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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 15, 2021 12:26:10 GMT -6
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Post by Omicron9 on Nov 15, 2021 12:37:50 GMT -6
Vibe/atmosphere piece for studio?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 15, 2021 12:57:53 GMT -6
Certainly cheap, but seriously can it pass audio quietly, is the psu on, could be a nice door stop ?
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Post by Guitar on Nov 15, 2021 13:02:08 GMT -6
Yamaha is a great brand. Clean it up and use it! If you have a use for it. And more importantly, have space to set it up.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 15, 2021 13:04:06 GMT -6
Spend your money on a great meal instead.
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Post by mcirish on Nov 15, 2021 13:49:59 GMT -6
I'd pass unless you have a lot of extra space to keep it. I like Yamaha a lot but I don't see this mixer as being all that special. If it was being used for a rehearsal room, it might be a good choice but for a studio, I'd pass.
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Post by svart on Nov 15, 2021 13:58:01 GMT -6
As someone who just moved on from a much much better mixer, you just don't need it to work efficiently. It's fun to learn and use physical mixers but ultimately the time and money spent to get them set up, hooked up and debugged is better spent on learning other things.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 15, 2021 14:12:18 GMT -6
Good responses. I especially like the "buy a meal instead" suggestion.
I think my thought process is really more around just wanting to have a project. Not that I don't have enough already.
I have a buddy (actually, the founder of my day-job-company) who just built a pretty serious stage in his backyard and is going to be putting together a live PA pretty soon. Maybe that's the excuse I need! I just ran sound for him on a rented all-in-one job with like 8 channels at it was... difficult.
That said, maybe I'm just bored today and should work on making music instead. haha
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Post by Guitar on Nov 15, 2021 14:32:40 GMT -6
Good responses. I especially like the "buy a meal instead" suggestion. I think my thought process is really more around just wanting to have a project. Not that I don't have enough already. I have a buddy (actually, the founder of my day-job-company) who just built a pretty serious stage in his backyard and is going to be putting together a live PA pretty soon. Maybe that's the excuse I need! I just ran sound for him on a rented all-in-one job with like 8 channels at it was... difficult. That said, maybe I'm just bored today and should work on making music instead. haha "I need a project" can multiply, pretty quickly, into huge piles of stuff, things that need to be worked on. Don't ask me how I know X_D |
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Post by enlav on Nov 15, 2021 14:37:37 GMT -6
As much as I lust over hardware/analog gear in the recording realm, for Live Sound, I have trouble recommending against digital solutions when at more affordable budgets. There's just so much value built into digial mixers (whether they rely on mobile devices for UI or have adequate control built-in). Don't get me wrong, not badmouthing the MG series or anything in this range; it's just that for the purposes of a PA system, I'd want to have some outboard gear that would probably cost more than the board would.
If you'd prefer to be hands on, and not dealing with an ipad or phone; I'd be curious to see what the used market looks like; the Presonus Studio Live lineup has been updated multiple times, making me think there's probably some cheap ones out there. Wouldn't be surprised to see something like an X32Compact or QU16 well below 1K on the used market.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 15, 2021 15:21:28 GMT -6
As much as I lust over hardware/analog gear in the recording realm, for Live Sound, I have trouble recommending against digital solutions when at more affordable budgets. There's just so much value built into digial mixers (whether they rely on mobile devices for UI or have adequate control built-in). Don't get me wrong, not badmouthing the MG series or anything in this range; it's just that for the purposes of a PA system, I'd want to have some outboard gear that would probably cost more than the board would. If you'd prefer to be hands on, and not dealing with an ipad or phone; I'd be curious to see what the used market looks like; the Presonus Studio Live lineup has been updated multiple times, making me think there's probably some cheap ones out there. Wouldn't be surprised to see something like an X32Compact or QU16 well below 1K on the used market. Excellent points. Are the digital effects on these things usable? I suppose for live performances (in particular ones that are more likely to be private events in an outdoor space, such as this) the bar is a bit lower. Specifically though, are the compressors and limiters usable? I've got a light touch on reverb and such anyway so not as worried about that stuff. |
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Post by christopher on Nov 15, 2021 15:44:59 GMT -6
