say so? Just use the web interface from any tablet. I was actually aware of this, but haven't tried it yet. That being said, maybe I should provide the caveat that I "was" using Reaper. I'm trying to go all in on Luna right now, so these questions I've been asking really pertain to my desire to remotely control Luna.
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Post by anders on Apr 19, 2022 8:51:10 GMT -6
If the "battery powered" part isn't essential, you could also consider testing an old iphone, use that as your control surface and interfacing point, then use a lightning to hdmi and add any old HDMI monitor. An iPhone in landscape mode should be able to provide you some real estate, I think (though I haven't bothered testing this as an extension setup so far, only Netflixing). I would power it, though. I think that's just too kludgy for what I need, and I do want battery powered. I want it to be completely portable, which means I don't want to have to power it when I'm using it and I don't want to have to connect things to one another. I just want to pick it up, take it to where I'm going to use it, and get going. Fairs. I wouldn't choose this route either. On the scale from kludgy to expensive, I'd pick up my iPad every time (or logic remote on my phone in a pinch) for this. Just trying to save you some $$ 🙂.
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Post by Quint on Apr 19, 2022 8:59:14 GMT -6
I think that's just too kludgy for what I need, and I do want battery powered. I want it to be completely portable, which means I don't want to have to power it when I'm using it and I don't want to have to connect things to one another. I just want to pick it up, take it to where I'm going to use it, and get going. Fairs. I wouldn't choose this route either. On the scale from kludgy to expensive, I'd pick up my iPad every time (or logic remote on my phone in a pinch) for this. Just trying to save you some $$ 🙂. Appreciated. I just wish the iPad was cheaper and/or had a bigger screen.
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 19, 2022 9:19:25 GMT -6
Quint, I'm wondering a little more about what tasks you want to actually accomplish on said second battery-powered screen. If you went the iPad route, would it really have to be an iPad Pro? I mean, could you get by on a smaller screen? If you could do something like an iPad Mini, that would actually be potentially affordable. Is it to control your session from the live room when tracking yourself? Or am I totally misunderstanding your use case? Also, still too expensive, but the M1 MacBook Air actually does not even have a fan in it.
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Post by Quint on Apr 19, 2022 9:39:34 GMT -6
Quint, I'm wondering a little more about what tasks you want to actually accomplish on said second battery-powered screen. If you went the iPad route, would it really have to be an iPad Pro? I mean, could you get by on a smaller screen? If you could do something like an iPad Mini, that would actually be potentially affordable. Is it to control your session from the live room when tracking yourself? Or am I totally misunderstanding your use case? Also, still too expensive, but the M1 MacBook Air actually does not even have a fan in it. The MacBook Air would be great for what I want to do. I just don't want to spend that much. As for the iPad/tablet route, I "could" get by with a smaller screen to control transport, adjust monitoring levels, etc. for use during tracking, when away from the mix position. However, I'd like to also be able to use this as a second screen for more involved tasks when at the mix position and, in that scenario, I'd prefer to have a larger screen. It doesn't need to be huge, as I already have a large screen as my main screen. I just don't want a second screen to be tiny either. 13" to 16" would probably be fine but 9" or 10" is just smaller than I'd like to be looking at for any extended period of time. I'm actually currently looking into fanless non-Mac laptops/2 in 1 solutions. These seem to be much more affordable and, provided I can figure out how to get a wireless display feed from my Mac Studio to one, without a bunch of latency or other PITA workarounds, that may end up being the best solution for functionality, cost and screen size.
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Post by dok on Apr 19, 2022 9:59:48 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Apr 19, 2022 10:04:15 GMT -6
I'm trying to avoid spending that much and wouldn't hate a bigger screen. If I can't find a better solution, the refurb iPad Pro 12.9" is my fallback though.
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Post by Quint on Apr 19, 2022 17:35:06 GMT -6
1. www.salisonline.org/how-to-use-windows-laptop-as-a-second-monitor-for-a-mac/So this might be a simple solution. I've already tested AirPlay out with my Vizio TV, which has AirPlay built into it, and it works. You'd just need to install the 5kplayer app (or something similar) on a laptop or tablet and you should be good to go. Additionally, Airplay works over wifi, which should allow for lower latency than using a remote desktop solution that connects via the internet. Benefits: It's free and doesn't require me to install software on my Mac. Cons: It provides no control directly from said laptop or tablet. I'd still have to use my wireless keyboard/mouse to directly control the Mac. Not a big deal, but it would be nice to have it all in one device, especially if it would work via touch. Anybody heard of this 5kplayer? I keep hearing about apps being covert backdoors into someone's computer. Is this app legit? As for remote desktop solutions, the Chrome Remote Desktop sounds interesting and apparently also connects over wifi, thus not passing through the internet. All you need is to install the app on your Mac and then open up a browser on whatever decide you wish to use to remotely control the Mac. Benefits: I can actually control my Mac directly from whatever device I end up using as the remote desktop. Cons: it gives me a little bit of security concerns. This seems like the sort of thing that could be exploited. Also, I have to download software into my Mac.
