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Post by wiz on Feb 24, 2022 18:08:11 GMT -6
Here is a quick short section of a song I am working on atm. Its only a verse and chorus to listen to. Frozen TestWhat you are listening to is the tracking mix at this point... no verbs or delays.. just basic EQ, there isn't even compression on it. This is my starting point to mix from, throw up the faders and just do a quick eq to see how everything is sitting. What should you listen for...? I am testing to see how much of a difference something makes and people who are not connected to the process how much they notice, and whether the differences I might hear are of any value, worth...... what so ever. Now, there is no trickery here... Don't think I am trying to trip you up, I am not... its more of an interesting thing for me, as I did this test for myself and was surprised at the result. It will be an interesting discussion when the reveal comes... me thinks.... So if you have a minute, please have a listen and make a quick comment...it doesn't matter if you listen on your phone, studio monitors etc ... it will all be valid to me cheers Wiz |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 24, 2022 18:16:43 GMT -6
Cool, wiz . Not clear to me what you're getting at or looking for but sounds good for a faders up tracking mix. IMHO, the drums sound too processed at this point. Like SSD5 was used or something. Sounds like it'll be a good tune though down the line. Edit: should have mentioned the vocal sounded nice and upfront. Good tone. (MBP speakers.) |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 24, 2022 18:33:32 GMT -6
Listened on phone, in comparison to how perfect your final mixes sound, this does sound a little rough, levels, should be tweaked etc.
I thought the lead Vox had more lower mids then you typically have?
Am wondering if the wild( unknown) card is a cheaper mike, pre or maybe you didn’t use the bricasti as comfort verb while tracking ?
Also, wondered if guitar parts were real amp mikes? They don’t sound bad : I just thought a little different than other tracks from you !
Enjoyed the track: keep on that !
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Post by Ward on Feb 24, 2022 18:43:20 GMT -6
wiz, who did you sell your soul to, to get that kick sound? Man, that is perfect for this kind of song.
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Post by reddirt on Feb 24, 2022 19:08:58 GMT -6
It pretty cool Wiz, in the interests of serving the song my opinion is the snare while a good sound , could drop a few db otherwise it's a good mix.
Your vocal will then take a stronger stage and while it has a likeable unaffected (as opposed to effected) ness, needs re doing with better pitch and overall strength.
Thank you for this, there's obvious strong potential.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by wiz on Feb 24, 2022 19:27:51 GMT -6
wiz , who did you sell your soul to, to get that kick sound? Man, that is perfect for this kind of song. he he he You know, I went to the Xroads whilst in the USA for the RGO get together... man was it a disappointment.... cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Feb 24, 2022 19:49:54 GMT -6
Open the image below...couldnt post it for some reason... session imageWont drag this on... thanks for having a listen and commenting ... What were you listening to, well its as I described... but..... its actually 3 different mixes, and it switches between them. I was testing out the UAD SSL Channel, and the UAD API Vision Channel Strip, against my normal EQ which is the UAD Neve 1084. I mixed the 3 types, all from scratch, quickly, and they came out so similar I found it startling. So I put them all in a project and and edited it (as in the photo) so it switched between the three... I ended up in the same spot using three different eq's and workflows... LOL.... Here is the finished tune...well where its at atm.. I am messing about with drum sounds in Superior Drummer 3 as I just bought the Fields Of Rock SDX and these drums in this version are a hybrid of some of those and some from the Standard sounds that come with SD3 This mix has Bricasti, Capitol Chambers, Ozone 9, UAD compression etc etc etc as I would normally with a finished mix.... as well as the instruments added after the one you first listened to .. eg Backing Vox etc... Interesting eh? Oh this mix, the finished Frozen... this is the Neve 1084 UAD EQ, just with added comps, verb, ozone etc....Interestingly I found the API Vision Channel strip really easy to work with, mainly because of the filters on it...though the SSL had filters, it was more fiddly cramped harder to read... I will continue using the Neve 1084 for workflow reasons, though I am sure the API will get used at some point. Frozen Finished MixNote the first guitar note is cut off...dam effects... thanks again cheers Wiz |
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Post by svart on Feb 25, 2022 8:01:32 GMT -6
Ok here's my thoughts. I listened to the first version first and then the second version after which may have affected my opinions.
I much prefered the drums from the first version. They felt earthy and soulful to me like the song does. The second version's drums feel too boing-y and *gasp* too polished for the soul of the song. If there is ONE thing about the final mix that bothers me, it's that the snare stands out too much.
I like the guitars from the second version. They don't sound much different, but they stand out a little more. Seems like you pulled a little bottom off of them?
I like the vocals from the second version, they don't sound much different but they stand out from the mix more and are more intelligible to me.
I'm having trouble with the bass. I like the dryness of the first version but it doesn't stand out enough. The second version seems almost too "weighty" to me, but since it's on the kick beat and the kick bottom is greatly increased, it's hard to determine how much the bass and how much of the kick are affecting each other.
Beautiful song nonetheless.