sound wise, analog is better for reinforcement. Sounds really great for a wired mic like a 58 and passive speakers. Once you go wireless mics though the advantage is over, better to just get a digital board and use a ton of effects. The thing I liked most about digital live boards was endless compressors and adjustable low pass filters and high shelfs, so I could roll off the nasty aliasing.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 15, 2021 16:14:30 GMT -6
sound wise, analog is better for reinforcement. Sounds really great for a wired mic like a 58 and passive speakers. Once you go wireless mics though the advantage is over, better to just get a digital board and use a ton of effects. The thing I liked most about digital live boards was endless compressors and adjustable low pass filters and high shelfs, so I could roll off the nasty aliasing. Use case here would be bands and solo acts. Maybe the occasional DJ set or synth type thing. Definitely wired mics. |
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Post by christopher on Nov 15, 2021 21:52:15 GMT -6
I just noticed it has onboard effects. Yeah that could be fun and handy for small PA type stuff, has built in reverb. Simple and easy to use. Likely sounds pretty good, Yamaha does make good stuff. I don’t mean to steer you wrong, there’s just something I love when I hear a clean, direct signal. Another use could be zero latency cue mixes . Where you’d find trouble is to make even a decent modern full band mix that people are used to, you need plenty of compressors, parallel compression, gates, and then 31 band EQs for each output to the mains and floor monitors. All that is built into a digital board. And then you can save/recall scenes, and mix from an iPad while you walk around. Even song by song can have different mix, recall it from the stage. I’ve seen a number of greatly mixed bands at small low volume gigs without anyone runnnig a board, even one band who didn’t even have a board, just a rack version. It was fully mixed, sounded like parallel compression, nodes zapped, mics EQ’d, effects, mains tuned, the whole 9 yards all from that little rack unit. Something like this… although the one they had used XLR input not digital snakes www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M32C--midas-m32c-digital-rackmount-mixer |
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Post by bluegrassdan on Nov 15, 2021 22:09:35 GMT -6
Gross.
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Post by jmoose on Nov 16, 2021 0:17:37 GMT -6
Club I mixed at a few times, filling in for a buddy now and then had that yomama board. It was amazingly unspectacular.
And it already has a couple dead channel? Unless you need a lotta channels for a cheap PA system keep moving. Even then its probably more of a liability then anything else.
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Post by enlav on Nov 16, 2021 9:02:34 GMT -6
Are the digital effects on these things usable? I suppose for live performances (in particular ones that are more likely to be private events in an outdoor space, such as this) the bar is a bit lower. Specifically though, are the compressors and limiters usable? I've got a light touch on reverb and such anyway so not as worried about that stuff. The two channels of effects are "passable." I never used effects on these as an artistic choice, more to thicken or assist vocalists. Oh, and sometimes snare or some percussion if the genre/song calls for it? But that's always on the second effects send. If it's a solo guitarist, and the guitar just doesn't sound right through the PA, I may try and get creative with the second send on something like a chorus to liven it up just slightly. But generally, using a light touch as you note is a good rule of thumb in this particular situation.
The compression that is available on the first X number of channels will tame dynamic singers to an extent, but I'd be wary using it too much without GEQ's on your wedges.
And that's really the big thing; the small bars and makeshift venues that would have mixers like this would usually have a rack with GEQs and dynamics. Depending on the PA/amps, something to protect blowing out the speakers. New powered speakers may have built-in protections that do that for you. Maybe new speakers even have DSP that will ring themselves out for you? |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 16, 2021 9:10:40 GMT -6
Are the digital effects on these things usable? I suppose for live performances (in particular ones that are more likely to be private events in an outdoor space, such as this) the bar is a bit lower. Specifically though, are the compressors and limiters usable? I've got a light touch on reverb and such anyway so not as worried about that stuff. The two channels of effects are "passable." I never used effects on these as an artistic choice, more to thicken or assist vocalists. Oh, and sometimes snare or some percussion if the genre/song calls for it? But that's always on the second effects send. If it's a solo guitarist, and the guitar just doesn't sound right through the PA, I may try and get creative with the second send on something like a chorus to liven it up just slightly. But generally, using a light touch as you note is a good rule of thumb in this particular situation.
The compression that is available on the first X number of channels will tame dynamic singers to an extent, but I'd be wary using it too much without GEQ's on your wedges.