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Post by Quint on Apr 22, 2022 15:45:07 GMT -6
Update:
So, I've spent a bunch of time researching all kinds of shit. I was leaning towards just getting a cheap Chromebook of some kind, and using Duet Display to do the screen mirroring, extended display, host/client control thing with my Mac Studio. Anyway, it has been hell trying to figure out which Chromebook's don't actually have a fan and/or HDD, but also do have enough power/features that I want. Even after researching this for days, I still wasn't able to come up with something I felt great about. Also, the cheaper ones seem fairly underpowered, not that I necessarily needed a high powered Chromebook to mostly just serve as a second monitor, but still. Also, anything decent was still going to cost $400 to $500.
Anyway, I've been wanting a laptop of some kind anyway to use for non-studio duties, that I could just use for whatever. One thing led to another and I got a good deal on the base model M1 MacBook Air. It was more than I wanted to spend but, I have to say, now that I've been playing around with using the MacBook Air in tandem with my Mac Studio, this is a REALLY slick setup.
The built in Screen Sharing capability makes it super easy to remotely see and control my Mac Studio screen from the MacBook Air, from anywhere in the studio. There is basically NO lag at all. Like none, and it's all done wirelessly over the same wifi network. It's like I'm still sitting right in front of my main screen, no matter where I'm at in the studio. I'm very impressed by this. I'm already thinking of other possibilities that I can use this for, beyond what I was already considering.
The Screen Mirror/Extend Desktop capability, for when I just want to use the MacBook Air as a secondary screen at the mix position, is also done completely wirelessly and has very little lag. Very nice.
I also gave Universal Control a try. It also works seamlessly and with no lag. The keyboard/trackpad on the MacBook Air works just fine controlling the Mac Studio and the keyboard/mouse tied to the Mac Studio also works just fine controlling the MacBook Air. I can see where I would use Universal Control on occasion, though not as much as the two scenarios mentioned above.
Also, it will be nice to have a second Mac as a backup if the Mac Studio ever goes down. I'm also imagining I might use the MacBook Air as a testbed for trying out software or OS updates before doing so on the Mac Studio. The MacBook Air might also work for a little bit of mobile recording on occasion, as it also has TB and would have no problem connecting to my Apollo.
Anyway, it was more than I wanted to spend, but I think I'm pretty happy with biting the bullet. This will be a pretty sweet combo between both of these Macs.
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Post by christopher on Apr 22, 2022 20:28:28 GMT -6
Congratulations! I tried to figure this out last year and gave up after a few weeks of scratching my head and watching too many YouTube videos. My music PC is a DIY win10 build. I wanted to have full control from another room (iPad or MBP), while processing all on the main PC.
My idea was: super powerful PC behind the scenes, quiet Mac product running video and keyboard/mouse. That way I could track if I want to next to my controls and still have full power over everything.
In today’s tech, should be easy right?
I couldn’t find a great solution. I found some that can maybe go from PC to Apple, but not the other way around. Which is too bad!
It would be such a wonderful thing to have remote PC without lag: the project stays on the same hard drive, don’t have to cobble together a similar app and plugin list on both machines, etc.
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Post by Quint on Apr 22, 2022 20:46:13 GMT -6
Congratulations! I tried to figure this out last year and gave up after a few weeks of scratching my head and watching too many YouTube videos. My music PC is a DIY win10 build. I wanted to have full control from another room, while processing all on the main PC. My idea was: super powerful PC behind the scenes, quiet Mac product running video and keyboard/mouse. That way I could track if I want to next to my controls and still have full power over everything. In today’s tech, should be easy right? I couldn’t find a great solution. I found some that can use PC to Apple, but not the other way around. Which is too bad! It would be such a wonderful thing to have remote PC without lag: the project stays on the same hard drive, don’t have to cobble together a similar app and plugin list on both machines, etc. I would look at Duet Display, if you haven't already. Since you said you tried to do this last year, you might not be aware of the recent upgrades they've made. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to achieve, I believe Duet Display will do what you want. Duet Display was totally what I was gonna use before I just decided to go all in on Mac. I didn't really research it, but I would also guess that there is a similar sort of turnkey solution in the PC world that exists within Windows, that is probably just about as slick as I'm now achieving with my two Mac solution. If not Duet Display, there are also other VNC type apps that should do the trick to allow you to remote desktop in. I have a diy Win 10 PC myself. I was gonna be in the exact same boat as you before I decided to go Mac.
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Post by christopher on Apr 23, 2022 12:50:50 GMT -6
Oh wow, awesome! I think when I saw it before the USB connection was well regarged, but there was no feedback about the pay for wireless option. I'm going to check it out for sure now!
