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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 18:26:15 GMT -6
So, I'm thinking about getting the SSL Big six and just running with it.. Screw budget let's give my credit card a good kicking, I essentially need 500 racks to keep most of this OTB and I'm even considering an OTB mastering limiter (bettermaker). The board has an SSL G-Comp lite that I actually like so no need for a master bus insert but a mastering EQ could be handy..
The SSL six has channels 1 - 4 (mono) with inserts and 4 stereo channels, I'll have a Shelford and SA-2A positioned into channel 1 and that will be my main vocal strip. Channel 2 will be plugged into a 6176 for bass / DI.. From thereon I need to try and fit an OTB studio into 10 channels.
So there will be key's, vox, guitars, whizzy bits plus a full 8 channels from a pearl mimic (drums), on the stem board I haven't quite figured out how to set the full layout yet. I can't completely escape ITB but it'll be some TDR plugs doing some surgical bits and nothing else if I get my own way. Just a note here: If it ain't on KMR audio or Thomann I can't buy it..
So with an overly excited face, if you had ten channels to mess with what would you do? So far I'm looking at:
1X SSL Ultra Violet stereo EQ (for cue FX / foldback "summed" reverb / delay from my PCM-92)
2X IGS Audio 576 (drum bus)
2X IGS Tubecore 500 (vox bus) could be retrowide?
API 500-8B 8 Slot Lunch Box
That won't cover it so let me know / suggestions welcome..
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 15, 2021 19:22:47 GMT -6
We ship internationally  |
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Post by plinker on Dec 15, 2021 20:54:54 GMT -6
How about Rupees?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 21:10:18 GMT -6
Is there a dislike button?
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Post by plinker on Dec 15, 2021 21:25:49 GMT -6
Is there a dislike button? Hah! Sorry -- I've had a few beers...and such... |
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Post by deaconblues on Dec 15, 2021 21:30:13 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 21:42:43 GMT -6
I'll consider anything although I've never heard of Zahl.. Thanks for the recommendation. Just so there's no confusion, essentially I'd like to only use a bit of surgical EQ ITB so I need to figure out how to factor that to 12 channels in total and then decide what outboard I can use to make that happen. Never worked on anything less than 16 channels so this is new ground for me.. |
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Post by svart on Dec 15, 2021 22:09:16 GMT -6
Some capi eqs. Love mine.
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jits
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Post by jits on Dec 15, 2021 23:42:22 GMT -6
Going 500 series, did you consider Cranborne Audio 500R8 audio interface with their 500ADAT expander? Lots of niceties there - great conversion, great headphone amps, nice routing mechanism and a summing mixer all in one.
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Post by javamad on Dec 16, 2021 5:55:06 GMT -6
For a 500 chasis, also consider the R10 .. I have it chock full and it has power to spare.
I also like that it has both XLR and TRS at the back so any cable you have will work.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2021 11:00:53 GMT -6
Stupid question but do you want a problem solving in EQ, think SSL or Speck? Or a tone monster ala API, Iron Age or Neve 10 series?
Personally I want both at hand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 12:05:52 GMT -6
jits , the SSL Big Six mixing desk would be the AD/DA converter.. Can't really use it as intended with a separate converter, plus I already have an Apollo X6 + an MOTU 1248. Thinking of trading them in against the SSL. ericn , welcome back Eric.. Hope all is well. I will be doing any surgical EQ pre send to board with some TDR plugs, however once it's back in the analogue domain it has to stay there until mixdown. The wideband EQ's on the board appear to be pretty good so I'll use them for effect. As I have a PCM-92 and the board doesn't have "proper" EQ I need something to tidy up the delay's verb's from this box before it hits the insert / summed to main cue mix. So it's a problem solving EQ really.. However CAPI is a good suggestion, not sure if you can buy a stereo linked pair though? Because the SSL is a 12 channel mixer the layout is proving a bit difficult, I'm not really sure how I'd like to approach it. Channels 1 - 2 are covered (Shelford + 2A / 6176) which both have a mic / line selector / splitter so I can use them for tracking and as inserts. I'd probably use channel 1 for main vox and channel 2 for kick / snare with the 6176 (1176). Channels 3 / 4 (mono) will be guitars, stereo 5 - 6 are for keys / atmospheric, 7 - 8 will be the parallel vox bus (I'll have to mix the dry / wet / EQ groups ITB and send them both to be stemmed on the same channel), 9 - 10 parallel drum bus, 11 - 12 parallel guitar bus. I would like to use the SSL G-Bus comp which sorta negates the need to use additional compression on said busses, however if anyone believes that I could improve things by for example using a pair of 1176 style comps on the drum bus, some 2A's for the vox bus and some vari-mu's for key's I'm open to the suggestion (any take on it is fine). Channels 3 - 4 will definitely need something and I really like the IGS tubecore mu so I might use them for the geetar's..
