|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 19, 2022 22:39:37 GMT -6
I remember it as an expensive cheap sounding LDC. It DID introduce me to the concept of the grille FINISH mattering--as it had one side finished shiny and the other matte. Of course, I have no way to confirm that wasn't just that the two sides of the capsule were REALLY unmatched, but... Sibilant. Ratty upper mids. I had tried it because it was recommended because I always rented old 87s for my own projects...and it was "their 87'ish mic"...but, to me--it had the hallmarks of the wave of CHinese LDCs--a bright K67 style cap with seemingly no deemphasis circuit...no slanted grille to reduce proximity...only made with good enough head amp that it was "better than those" by...some amount that was NOT $2k more to me. I question the "always cutting low mids"...and then wanting a U87. To ME--when I think about mistruths of the 87, it's that there's a big nasal HONK...rather than LOW bass, it has this huge warm low MID proximity effect that survives compression better, and then it sounds like there's a resonant shelf DOWN around 11kh--causing a big spike RIGHT there, and the HF to fall off above. I mean...I dunno--it's like a less universally good 67. Still great utility mic. The prices people sell them for now I find insane--and i LIKE old 87s. But, I'd BET a new 67 RI would best an old 87 at anything--and they're getting close in price, no? Old 87’a and new RI 67’s are still about $2500 apart. I mentioned pulling out Low mids and Lows. Always thought of 87s as being more forward in the 900 hz region. Not a bad thing,
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Feb 19, 2022 22:53:18 GMT -6
If we are talking Blue here, we need to mention the cactus. I always loved that mic. I had the Violet version. Sold it for my 87 ironically. I miss it. I agree with Eric here…I think the older Blue mics do a great job of what you imagine a particular mic sounds like. Almost an exaggeration of whatever mic they were going for. The hummingbirds were great on toms as well with those rotating capsules.
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Feb 21, 2022 14:48:14 GMT -6
Moose, I’m going to respectfully disagree/ agree with you. I always feel Blue at their absolute best built there capsules and mics with the philosophy of designing a mic that excelled at and overstated the perceived personality of the classic. They often always pretty much missed everything that made an 87 an 87, but at the same time in a quick demo it would always impress because it was like someone had flipped a switch labeled U87 personality in spades. If that makes any sense. No sorry makes no sense. I have no idea what your trying to say? Try again maybe..? Way back in the day I talked to Skipper Wise a number of times and he was very generous with his time, knowledge & willingness to let a kid try & buy some microphones. Never once did I get the impression that they were in it to build "their version" of a U87 or anything else... His philosophy seemed to be that those things already exist and if someone wants a U87 or 414 then they should buy that. Skipper seemed way more interested in carving new ground & moving beyond the old standards to create new ones... and to that end I think he was fairly successful. None of those microphones sound like anything else I can think of. Its like a C37A. Got its own thing... not a Neumann sound... not an AKG sound. And even then I'm not sure there's really a "Blue sound" either. If only because all of those microphones are radically different.
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Feb 21, 2022 14:55:23 GMT -6
The Kiwi and the Mouse were the standouts of the FET line to me. They made a special edition Dragonfly with the B6 capsule that was pretty nice as well. Those Dragonfly's are cool on toms, easy to place with the adjustable capsule axis. I have a pair of Dragonfly's and a friend had one of the limited edition Dragonfly's for a while... The fly's get used all the time here. Never on toms though... not sure I've met a drummer I trust enough for that. Its a big target! They do get hung as overheads & room mics on a fairly consistent basis. Rotational capsule is super clutch there plus they sound killer in those spots. In a good room if the drummer can balance themselves? They grab everything including the lower octave of the kick & toms in a nice way. Wide sweet spot, not laser focused. Also get used on a fair amount of vocals. Wouldn't call it a 414 killer but I do hear a pinch of that voicing & find myself using them in places where I'd reach for something with a brass CK12 capsule. Its a nice alternative to the Neumann trip.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 21, 2022 15:13:55 GMT -6
Jay, did you like the Baby Bottle? (If you heard it/them) Thanks, Chris
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Feb 21, 2022 15:27:32 GMT -6
Jay, did you like the Baby Bottle? (If you heard it/them) Thanks, Chris I do have a pair of Baby Bottles... one of them is serial number 47. Yes one of the first 50 they made! Fully realize the voicing of that mic has changed over the years so caveat emptor... The ones I have are voiced almost like a ribbon mic with high output. All midrange. Top starts rolling off maybe 6-8kHz? Bottom starts dropping around 200Hz? Huge ball of midrange fun that I love on electric guitars, and very specifically high gain "chugga chugga" stuff. If there's an icepick or bumblebee thing in the live tone? Like a strat through a Super Reverb or yeah, wall of gain guitars the Baby Bottles roll all that junk away and leave the good stuff intact. Never really connected with them for vocals. Kinda weird sounding w/o lots of EQ. Sometimes they'll get pulled out for drum room (if I need to knock down the cymbals) or mono overhead... percussion like shakers & whatnot? Fine. Sometimes pretty cool on acoustic guitar. Often first choice of what I have for banjo!