And that's really the big thing; the small bars and makeshift venues that would have mixers like this would usually have a rack with GEQs and dynamics. Depending on the PA/amps, something to protect blowing out the speakers. New powered speakers may have built-in protections that do that for you. Maybe new speakers even have DSP that will ring themselves out for you? Wow. Self ringing speakers? It’s enough to consider doing live sound again. |
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Post by enlav on Nov 16, 2021 9:18:24 GMT -6
Wow. Self ringing speakers? It’s enough to consider doing live sound again.  Just to be clear - I'm not saying they exist, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did in some form. Automatic Feedback Suppressors have been a thing for a long time (some better than others). I know various manufacturers have been using DSP for things like RTA measurement and adjustment, as well as protection.. though I feel like AFS at the console makes more sense. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 16, 2021 10:38:52 GMT -6
Wow. Self ringing speakers? It’s enough to consider doing live sound again. Just to be clear - I'm not saying they exist, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did in some form. Automatic Feedback Suppressors have been a thing for a long time (some better than others). I know various manufacturers have been using DSP for things like RTA measurement and adjustment, as well as protection.. though I feel like AFS at the console makes more sense. They should exist. And somebody needs to make them exist. The feedback suppressor on my Fishman Aura is some kind of crazy voodoo. Works a charm. |
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Post by christopher on Nov 16, 2021 13:48:56 GMT -6
Of all the POS mixers I've come across, the one I actually would love to screw around with again is a Peavey XR-1200. I used to have one, got it for like $300 in the 90's, sold it for $100 a few years later.. has built in power amp so only need to put some passives up, actually sounded pretty tight and robust for basic PA duties. Also has some graphic EQ for the mains. The real reason I loved it, has a built in Spring Reverb that decayed for days.. go over and kick that thing for special effects. USA made too I believe www.ebay.com/itm/313718236840?hash=item490b1066a8:g:0GUAAOSwopFfGj2z |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 16, 2021 13:55:17 GMT -6
Of all the POS mixers I've come across, the one I actually would love to screw around with again is a Peavey XR-1200. I used to have one, got it for like $300 in the 90's, sold it for $100 a few years later.. has built in power amp so only need to put some passives up, actually sounded pretty tight and robust for basic PA duties. Also has some graphic EQ for the mains. The real reason I loved it, has a built in Spring Reverb that decayed for days.. go over and kick that thing for special effects. USA made too I believe www.ebay.com/itm/313718236840?hash=item490b1066a8:g:0GUAAOSwopFfGj2z Sends and returns on all 12 inputs? No silly gimmicks? What appears to be functional graphic EQ? Routing aplenty? Why doesn't somebody make something like this now? Just a straightforward box with usable EQ, lots of insert options, lots of routing options. I guess because nobody knows how to use a board like that anymore? |
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Post by christopher on Nov 16, 2021 14:08:19 GMT -6
We only had 2 mics, ran bass direct. The thing I loved about it though, recording song ideas direct to cassette with the spring, then go to the car and drive around and listen. My voice would be super rich and warm, extremely thick and the spring very vintage. I didn't know it then but for 2 channels I was fine, too bad I knew nothing about gain staging or ground loops. I just needed more channels on the recorder. Giving that up and switching to computers and digital verbs, I suddenly sounded horrible and it pretty much killed my inspiration. Instead of me focusing on music it started me on the gear hunting train to figure out why I sound so bad and how to improve things. Well its never that simple, but there is some truth there. Tape+spring+70's designs equals noise/distortion but also some sweetness I guess. Would love to mess around again now that I know how to use it. Someday maybe
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 16, 2021 16:03:40 GMT -6
We only had 2 mics, ran bass direct. The thing I loved about it though, recording song ideas direct to cassette with the spring, then go to the car and drive around and listen. My voice would be super rich and warm, extremely thick and the spring very vintage. I didn't know it then but for 2 channels I was fine, too bad I knew nothing about gain staging or ground loops. I just needed more channels on the recorder. Giving that up and switching to computers and digital verbs, I suddenly sounded horrible and it pretty much killed my inspiration. Instead of me focusing on music it started me on the gear hunting train to figure out why I sound so bad and how to improve things. Well its never that simple, but there is some truth there. Tape+spring+70's designs equals noise/distortion but also some sweetness I guess. Would love to mess around again now that I know how to use it. Someday maybe My first reverb was running my vocal through a fender deluxe in parallel on my Tascam 424. No digital harshness there. LOTS of other things though. Haha. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 19, 2021 13:02:06 GMT -6
Good responses. I especially like the "buy a meal instead" suggestion. Did you get a meal or the mixer? |
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Just to be clear - I'm not saying they exist, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did in some form. Automatic Feedback Suppressors have been a thing for a long time (some better than others). I know various manufacturers have been using DSP for things like RTA measurement and adjustment, as well as protection.. though I feel like AFS at the console makes more sense.