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2021 12:26:18 GMT -6
jits , the SSL Big Six mixing desk would be the AD/DA converter.. Can't really use it as intended with a separate converter, plus I already have an Apollo X6 + an MOTU 1248. Thinking of trading them in against the SSL. ericn , welcome back Eric.. Hope all is well. I will be doing any surgical EQ pre send to board with some TDR plugs, however once it's back in the analogue domain it has to stay there until mixdown. The wideband EQ's on the board appear to be pretty good so I'll use them for effect. As I have a PCM-92 and the board doesn't have "proper" EQ I need something to tidy up the delay's verb's from this box before it hits the insert / summed to main cue mix. So it's a problem solving EQ really.. However CAPI is a good suggestion, not sure if you can buy a stereo linked pair though? Because the SSL is a 12 channel mixer the layout is proving a bit difficult, I'm not really sure how I'd like to approach it. Channels 1 - 2 are covered (Shelford + 2A / 6176) which both have a mic / line selector / splitter so I can use them for tracking and as inserts. I'd probably use channel 1 for main vox and channel 2 for kick / snare with the 6176 (1176). Channels 3 / 4 (mono) will be guitars, stereo 5 - 6 are for keys / atmospheric, 7 - 8 will be the parallel vox bus (I'll have to mix the dry / wet / EQ groups ITB and send them both to be stemmed on the same channel), 9 - 10 parallel drum bus, 11 - 12 parallel guitar bus. I would like to use the SSL G-Bus comp which sorta negates the need to use additional compression on said busses, however if anyone believes that I could improve things by for example using a pair of 1176 style comps on the drum bus, some 2A's for the vox bus and some vari-mu's for key's I'm open to the suggestion (any take on it is fine). Channels 3 - 4 will definitely need something and I really like the IGS tubecore mu so I might use them for the geetar's.. Thanks, honestly I suggest you first buy the board and get comfortable with it, learn what it’s EQ can really do, then buy a nice patch bay. BUT before you jump on the SSL BIG take a very serious look at the CADAC Live1 probably the best little analog board nobody know about. |
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Post by Ward on Dec 16, 2021 13:51:01 GMT -6
Considering your guitar tastes . . . I cannot strongly enough recommend the audioscape V3a. 500 series LA3a that is a dead ringer for the original Fantastic tool for electric guitar amp micing/processing |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 16, 2021 14:42:49 GMT -6
jits , the SSL Big Six mixing desk would be the AD/DA converter.. Can't really use it as intended with a separate converter, plus I already have an Apollo X6 + an MOTU 1248. Thinking of trading them in against the SSL. ericn , welcome back Eric.. Hope all is well. I will be doing any surgical EQ pre send to board with some TDR plugs, however once it's back in the analogue domain it has to stay there until mixdown. The wideband EQ's on the board appear to be pretty good so I'll use them for effect. As I have a PCM-92 and the board doesn't have "proper" EQ I need something to tidy up the delay's verb's from this box before it hits the insert / summed to main cue mix. So it's a problem solving EQ really.. However CAPI is a good suggestion, not sure if you can buy a stereo linked pair though? Because the SSL is a 12 channel mixer the layout is proving a bit difficult, I'm not really sure how I'd like to approach it. Channels 1 - 2 are covered (Shelford + 2A / 6176) which both have a mic / line selector / splitter so I can use them for tracking and as inserts. I'd probably use channel 1 for main vox and channel 2 for kick / snare with the 6176 (1176). Channels 3 / 4 (mono) will be guitars, stereo 5 - 6 are for keys / atmospheric, 7 - 8 will be the parallel vox bus (I'll have to mix the dry / wet / EQ groups ITB and send them both to be stemmed on the same channel), 9 - 10 parallel drum bus, 11 - 12 parallel guitar bus. I would like to use the SSL G-Bus comp which sorta negates the need to use additional compression on said busses, however if anyone believes that I could improve things by for example using a pair of 1176 style comps on the drum bus, some 2A's for the vox bus and some vari-mu's for key's I'm open to the suggestion (any take on it is fine). Channels 3 - 4 will definitely need something and I really like the IGS tubecore mu so I might use them for the geetar's.. Thanks, honestly I suggest you first buy the board and get comfortable with it, learn what it’s EQ can really do, then buy a nice patch bay. BUT before you jump on the SSL BIG take a very serious look at the CADAC Live1 probably the best little analog board nobody know about. Where does one find a CADAC board? Is there even U.S. distribution? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2021 15:04:10 GMT -6
Thanks, honestly I suggest you first buy the board and get comfortable with it, learn what it’s EQ can really do, then buy a nice patch bay. BUT before you jump on the SSL BIG take a very serious look at the CADAC Live1 probably the best little analog board nobody know about. Where does one find a CADAC board? Is there even U.S. distribution? Man this is what happens when I disappear, no more US distributor, but I’ll bet Masque Sound can still get them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 15:20:04 GMT -6
