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Post by stratboy on Mar 18, 2022 19:18:15 GMT -6
www.westernelectric.com/expandWe make electron tubes Western Electric is assessing plans to expand tube operations. Our latest factory is equipped to handle production of multiple tube types and, in light of recent worldwide events, we believe our capacity to do so may become vital to the industry. While we continue to meet steady demand for the type 300B triode, we want to hear from you regarding other popular tube types. Click below. Fill the form. After you share your thoughts, be sure to share this page with others. Western Electric has made quality tubes for over 100 years. Here’s to the next 100. They are actually looking at this. Fill out the form and tell them what you would like.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 18, 2022 20:00:14 GMT -6
Have you seen their prices? Seriously it would be great, but honestly if they start making ac701’s or VF14 the price of NOS would probably go up!
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Post by stratboy on Mar 18, 2022 20:06:22 GMT -6
Far as I know, they only make a 300 tube now. Posters to the thread at TDPRI, where I got this, said the WE 300 is expensive, but about the same price as the Chinese equivalent. I gather the 300 is a tricky tube to make. Perhaps bowie would comment? As a guitar player and owner of multiple tube amps (and a lovely LaChapelle tube pre), I do think it would be good to make tubes in America again. So, if you agree, let’s encourage WE to do so. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Mar 18, 2022 20:06:33 GMT -6
Have you seen their prices? Seriously it would be great, but honestly if they start making ac701’s or VF14 the price of NOS would probably go up! 1500 to much for a 300b?  ?  |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 18, 2022 20:11:53 GMT -6
Far as I know, they only make a 300 tube now. Posters to the thread at TDPRI, where I got this, said the WE 300 is expensive, but about the same price as the Chinese equivalent. I gather the 300 is a tricky tube to make. Perhaps bowie would comment? As a guitar player and owner of multiple tube amps (and a lovely LaChapelle tube pre), I do think it would be good to make tubes in America again. So, if you agree, let’s encourage WE to do so. The other thing is they haven’t been making them for over a hundred years, they made them a 100 years ago, stopped about 1970 and started again around 2020 so really they have about 50 years of making them ! |
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Post by stratboy on Mar 18, 2022 20:12:53 GMT -6
Lol. I didn’t know they were that much. But hey, the 300b is used in the high-end audio market. Where they pay thousands of $$$ for an IEC cable 🙄
If they start making 12AX7s for the MI market, the price would probably come down quite a bit. How much? Who knows? But you’d have to get down in the $15 range for a replacement tube. OEM half that or more.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 18, 2022 20:14:19 GMT -6
Far as I know, they only make a 300 tube now. Posters to the thread at TDPRI, where I got this, said the WE 300 is expensive, but about the same price as the Chinese equivalent. I gather the 300 is a tricky tube to make. Perhaps bowie would comment? As a guitar player and owner of multiple tube amps (and a lovely LaChapelle tube pre), I do think it would be good to make tubes in America again. So, if you agree, let’s encourage WE to do so. The other thing is they haven’t been making them for over a hundred years, they made them a 100 years ago, stopped about 1970 and started again around 2020 so really they have about 50 years of making them ! Okay. They’re overpriced and liars to boot. I guess you won’t be filling out the form 😊 We don’t need no stinkin’ tubes, anyway. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 18, 2022 21:46:28 GMT -6
Phhhfffftttt.
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Post by howie on Mar 18, 2022 23:46:50 GMT -6
Thanks for the link. I did submit - to their questionnaire the tubes I might want... What's the worse that can happen - Tube spam? Or maybe - it's really an imposter sight connected to the "Your Warranty has expired" people that never fail to keep me up to date about my non existent expired warranties.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 19, 2022 13:15:57 GMT -6
Talking to some old timers and audiophiles this AM reminded me of why from our perspective this may be a fool’s errand.
First understand this Western Electric Export Company is WE in name only, they hold no other assets from the original division of what is now AT&T. Most of the intellectual property is telco related and this new company in Georgia has nothing to do with what made your old dial phone or that old digital switch in Chicago.
The other thing and this is a biggie, most of the equipment used to make the big power tubes is pretty useless in making the smaller tubes. They would know this so not limiting the requests for tubes they could make with what they have strikes many as more of a publicity stunt. One dealer who has dealt with these guys has nothing but nice things to say about these guys, the only exception being delusions of grandeur.
Understand the kind of Audiophile these guys deal with are a little strange (very low wattage tube guys) I have built some TAD and Radian based systems for these guys who have no problem paying 8k for a pair of $500 Radians a $200 version of the stock Radian X over with nicer caps and inductors and a pretty straight forward cabinet ( I have charged $3K).
They don’t have any dealer or distribution in the pro world, OK either of the tubes we want no need a new version of would probably require at least $1 million dollar investment by a company that has no relationship with anyone in the pro arena?
If they did it it would be the audio Equivalent of Field of dreams.