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 21, 2022 20:33:47 GMT -6
I have the newest/SL. Sounds like it's particularly suited for Rawk vocals, or Blues based stuff. Maybe I'll try some Allman style vocals on it soon! Chris
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Feb 21, 2022 21:19:28 GMT -6
If we are talking Blue here, we need to mention the cactus. I always loved that mic. I had the Violet version. Sold it for my 87 ironically. I miss it. I agree with Eric here…I think the older Blue mics do a great job of what you imagine a particular mic sounds like. Almost an exaggeration of whatever mic they were going for. The hummingbirds were great on toms as well with those rotating capsules. Was always curious of those hummingbirds on toms. I just got a pair of Shure beta181s and have been using MK012s forever, but am still curious to compare. How would you describe them? Anything you’d compare them to?
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Feb 21, 2022 21:35:34 GMT -6
Jay, did you like the Baby Bottle? (If you heard it/them) Thanks, Chris I do have a pair of Baby Bottles... one of them is serial number 47. Yes one of the first 50 they made! Fully realize the voicing of that mic has changed over the years so caveat emptor... The ones I have are voiced almost like a ribbon mic with high output. All midrange. Top starts rolling off maybe 6-8kHz? Bottom starts dropping around 200Hz? Huge ball of midrange fun that I love on electric guitars, and very specifically high gain "chugga chugga" stuff. If there's an icepick or bumblebee thing in the live tone? Like a strat through a Super Reverb or yeah, wall of gain guitars the Baby Bottles roll all that junk away and leave the good stuff intact. Never really connected with them for vocals. Kinda weird sounding w/o lots of EQ. Sometimes they'll get pulled out for drum room (if I need to knock down the cymbals) or mono overhead... percussion like shakers & whatnot? Fine. Sometimes pretty cool on acoustic guitar. Often first choice of what I have for banjo! I used an early baby bottle for a record once back in 2002 and really liked it a ton on acoustic and a husky vocal. Only saw them get shit on at every forum since, so never bought one. Didn’t realize until many years later that they had capsule changes at the very least. I have s/n 052 of my Blue Mouse and it rules! Not even my Lawson FET beats it on bass cabs! Never gonna sell that one.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 22, 2022 1:45:24 GMT -6
IMHO most vocal mics are like picking out golf clubs. I think that's a fair way to putt it. Chris
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Feb 22, 2022 6:41:09 GMT -6
If we are talking Blue here, we need to mention the cactus. I always loved that mic. I had the Violet version. Sold it for my 87 ironically. I miss it. I agree with Eric here…I think the older Blue mics do a great job of what you imagine a particular mic sounds like. Almost an exaggeration of whatever mic they were going for. The hummingbirds were great on toms as well with those rotating capsules. Was always curious of those hummingbirds on toms. I just got a pair of Shure beta181s and have been using MK012s forever, but am still curious to compare. How would you describe them? Anything you’d compare them to? They sound like your typical bright sdc, but they can take a lot of spl, and when positioned close to the toms, I got very little kit bleed. Lent them to a friend before the pandemic. I gotta get them back!
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,984
|
Post by ericn on Feb 22, 2022 10:46:48 GMT -6
Was always curious of those hummingbirds on toms. I just got a pair of Shure beta181s and have been using MK012s forever, but am still curious to compare. How would you describe them? Anything you’d compare them to? They sound like your typical bright sdc, but they can take a lot of spl, and when positioned close to the toms, I got very little kit bleed. Lent them to a friend before the pandemic. I gotta get them back! I think I really pissed off the guys from BLUE years ago when they introduced the Dragonfly. They were giving the whole most innovative original design in years, blah, blah blah. So being the ass I am I went and grabbed a Sony C55 from a friends studio at lunch, yeah original that Sony was from the 70’s. Hate rep/ manufacturer speak.