Where does one find a CADAC board? Is there even U.S. distribution? Man this is what happens when I disappear, no more US distributor, but I’ll bet Masque Sound can still get them. Sound on sound pretty much said they're useless for the studio. Also very different product to the interface mixer combo. Not that I wouldn't go the desk only route with other converters if I could find a new product at a decent price, another MOTU over AVB would cover the conversion side and they're not that expensive. Over the years I've had an SSL 4K, Mackie Onyx 1640i, Zed-R16 and a bunch of random different HW. None of the chains sounded anywhere near the same and until I'd finished the setup I didn't really know how they'd sound in a mix collectively.. Not so bad when you're upgrading one thing at a time but this would essentially be a new setup. Also all of those UA plugs I bought would be utterly useless as well LOL. Worth it.. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2021 15:28:26 GMT -6
Man this is what happens when I disappear, no more US distributor, but I’ll bet Masque Sound can still get them. Sound on sound pretty much said they're useless for the studio. Also very different product to the interface mixer combo. Not that I wouldn't go the desk only route with other converters if I could find a new product at a decent price, another MOTU over AVB would cover the conversion side and they're not that expensive. Over the years I've had an SSL 4K, Mackie Onyx 1640i, Zed-R16 and a bunch of random different HW. None of the chains sounded anywhere near the same and until I'd finished the setup I didn't really know how they'd sound in a mix collectively.. Not so bad when you're upgrading one thing at a time but this would essentially be a new setup. Also all of those UA plugs I bought would be utterly useless as well LOL. Worth it.. The routing can be a bit weird, but ask Bradd how it works in the studio. I get the whole integrated interface, but I have yet to hear a setup where I prefer the converters over outboard. I would also dig very hard into the manual of any board with built in conversion and go over any limitations as far as routing to conversion. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 16, 2021 15:52:56 GMT -6
Man this is what happens when I disappear, no more US distributor, but I’ll bet Masque Sound can still get them. Sound on sound pretty much said they're useless for the studio. Also very different product to the interface mixer combo. Not that I wouldn't go the desk only route with other converters if I could find a new product at a decent price, another MOTU over AVB would cover the conversion side and they're not that expensive. Over the years I've had an SSL 4K, Mackie Onyx 1640i, Zed-R16 and a bunch of random different HW. None of the chains sounded anywhere near the same and until I'd finished the setup I didn't really know how they'd sound in a mix collectively.. Not so bad when you're upgrading one thing at a time but this would essentially be a new setup. Also all of those UA plugs I bought would be utterly useless as well LOL. Worth it.. I read the SoS article as well and it seemed like the main issue with using CADAC for recording was just the lack of monitoring options. For myself, it's not too common that I have more than two musicians playing at the same time so not a huge issue. I suspect studios small enough to want a compact board may be the same. If you're tracking full bands or even orchestras, the CADAC Live1 is not for you anyway, right? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 16:19:07 GMT -6
Sound on sound pretty much said they're useless for the studio. Also very different product to the interface mixer combo. Not that I wouldn't go the desk only route with other converters if I could find a new product at a decent price, another MOTU over AVB would cover the conversion side and they're not that expensive. Over the years I've had an SSL 4K, Mackie Onyx 1640i, Zed-R16 and a bunch of random different HW. None of the chains sounded anywhere near the same and until I'd finished the setup I didn't really know how they'd sound in a mix collectively.. Not so bad when you're upgrading one thing at a time but this would essentially be a new setup. Also all of those UA plugs I bought would be utterly useless as well LOL. Worth it.. I read the SoS article as well and it seemed like the main issue with using CADAC for recording was just the lack of monitoring options. For myself, it's not too common that I have more than two musicians playing at the same time so not a huge issue. I suspect studios small enough to want a compact board may be the same. If you're tracking full bands or even orchestras, the CADAC Live1 is not for you anyway, right? It was these comments that got me "I've mentioned the monitoring section's limitations already, but the inability to monitor the desk's main out as a 'sustaining feed', with PFL/AFL selections overriding it, is a frustration for location recording and some theatre applications, and makes it a non-starter for studio use. However, it isn't a problem for live-sound applications, and that has clearly been prioritised in the design, which is fair enough." And " Channel direct outputs are fixed post-fader, and unbalanced." "Preamp gain very bunched towards end of range." Then again I said in the other thread (duplicating so moved over to here) the SSL is well thought out but it certainly isn't straight forward. So you can sum or "foldback" the two cue mixes to master, that means you essentially route FX and a comp for example through cue 1 & 2 / blend then record (which is wet / dry). They essentially become your stereo inserts (named weirdly, usually for another purpose and seems a bit of a "workaround" for an aux). Then you have channel 1 - 4 inserts and a master buss insert which I believe?! You can record back on DA channels 15 / 16. I've been trying to figure out whether or not you can use bus b as an additional insert point. I mean it's limiting somewhat but enough including ITB / OTB and rack.. The issue with this setup is every time I want to record my Pearl mimic I'm going to have to take all the desk insert / channels out record / plug them back in.. That's not great, simply because constantly doing that could cause a bit of damage. P.S excuse me if I'm getting confuzzled in the nitty gritty parts, I haven't used a desk in a decade.. Been a while since I've had to think about any of this stuff, ahh the joy's and endless convenience of ITB. |