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 25, 2022 7:59:37 GMT -6
Update: So, I've spent a bunch of time researching all kinds of shit. I was leaning towards just getting a cheap Chromebook of some kind, and using Duet Display to do the screen mirroring, extended display, host/client control thing with my Mac Studio. Anyway, it has been hell trying to figure out which Chromebook's don't actually have a fan and/or HDD, but also do have enough power/features that I want. Even after researching this for days, I still wasn't able to come up with something I felt great about. Also, the cheaper ones seem fairly underpowered, not that I necessarily needed a high powered Chromebook to mostly just serve as a second monitor, but still. Also, anything decent was still going to cost $400 to $500. Anyway, I've been wanting a laptop of some kind anyway to use for non-studio duties, that I could just use for whatever. One thing led to another and I got a good deal on the base model M1 MacBook Air. It was more than I wanted to spend but, I have to say, now that I've been playing around with using the MacBook Air in tandem with my Mac Studio, this is a REALLY slick setup. The built in Screen Sharing capability makes it super easy to remotely see and control my Mac Studio screen from the MacBook Air, from anywhere in the studio. There is basically NO lag at all. Like none, and it's all done wirelessly over the same wifi network. It's like I'm still sitting right in front of my main screen, no matter where I'm at in the studio. I'm very impressed by this. I'm already thinking of other possibilities that I can use this for, beyond what I was already considering. The Screen Mirror/Extend Desktop capability, for when I just want to use the MacBook Air as a secondary screen at the mix position, is also done completely wirelessly and has very little lag. Very nice. I also gave Universal Control a try. It also works seamlessly and with no lag. The keyboard/trackpad on the MacBook Air works just fine controlling the Mac Studio and the keyboard/mouse tied to the Mac Studio also works just fine controlling the MacBook Air. I can see where I would use Universal Control on occasion, though not as much as the two scenarios mentioned above. Also, it will be nice to have a second Mac as a backup if the Mac Studio ever goes down. I'm also imagining I might use the MacBook Air as a testbed for trying out software or OS updates before doing so on the Mac Studio. The MacBook Air might also work for a little bit of mobile recording on occasion, as it also has TB and would have no problem connecting to my Apollo. Anyway, it was more than I wanted to spend, but I think I'm pretty happy with biting the bullet. This will be a pretty sweet combo between both of these Macs. Congrats, Quint! I know it was quite a road of research and headaches to get where you are now, but I'm so glad you've got something that's solid and WORKS for your workflow. It sounds like a really nice setup.
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Post by Quint on Apr 25, 2022 8:57:47 GMT -6
Update: So, I've spent a bunch of time researching all kinds of shit. I was leaning towards just getting a cheap Chromebook of some kind, and using Duet Display to do the screen mirroring, extended display, host/client control thing with my Mac Studio. Anyway, it has been hell trying to figure out which Chromebook's don't actually have a fan and/or HDD, but also do have enough power/features that I want. Even after researching this for days, I still wasn't able to come up with something I felt great about. Also, the cheaper ones seem fairly underpowered, not that I necessarily needed a high powered Chromebook to mostly just serve as a second monitor, but still. Also, anything decent was still going to cost $400 to $500. Anyway, I've been wanting a laptop of some kind anyway to use for non-studio duties, that I could just use for whatever. One thing led to another and I got a good deal on the base model M1 MacBook Air. It was more than I wanted to spend but, I have to say, now that I've been playing around with using the MacBook Air in tandem with my Mac Studio, this is a REALLY slick setup. The built in Screen Sharing capability makes it super easy to remotely see and control my Mac Studio screen from the MacBook Air, from anywhere in the studio. There is basically NO lag at all. Like none, and it's all done wirelessly over the same wifi network. It's like I'm still sitting right in front of my main screen, no matter where I'm at in the studio. I'm very impressed by this. I'm already thinking of other possibilities that I can use this for, beyond what I was already considering. The Screen Mirror/Extend Desktop capability, for when I just want to use the MacBook Air as a secondary screen at the mix position, is also done completely wirelessly and has very little lag. Very nice. I also gave Universal Control a try. It also works seamlessly and with no lag. The keyboard/trackpad on the MacBook Air works just fine controlling the Mac Studio and the keyboard/mouse tied to the Mac Studio also works just fine controlling the MacBook Air. I can see where I would use Universal Control on occasion, though not as much as the two scenarios mentioned above. Also, it will be nice to have a second Mac as a backup if the Mac Studio ever goes down. I'm also imagining I might use the MacBook Air as a testbed for trying out software or OS updates before doing so on the Mac Studio. Â The MacBook Air might also work for a little bit of mobile recording on occasion, as it also has TB and would have no problem connecting to my Apollo. Anyway, it was more than I wanted to spend, but I think I'm pretty happy with biting the bullet. This will be a pretty sweet combo between both of these Macs. Congrats, Quint! I know it was quite a road of research and headaches to get where you are now, but I'm so glad you've got something that's solid and WORKS for your workflow. It sounds like a really nice setup. Thanks man. It has been a lot of research. Many iterations of the plan before finally getting to where I'm at, but that's how this stuff usually goes. In any case, I'm not quite all the way there. I still have to figure out my backup plan. I'm sort of part of the way there, but I'm still trying to flesh out what the ultimate backup plan will be. I'm kicking around Time Machine or Chronosync, plus Backblaze and also other drives that I manually use to clone and backup my OS drive and audio drive every so often, respectively. So I still may need to start a thread on that, or at least piggy back on one that already exists.
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