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Feb 22, 2022 14:32:29 GMT -6
I used an early baby bottle for a record once back in 2002 and really liked it a ton on acoustic and a husky vocal. Only saw them get shit on at every forum since, so never bought one. Didn’t realize until many years later that they had capsule changes at the very least. I have s/n 052 of my Blue Mouse and it rules! Not even my Lawson FET beats it on bass cabs! Never gonna sell that one. Mouse is a great mic. Famous spotting was Jeff Tweedy using it for vocals in the yankee foxtrot movie... under the radar but I think all their mics are kinda like that. Baby Bottle voicing changed even in the Latvia days. Apparently most people thought the mic was too dark so they relaxed the voicing on later serial numbers to let more top through. The darkness is/was IMO what made it great. Not an everyday utility player, more of a specialist. I haven't used the current version with all the switches. Skipper offered a buy in on rec.audio.pro... pre sold the first 100 or so? I bought one & realized quickly I'd need a second. Found its home quick on "rock" guitars - previously used a 421 & 57 combo... or 121 & 57... and the Baby Bottle was a mic that sounded like the blend on its own. In front of a 4x12 it needs a 30dB pad to cope with the crazy output... not fry the mic amp but it takes the SPL no problem. I also kinda like it on bass cabs. Sounds really good there, esp w/fuzz/synth bass & lots of pedals. Its thick & rounds all those sharp edges off.
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Feb 22, 2022 14:37:01 GMT -6
Mouse is a great mic. Famous spotting was Jeff Tweedy using it for vocals in the yankee foxtrot movie... under the radar but I think all their mics are kinda like that. Baby Bottle voicing changed even in the Latvia days. Apparently most people thought the mic was too dark so they relaxed the voicing on later serial numbers to let more top through. The darkness is/was IMO what made it great. Not an everyday utility player, more of a specialist. I haven't used the current version with all the switches. Skipper offered a buy in on rec.audio.pro... pre sold the first 100 or so? I bought one & realized quickly I'd need a second. Found its home quick on "rock" guitars - previously used a 421 & 57 combo... or 121 & 57... and the Baby Bottle was a mic that sounded like the blend on its own. In front of a 4x12 it needs a 30dB pad to cope with the crazy output... not fry the mic amp but it takes the SPL no problem. I also kinda like it on bass cabs. Sounds really good there, esp w/fuzz/synth bass & lots of pedals. Its thick & rounds all those sharp edges off. oh bummer! I remember the baby bottle being very dark and that was definitely what I loved about it! I do wonder how I would feel about it now, though - my monitoring setup was utter trash back then (some active Tannoy reveals in an untreated 8x8 room!). I know people do use the Mouse for vocals sometimes, but it always felt really scooped to me with this kind of harsh high end? Admittedly, I haven't tried it in a while, but sounds like it's worth revisiting!
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Feb 22, 2022 14:47:29 GMT -6
oh bummer! I remember the baby bottle being very dark and that was definitely what I loved about it! I do wonder how I would feel about it now, though - my monitoring setup was utter trash back then (some active Tannoy reveals in an untreated 8x8 room!). I know people do use the Mouse for vocals sometimes, but it always felt really scooped to me with this kind of harsh high end? Admittedly, I haven't tried it in a while, but sounds like it's worth revisiting! Not sure to what extent, how deep the revoicing was I've only really used my pair. I'd imagine it wasn't radical? I still dig mine... mostly because they don't sound like anything else. Rule of thumb with the Mouse is try it where you'd use a 47Fet. Not saying it sounds like a 47Fet just that it can cover some of the same sources/applications.
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Feb 22, 2022 14:59:10 GMT -6
yeah, aside from bass cab, I have used it on outside kick, but I always preferred my U195 or (now) my Lawson 47FET
Apologies to OP for partially hi-jacking this thread!
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 22, 2022 19:42:42 GMT -6
Unfortunately, the one vocal clip I did with my SL Baby Bottle, for my reference... The room distortion was pretty bad. I could mentally subtract it though, and the SL was an attempt to "balance" the tone. By analogy, generally anything you'd put an EV 635a on, the Baby Bottle SL is a good choice. Midrange Baby! Since I have the buttery Baritone thang, it's a good pull on a Rocker. Chris
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Feb 22, 2022 19:51:53 GMT -6
Here is a great example of the Baby Bottle. I sat in on a chunk of the tracking session for this song. Guitars and vocals were all the Baby Bottle.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Feb 25, 2022 7:50:14 GMT -6
Always thought of 87s as being more forward in the 900 hz region. Not a bad thing, There is nothing wrong with your hearing! Most U87s do present the 900 (750-1000hz really) band more stridently than other frequency response ranges. Which you can neutralize with a parametric tailoring center freq at 875hz, bandwidth Q at 0.7 octaves, cut about 1.5db Do the opposite to make a Kiwi sound more like a U87.
|
|