If they really want to be part of our world the smart thing would be to hire EMRR as a consultant who could probably dig through the old WE archives and find a couple of cool pieces that they could establish themselves with.
Hell they could build a cool DA, talk about how digital audio started with the old WE ( the first digital telco switch that wasn’t installed in a Bell System but by GTE) and they could sell it to both Consumers and pros.
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Post by bowie on Mar 19, 2022 13:29:09 GMT -6
Far as I know, they only make a 300 tube now. Posters to the thread at TDPRI, where I got this, said the WE 300 is expensive, but about the same price as the Chinese equivalent. I gather the 300 is a tricky tube to make. Perhaps bowie would comment? As a guitar player and owner of multiple tube amps (and a lovely LaChapelle tube pre), I do think it would be good to make tubes in America again. So, if you agree, let’s encourage WE to do so. While it's larger and requires a bit more work than most, the real reason they're able to charge what they do is who they are selling them to. The HiFi crowd use the 300B and they are known for paying inflated prices ($1,000 power cables, $300 capacitors, etc). I've no doubt it's expensive for WE to make a 300B with US labor, factory space, etc. But, I would venture to guess the market they are selling to and the lack of competition in the high-end bracket allows for much of that pricing. The reason they would start making other tubes right now (my assumption) is that there's becoming room to sell more high-end tubes. Some of the prices being paid are absurd because there's this unfounded fear that we won't be able to get tubes anymore. Before long, China will ramp up production and things will settle down. But, the panic buying that Americans love to do is going to make it more painful. Because people are showing that they'll spend ridiculous amounts, the prices will never be the same, even when China makes up for the lack of Russian production. The main point of interest for me, as far as WE goes, is if they will be able to compete with the NOS market. IE; offer high quality 12AX7s, 6072s, etc, with pricing similar to what NOS are going for. Making tubes as good as 1950-70's era is going to be a lot harder than most realize though. A LOT of money used to be put into tube R&D. Much of the knowledge is gone and I don't see anyone willing to invest what it would take to get back to that point. Not when the market for tubes is so small now. |
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Post by Ward on Mar 19, 2022 16:05:11 GMT -6
Regardless, email sent.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 19, 2022 16:09:03 GMT -6
Far as I know, they only make a 300 tube now. Posters to the thread at TDPRI, where I got this, said the WE 300 is expensive, but about the same price as the Chinese equivalent. I gather the 300 is a tricky tube to make. Perhaps bowie would comment? As a guitar player and owner of multiple tube amps (and a lovely LaChapelle tube pre), I do think it would be good to make tubes in America again. So, if you agree, let’s encourage WE to do so. While it's larger and requires a bit more work than most, the real reason they're able to charge what they do is who they are selling them to. The HiFi crowd use the 300B and they are known for paying inflated prices ($1,000 power cables, $300 capacitors, etc). I've no doubt it's expensive for WE to make a 300B with US labor, factory space, etc. But, I would venture to guess the market they are selling to and the lack of competition in the high-end bracket allows for much of that pricing. The reason they would start making other tubes right now (my assumption) is that there's becoming room to sell more high-end tubes. Some of the prices being paid are absurd because there's this unfounded fear that we won't be able to get tubes anymore. Before long, China will ramp up production and things will settle down. But, the panic buying that Americans love to do is going to make it more painful. Because people are showing that they'll spend ridiculous amounts, the prices will never be the same, even when China makes up for the lack of Russian production. The main point of interest for me, as far as WE goes, is if they will be able to compete with the NOS market. IE; offer high quality 12AX7s, 6072s, etc, with pricing similar to what NOS are going for. Making tubes as good as 1950-70's era is going to be a lot harder than most realize though. A LOT of money used to be put into tube R&D. Much of the knowledge is gone and I don't see anyone willing to invest what it would take to get back to that point. Not when the market for tubes is so small now. I am more worried they will simply take the rep they built in the audiophile world and will simply have some Chinese OEM stamp WE on 12ax7s. |
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 19, 2022 16:24:07 GMT -6
While it's larger and requires a bit more work than most, the real reason they're able to charge what they do is who they are selling them to. The HiFi crowd use the 300B and they are known for paying inflated prices ($1,000 power cables, $300 capacitors, etc). I've no doubt it's expensive for WE to make a 300B with US labor, factory space, etc. But, I would venture to guess the market they are selling to and the lack of competition in the high-end bracket allows for much of that pricing. The reason they would start making other tubes right now (my assumption) is that there's becoming room to sell more high-end tubes. Some of the prices being paid are absurd because there's this unfounded fear that we won't be able to get tubes anymore. Before long, China will ramp up production and things will settle down. But, the panic buying that Americans love to do is going to make it more painful. Because people are showing that they'll spend ridiculous amounts, the prices will never be the same, even when China makes up for the lack of Russian production. The main point of interest for me, as far as WE goes, is if they will be able to compete with the NOS market. IE; offer high quality 12AX7s, 6072s, etc, with pricing similar to what NOS are going for. Making tubes as good as 1950-70's era is going to be a lot harder than most realize though. A LOT of money used to be put into tube R&D. Much of the knowledge is gone and I don't see anyone willing to invest what it would take to get back to that point. Not when the market for tubes is so small now. I am more worried they will simply take the rep they built in the audiophile world and will simply have some Chinese OEM stamp WE on 12ax7s. I respect your healthy skepticism, but their request refers specifically to building additional tubes in their factory in Rossville Georgia, " Our latest factory is equipped to handle production of multiple tube types and, in light of recent worldwide events, we believe our capacity to do so may become vital to the industry." Any effort on their behalf to pass off Chinese OEM tubes as American would crash and burn on liftoff. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 19, 2022 16:59:55 GMT -6
I am more worried they will simply take the rep they built in the audiophile world and will simply have some Chinese OEM stamp WE on 12ax7s. I respect your healthy skepticism, but their request refers specifically to building additional tubes in their factory in Rossville Georgia, " Our latest factory is equipped to handle production of multiple tube types and, in light of recent worldwide events, we believe our capacity to do so may become vital to the industry." Any effort on their behalf to pass off Chinese OEM tubes as American would crash and burn on liftoff. Oh I know, but here is what often happens, you send out a request like this, you realize that across the whole spectrum of audio their is demand for a quality 12ax7. Great than you do a very careful study of what it would cost to actually build them realize the investment is just to steep but man the demand is there. Then one of 2 things happens, 1 you get bought ( I’m sure that WE copyright didn’t come cheap) or someone inside already says man we could make a killing on Chinese 12ax7’s ! Ask Bowie we have seen this before! |
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 19, 2022 23:57:05 GMT -6
I respect your healthy skepticism, but their request refers specifically to building additional tubes in their factory in Rossville Georgia, " Our latest factory is equipped to handle production of multiple tube types and, in light of recent worldwide events, we believe our capacity to do so may become vital to the industry." Any effort on their behalf to pass off Chinese OEM tubes as American would crash and burn on liftoff. Oh I know, but here is what often happens, you send out a request like this, you realize that across the whole spectrum of audio their is demand for a quality 12ax7. Great than you do a very careful study of what it would cost to actually build them realize the investment is just to steep but man the demand is there. Then one of 2 things happens, 1 you get bought ( I’m sure that WE copyright didn’t come cheap) or someone inside already says man we could make a killing on Chinese 12ax7’s ! Ask Bowie we have seen this before! Is the investment definitely too steep? I personally wouldn’t know. But Western Electric already has the facility, manufacturing expertise, and maybe even the financing in place. |
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Post by robschnapf on Mar 20, 2022 6:34:06 GMT -6
Hopefully they are well capitalized. I would expect they are.
Regardless, email sent
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Post by bowie on Mar 20, 2022 15:21:51 GMT -6
I respect your healthy skepticism, but their request refers specifically to building additional tubes in their factory in Rossville Georgia, " Our latest factory is equipped to handle production of multiple tube types and, in light of recent worldwide events, we believe our capacity to do so may become vital to the industry." Any effort on their behalf to pass off Chinese OEM tubes as American would crash and burn on liftoff. Oh I know, but here is what often happens, you send out a request like this, you realize that across the whole spectrum of audio their is demand for a quality 12ax7. Great than you do a very careful study of what it would cost to actually build them realize the investment is just to steep but man the demand is there. Then one of 2 things happens, 1 you get bought ( I’m sure that WE copyright didn’t come cheap) or someone inside already says man we could make a killing on Chinese 12ax7’s ! Ask Bowie we have seen this before! Yes, we've seen respectable names branded on low quality tubes. It's happening right now and I could rant about this but prefer not to make enemies. I've casually observed WE for a number of years and their intentions don't seem to be in line with that. They've been going slow and it seems they'd rather run out of stock than compromise anything they do. Which is good. Side note to this whole thing, there was a company in the UK not long ago that began making tubes once again on the old Mullard Blackburn UK site. They had skilled engineers working on them and, reportedly, several million was invested. The tubes went to market in 2009. The company folded in 2009. Unfortunately, they just couldn't get the design dialed in. We tend to think it should be easy to recreate 1950s tech but it's unlike resistors and caps, which have been refined and developed for decades with a lot of money behind them. |
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Post by stratboy on Mar 20, 2022 16:11:39 GMT -6
Thanks for your knowledgeable comments, Bowie.
My thought on the UKtube manufacturer is that 2009 was a lousy time to come to market anywhere worldwide. It was the deepest part of the Great Recession.
I’m encouraged that the WE Georgia factory has been in business for several years now. I hope that if they decide to raise some capital and expand, they can pull it off.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 20, 2022 16:27:05 GMT -6
What exactly do you mean by that?
FWIW, my uncle Ralph was a shop forman for one of WE's factories in Chicago. Gave me my first micrometer and my first raw (commecial) diamond crystal.
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