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Post by Ward on Feb 25, 2022 8:56:38 GMT -6
wiz I'm with svart on a couple of those points. We have a great interactive family here . . . maybe get some contributions? I've contributed to quite a few projects from members here. Maybe get someone else to contribute bass? Just a suggestion, don't be mad at me. I love your stuff and could listen to you sing all day, just like donr
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Post by wiz on Feb 25, 2022 16:47:18 GMT -6
Ok here's my thoughts. I listened to the first version first and then the second version after which may have affected my opinions. I much prefered the drums from the first version. They felt earthy and soulful to me like the song does. The second version's drums feel too boing-y and *gasp* too polished for the soul of the song. If there is ONE thing about the final mix that bothers me, it's that the snare stands out too much. I like the guitars from the second version. They don't sound much different, but they stand out a little more. Seems like you pulled a little bottom off of them? I like the vocals from the second version, they don't sound much different but they stand out from the mix more and are more intelligible to me. I'm having trouble with the bass. I like the dryness of the first version but it doesn't stand out enough. The second version seems almost too "weighty" to me, but since it's on the kick beat and the kick bottom is greatly increased, it's hard to determine how much the bass and how much of the kick are affecting each other. Beautiful song nonetheless. Thanks for commenting bud... he he he.. Boingy.... that made me think back to the first time I heard a kick drum solo'd in a studio... it was EXACTLY like the sound of a basketball being bounced on a wooden court floor... I couldn't believe it .... LOL... not my favourite sound... I probably overcooked the drums, as I was trying out the new Fields of Rock Expansion from Toontrack for SD3, I will definitely take your points and go back and have a look at them...no doubt I mixed them too loud. The bass, might be being (faux) boosted by the kick drum, I think from memory I added the sort of sub mic for the kick drum in that mix, which I don't normally do... I noticed that when I listened in the car last night on the way to poker.... will check. What did you think about me coming up with essentially with the same mix using three different plug in approaches...8)....weird huh? I guess it shows a couple of things, workflow probably matters more to me than the specifics of one particular plug in EQ at that level....and I like a particular sound. thanks again mate Cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Feb 25, 2022 16:51:33 GMT -6
wiz I'm with svart on a couple of those points. We have a great interactive family here . . . maybe get some contributions? I've contributed to quite a few projects from members here. Maybe get someone else to contribute bass? Just a suggestion, don't be mad at me. I love your stuff and could listen to you sing all day, just like donr Hey my brother from UP OVER ( me down under, see what I did there?) I have had fun, when I have put tracks up for people to mix, that's always been cool. Thats a really cool idea... the contribute part... I actually have been going round and round wondering about that.. To be perfectly honest...Its kinda hard though, cause I feel bad if someone contributes something and I don't use it, and also I would like to pay people for their time, but I simply don't have the budget...I am losing money as it is on my original stuff....I don't even get Bob O to master anymore..I just can't afford it. cheers Wiz |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 25, 2022 17:02:25 GMT -6
Recording: definitely a labour of love.
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Post by drumsound on Feb 27, 2022 20:29:01 GMT -6
Ok here's my thoughts. I listened to the first version first and then the second version after which may have affected my opinions. I much prefered the drums from the first version. They felt earthy and soulful to me like the song does. The second version's drums feel too boing-y and *gasp* too polished for the soul of the song. If there is ONE thing about the final mix that bothers me, it's that the snare stands out too much. I like the guitars from the second version. They don't sound much different, but they stand out a little more. Seems like you pulled a little bottom off of them? I like the vocals from the second version, they don't sound much different but they stand out from the mix more and are more intelligible to me. I'm having trouble with the bass. I like the dryness of the first version but it doesn't stand out enough. The second version seems almost too "weighty" to me, but since it's on the kick beat and the kick bottom is greatly increased, it's hard to determine how much the bass and how much of the kick are affecting each other. Beautiful song nonetheless. Thanks for commenting bud... he he he.. Boingy.... that made me think back to the first time I heard a kick drum solo'd in a studio... it was EXACTLY like the sound of a basketball being bounced on a wooden court floor... I couldn't believe it .... LOL... not my favourite sound... I probably overcooked the drums, as I was trying out the new Fields of Rock Expansion from Toontrack for SD3, I will definitely take your points and go back and have a look at them...no doubt I mixed them too loud. The bass, might be being (faux) boosted by the kick drum, I think from memory I added the sort of sub mic for the kick drum in that mix, which I don't normally do... I noticed that when I listened in the car last night on the way to poker.... will check. What did you think about me coming up with essentially with the same mix using three different plug in approaches...8)....weird huh? I guess it shows a couple of things, workflow probably matters more to me than the specifics of one particular plug in EQ at that level....and I like a particular sound. thanks again mate Cheers Wiz I very much picked up on the subkick type mic added to the final mix, I noticed it immediately. I like it, but think maybe it could come down a touch. Sorry, I'm late to the party on this. I did want to make a couple comments on the ruff from post one. The things I noticed at first, in no particular order is how much I liked the dry personal vocal (something