Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 9:03:56 GMT -6
Gotta admit for a $100.00 snare this sounds really cool.. What's confusing me is in the vid below there must be some OH's somewhere right? You can't get that sound out of a single SM57?! Yeah I know there will be a kick drum mic but there doesn't appear to be any OH's anywhere.
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Feb 10, 2022 9:18:23 GMT -6
You can see a single mic stand behind the ride. So there definitely is somekind of overhead. The stereo image is pretty narrow so it could be some kind of xy mic up there, like a Rode NT4.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 9:32:44 GMT -6
Thanks, I thought as much.. Anyway this is leading to another question , so instead of using an e-drum kit I was thinking about programming the track and swapping out the snare / HH with a real one. I'd dry mic the kit (57 on snare) / Beyer on HH, remove all the room / ambient from the VST and then blend them all in with a convolution "space" or room verb. Now, I've recorded kits a lot but I've never tried to split one apart, usually the extent of rock / metal electronic replacement is triggers used to layer the bass drum / snare. With this "frankenkit" approach I wouldn't layer triggers, I'd replace the snare / HH entirely. Anyone tried this? Bad idea? Good idea?
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 10, 2022 9:47:33 GMT -6
There's a stereo spread to the sound, so there has to be a stereo overhead going on there. As brice mentioned, there's a faint outline of a mic stand to the guy's right (our left) just behind him.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Feb 10, 2022 11:04:03 GMT -6
There's also a mic under the snare. The clip sounds pretty roomy, even on laptop speakers.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Feb 10, 2022 11:07:05 GMT -6
I love me some cheap snares (the right ones, anyway.)
Could be a topic for a thread!
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Feb 10, 2022 11:10:23 GMT -6
Thanks, I thought as much.. Anyway this is leading to another question , so instead of using an e-drum kit I was thinking about programming the track and swapping out the snare / HH with a real one. I'd dry mic the kit (57 on snare) / Beyer on HH, remove all the room / ambient from the VST and then blend them all in with a convolution "space" or room verb. Now, I've recorded kits a lot but I've never tried to split one apart, usually the extent of rock / metal electronic replacement is triggers used to layer the bass drum / snare. With this "frankenkit" approach I wouldn't layer triggers, I'd replace the snare / HH entirely. Anyone tried this? Bad idea? Good idea? That's really acceptable in the heavily processed world of modern metal forms, as well as some branches of pop and country. Nothing organic gets damaged that way... Nothing organic gets in the way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 11:52:20 GMT -6
Thanks, I thought as much.. Anyway this is leading to another question , so instead of using an e-drum kit I was thinking about programming the track and swapping out the snare / HH with a real one. I'd dry mic the kit (57 on snare) / Beyer on HH, remove all the room / ambient from the VST and then blend them all in with a convolution "space" or room verb. Now, I've recorded kits a lot but I've never tried to split one apart, usually the extent of rock / metal electronic replacement is triggers used to layer the bass drum / snare. With this "frankenkit" approach I wouldn't layer triggers, I'd replace the snare / HH entirely. Anyone tried this? Bad idea? Good idea? That's really acceptable in the heavily processed world of modern metal forms, as well as some branches of pop and country. Nothing organic gets damaged that way... Nothing organic gets in the way. The world of pop, pop rock, modern mixing and / or sculpting is all new to me.. I'm starting again and rather excited by it, quite the scenery change from years of extreme metal and heavy rock.
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Feb 10, 2022 12:08:57 GMT -6
That's really acceptable in the heavily processed world of modern metal forms, as well as some branches of pop and country. Nothing organic gets damaged that way... Nothing organic gets in the way. The world of pop, pop rock, modern mixing and / or sculpting is all new to me.. I'm starting again and rather excited by it, quite the scenery change from years of extreme metal and heavy rock. Actually I think most of the techniques you've already used are going to be very useful. Modern pop and pop rock is heavily programmed, edited and triggered. The drum sounds are actually very similar I find. ( to modern metal) Just replace heavy guitars with synths I have quite a few friends who've made the transition from modern metal to modern pop with relative ease.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 12:30:48 GMT -6
The world of pop, pop rock, modern mixing and / or sculpting is all new to me.. I'm starting again and rather excited by it, quite the scenery change from years of extreme metal and heavy rock. Actually I think most of the techniques you've already used are going to be very useful. Modern pop and pop rock is heavily programmed, edited and triggered. The drum sounds are actually very similar I find. ( to modern metal) Just replace heavy guitars with synths I have quite a few friends who've made the transition from modern metal to modern pop with relative ease. The main difference is there's actually some space to work with instruments, focus on tonal balance and mind blowing sonics as opposed to just firefighting everything hoping it won't sound like crap when you're done ..