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Post by bradd on Dec 16, 2021 16:35:32 GMT -6
I'm not doing anything particularly fancy with my CADAC Live1, but it has been reliable and doesn't get in the way, while providing everything I need. I don't use the onboard pres and rarely use the EQ. I also don't track full bands. I'm also not using the channel direct outs, so I can't help you much there. When I bought mine, there was a distributor in New York, but it sounds like that may no longer be the case.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 16:47:35 GMT -6
I'm not doing anything particularly fancy with my CADAC Live1, but it has been reliable and doesn't get in the way, while providing everything I need. I don't use the onboard pres and rarely use the EQ. I also don't track full bands. I'm also not using the channel direct outs, so I can't help you much there. When I bought mine, there was a distributor in New York, but it sounds like that may no longer be the case. I'd be looking to use a few of the pre's and definitely the EQ, any specific reason you don't or rarely use them? There are several distributors over in Europe so I can definitely get a hold of one.. Although a part of me just thinks forget the whole desk thing for now and save up for a Trident 68. By the time I've saved up for one though they'll have probably discontinued it. |
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Post by bradd on Dec 16, 2021 16:55:52 GMT -6
I have plenty of outboard pres and as a matter of convenience have been using ITB EQs. Hope to change that next year with the addition of some CAPI EQs. The EQ on the board is somewhat limited, but functional. Consoles are like everything, there is always something better until you get to Neve/API level. My needs were pretty simple. I wanted to be able to insert my outboard without having to mess with this ITB, and mix and monitor with faders.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2021 19:06:13 GMT -6
I'm not doing anything particularly fancy with my CADAC Live1, but it has been reliable and doesn't get in the way, while providing everything I need. I don't use the onboard pres and rarely use the EQ. I also don't track full bands. I'm also not using the channel direct outs, so I can't help you much there. When I bought mine, there was a distributor in New York, but it sounds like that may no longer be the case. I'd be looking to use a few of the pre's and definitely the EQ, any specific reason you don't or rarely use them? There are several distributors over in Europe so I can definitely get a hold of one.. Although a part of me just thinks forget the whole desk thing for now and save up for a Trident 68. By the time I've saved up for one though they'll have probably discontinued it. If I was your gearpimp, I think what you really need is a good old Soundcraft Venue, preferably loaded with theatre 2 inputs ( those auxes that switch pre post on the front). The Trident is nice, but I would probably spend more on the case than on the console. If it was going mobile at all! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 20:07:26 GMT -6
I'd be looking to use a few of the pre's and definitely the EQ, any specific reason you don't or rarely use them? There are several distributors over in Europe so I can definitely get a hold of one.. Although a part of me just thinks forget the whole desk thing for now and save up for a Trident 68. By the time I've saved up for one though they'll have probably discontinued it. If I was your gearpimp, I think what you really need is a good old Soundcraft Venue, preferably loaded with theatre 2 inputs ( those auxes that switch pre post on the front). The Trident is nice, but I would probably spend more on the case than on the console. If it was going mobile at all! Nah, it'll definitely stay in the studio for the entirety of its existence. I've been thinking about the whole return to console thing for years now and TBH I haven't got a clue which direction I'd like to take. That's a lot money to put into something, will it REALLY sound THAT much better than my Shelfords / 6176 into a decent converter / ITB for the rest? Will I use it enough? (Rhetorical question there).. Is it going to be a workflow PITA? Will it, just like the Zed-R16 slowly but surely end up as a brick because it didn't add enough over ITB to become a necessity? Is this whole console thing just nostalgia? At the moment I have some spare rack equipment that's essentially doing nothing (PCM-92 / Eventide / Manley Nu-Mu), I need some more I/O for instruments plus some more channel strips and a new Apollo X8 costs the same as the SSL Big Six. Plus I'm not super keen on the Apollo, it's fine enough though.. The SSL would dip my toe into the ocean so to speak but it could also introduce more problems than it's worth. P.S thanks everyone for sticking with this, I've obviously reached an audio equipment mid life crisis  .. |
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