I'm generally a fan of), that the drums, and panning in general are a little off-putting for me. I felt like the snare and hats were really too far to the right, so much that I though it was hard panned at first. I was glad with the ride cymbal came in the drum sound spread some. And the acoustic sounds like a Taylor DI (something I'm generally not a fan of). To the fact that 3 different mixes were similar enough to be spliced together goes to show the importance of the human element. You hear things a certain way and you WANT to hear them a certain way. It shows how (so long as they aren't shit) the tools become less important than the talent and vision. On the final mix: I LOVE the backing vocals. It's a perfect song for OOooos and I was glad to hear them. I wish the lead vocal sounded more like the demo. I know you love your Bricasti, but you voice is so nice, warm and personal in the EQ only version. I like the bass sound, and how it interacts with the BD. The Mike Campbell guitar line in the intro and elsewhere is perfect. I wish the clean chords on the right panned electric guitar has some tremolo on it. It's the perfect part (the long slow strummed) for tremolo IMNSHO.  There's a keyboard pad or something happening in the chorus, I'd like more of that as well. Nice work! Try to find some budget to hire me on a few songs.  Your songs deserve live drums. |
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Post by wiz on Feb 27, 2022 20:49:30 GMT -6
Thanks for commenting bud... he he he.. Boingy.... that made me think back to the first time I heard a kick drum solo'd in a studio... it was EXACTLY like the sound of a basketball being bounced on a wooden court floor... I couldn't believe it .... LOL... not my favourite sound... I probably overcooked the drums, as I was trying out the new Fields of Rock Expansion from Toontrack for SD3, I will definitely take your points and go back and have a look at them...no doubt I mixed them too loud. The bass, might be being (faux) boosted by the kick drum, I think from memory I added the sort of sub mic for the kick drum in that mix, which I don't normally do... I noticed that when I listened in the car last night on the way to poker.... will check. What did you think about me coming up with essentially with the same mix using three different plug in approaches...8)....weird huh? I guess it shows a couple of things, workflow probably matters more to me than the specifics of one particular plug in EQ at that level....and I like a particular sound. thanks again mate Cheers Wiz I very much picked up on the subkick type mic added to the final mix, I noticed it immediately. I like it, but think maybe it could come down a touch. Sorry, I'm late to the party on this. I did want to make a couple comments on the ruff from post one. The things I noticed at first, in no particular order is how much I liked the dry personal vocal (something I'm generally a fan of), that the drums, and panning in general are a little off-putting for me. I felt like the snare and hats were really too far to the right, so much that I though it was hard panned at first. I was glad with the ride cymbal came in the drum sound spread some. And the acoustic sounds like a Taylor DI (something I'm generally not a fan of). To the fact that 3 different mixes were similar enough to be spliced together goes to show the importance of the human element. You hear things a certain way and you WANT to hear them a certain way. It shows how (so long as they aren't shit) the tools become less important than the talent and vision. On the final mix: I LOVE the backing vocals. It's a perfect song for OOooos and I was glad to hear them. I wish the lead vocal sounded more like the demo. I know you love your Bricasti, but you voice is so nice, warm and personal in the EQ only version. I like the bass sound, and how it interacts with the BD. The Mike Campbell guitar line in the intro and elsewhere is perfect. I wish the clean chords on the right panned electric guitar has some tremolo on it. It's the perfect part (the long slow strummed) for tremolo IMNSHO. There's a keyboard pad or something happening in the chorus, I'd like more of that as well. Nice work! Try to find some budget to hire me on a few songs. Your songs deserve live drums. Thanks so much for listening and commenting, I appreciate the time and effort .. I would love to be just writing and singing and playing guitar on the tunes, and having professionals do all the rest..... oh what an easy existence that would be.... 8) Its amazing how all things interact and change the emotion....its been really cool to get the feedback on this.... cheers Wiz |
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Post by theshea on Feb 28, 2022 2:08:56 GMT -6
couldn‘t hear the differences in the first rough mix ... because the truth for me is: api, neve, ssl whatever plugin channelstrips more or less don‘t have a „sound“. if they the have, it‘s really really subtle. marketing simply works!
so yeah, choose one based on workflow.
your mix: i would make it really dark cause thats what the vocal dictate in my opinion. i hear a cupid atmosphere. so i would make the drums darker, quieter and push em way back in the room. vocals should be king here.
the original tracks all sound very very good. i personally would just love to have the song more produced with the above mentioned atmosphere.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 20:58:16 GMT -6
Good rest of the production but honestly, I hate the drums in both. The samples don't fit. They're not sitting behind your voice very well.
I would warm them up with something tubey to fit with the bass more, smash them down with a colored compressor plugin that's not like a Distressor (maybe Oldtimer, Presswerk, Neold U73, Molot, or Silika?), maybe run everything into a room reverb, and more room on the drums.
Then back off the limiter on the master or two bus. It's gotta be making everything even flatter.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 21:07:29 GMT -6
The drums are just really pokey and digitally processed sounding. They don't really need any help to punch through your voice and need to sit back behind you a bit. They're like something I would put blockfish on back in the day tbh
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There's a keyboard pad or something happening in the chorus, I'd like more of that as well.
Your songs deserve live drums.