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Feb 10, 2022 12:33:12 GMT -6
Actually I think most of the techniques you've already used are going to be very useful. Modern pop and pop rock is heavily programmed, edited and triggered. The drum sounds are actually very similar I find. ( to modern metal) Just replace heavy guitars with synths I have quite a few friends who've made the transition from modern metal to modern pop with relative ease. The main difference is there's actually some space to work with instruments, focus on tonal balance and mind blowing sonics as opposed to just firefighting everything hoping it won't sound like crap when you're done .. Mixing that stuff is attrition to me. I have about 30 minutes until the ears start to go... maybe an hour or two max. It's like doing heart surgery in the middle of a house fire.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 10, 2022 13:01:27 GMT -6
The main difference is there's actually some space to work with instruments, focus on tonal balance and mind blowing sonics as opposed to just firefighting everything hoping it won't sound like crap when you're done .. Mixing that stuff is attrition to me. I have about 30 minutes until the ears start to go... maybe an hour or two max. It's like doing heart surgery in the middle of a house fire. Go write that song… heart surgery/house fire. That’s good imagery!
|
|
|
Post by tkaitkai on Feb 10, 2022 13:10:39 GMT -6
Thanks, I thought as much.. Anyway this is leading to another question , so instead of using an e-drum kit I was thinking about programming the track and swapping out the snare / HH with a real one. I'd dry mic the kit (57 on snare) / Beyer on HH, remove all the room / ambient from the VST and then blend them all in with a convolution "space" or room verb. Now, I've recorded kits a lot but I've never tried to split one apart, usually the extent of rock / metal electronic replacement is triggers used to layer the bass drum / snare. With this "frankenkit" approach I wouldn't layer triggers, I'd replace the snare / HH entirely. Anyone tried this? Bad idea? Good idea? This is kind of the opposite of what I do. I like to get the realism from a live pair of OHs and rooms, and then replace the kicks and snares (unless, of course, the real kicks and snares are good enough to use in the blend). I prefer to let the kick/snare samples define the "tone" of the drums and then everything else gets processed accordingly. But hey, try it out! It sounds like a cool idea. Worst case scenario, you don't end up liking it. Or it could end up being a major breakthrough. No wrong way to do this stuff.
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Feb 10, 2022 15:15:44 GMT -6
Thanks, I thought as much.. Anyway this is leading to another question , so instead of using an e-drum kit I was thinking about programming the track and swapping out the snare / HH with a real one. I'd dry mic the kit (57 on snare) / Beyer on HH, remove all the room / ambient from the VST and then blend them all in with a convolution "space" or room verb. Now, I've recorded kits a lot but I've never tried to split one apart, usually the extent of rock / metal electronic replacement is triggers used to layer the bass drum / snare. With this "frankenkit" approach I wouldn't layer triggers, I'd replace the snare / HH entirely. Anyone tried this? Bad idea? Good idea? This is kind of the opposite of what I do. I like to get the realism from a live pair of OHs and rooms, and then replace the kicks and snares (unless, of course, the real kicks and snares are good enough to use in the blend). I prefer to let the kick/snare samples define the "tone" of the drums and then everything else gets processed accordingly. But hey, try it out! It sounds like a cool idea. Worst case scenario, you don't end up liking it. Or it could end up being a major breakthrough. No wrong way to do this stuff. This is similar to how I work on heavy music, too, if I record the drums or if good drums are sent to me. Use AS MUCH OF THE LIVE KIT AS POSSIBLE - even blending in samples of the live kit if I need samples to lift the shells away from the cymbal bleed. If necessary add additional other close mic samples for flavor/impact/consistency/fill out the tone. If necessary add matching room mic samples to bring more cymbal-free ambience in.
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Feb 11, 2022 1:32:48 GMT -6
Actually I think most of the techniques you've already used are going to be very useful. Modern pop and pop rock is heavily programmed, edited and triggered. The drum sounds are actually very similar I find. ( to modern metal) Just replace heavy guitars with synths I have quite a few friends who've made the transition from modern metal to modern pop with relative ease. The main difference is there's actually some space to work with instruments, focus on tonal balance and mind blowing sonics as opposed to just firefighting everything hoping it won't sound like crap when you're done .. Haha very true. I'm curious why you don't want to track real drums? From what I remember reading you have enough mics and preamps. Is it a space thing or really an esthetic choice?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 2:21:45 GMT -6
The main difference is there's actually some space to work with instruments, focus on tonal balance and mind blowing sonics as opposed to just firefighting everything hoping it won't sound like crap when you're done .. Haha very true. I'm curious why you don't want to track real drums? From what I remember reading you have enough mics and preamps. Is it a space thing or really an esthetic choice? Budget after the re-fit is one concern, as in I don't have any left but the primary issue is noise. Venue's have been closed down due to some modern regulations and complaints, unless you're out in the sticks which is a million dollar venture over here you're kinda stuck. I have one room that's perfect rooms for tracking drums, it's 26 X 18 X 8.. After a bit of baffling I don't think you'd get much better, a shame really. I've looked into various ways of recording drums quietly, like trusound drum heads and cymbals but at a certain point I think you'd be better off using a VST.
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Feb 11, 2022 2:53:57 GMT -6
Haha very true. I'm curious why you don't want to track real drums? From what I remember reading you have enough mics and preamps. Is it a space thing or really an esthetic choice? Budget after the re-fit is one concern, as in I don't have any left but the primary issue is noise. Venue's have been closed down due to some modern regulations and complaints, unless you're out in the sticks which is a million dollar venture over here you're kinda stuck. I have one room that's perfect rooms for tracking drums, it's 26 X 18 X 8.. After a bit of baffling I don't think you'd get much better, a shame really. I've looked into various ways of recording drums quietly, like trusound drum heads and cymbals but at a certain point I think you'd be better off using a VST. Crap, that's a shame. Sounds so familiar. Same problem here, Venues, small studios all closing down because of New noise regulations. You're definitely better off with VSTs then.
|
|