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Post by bossanova on Nov 12, 2021 10:41:59 GMT -6
Fly Like an Eagle. Take The Money and Run. Jet Airliner.
How does one get this sound today? I know there's the old cliche that you would need all of the elements in a time machine to go back to that room and that day, but there has to be some sort of modern analog chain that can get you a little closer. (I have a stem of “Fly Like an Eagle” vocals that I’ll attach in a follow up.)
I know Steve's voice passed through:
An EV15 in a Lindley control room rather than a live room or booth
Tracked and Mixed on API Console with the console Pre's
Shure Level-Loc for level control during tracking, printed to tape
Tape
It has that thing that Greg from UBK has described as "dead, without modern hyped presence, but with air". It's smooth yet crispy without being distorted at the same time. It has more fundamental than a modern male vocal yet everything is pretty much balanced across the spectrum and there aren't any weird harmonics or resonances sticking out. It has body and air but it doesn't sound brittle. Everything smoothly rolls off starting after 5k in a way that just sounds muffled to me trying to replicate it with modern filters.
The biggest problem I hear compared to my home setup is the relative clarity of the low mids. I use 4-inch thick gobos and they do wonders for deadening high and even low-mid reflections, but that lean, solid “body” isn’t quite there, even with EQ.
Could one get anywhere close to this kind of thing in modern times with a dynamic mic, a treated room, good analog pre, and an outboard limiter? Or is that another path where it’s best to strive for sounds that aren’t based in the tape-era?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 12, 2021 11:45:49 GMT -6
Well, he was a great singer. That kind of helps. Laid back, smooth, and effortless.
And to my ears most of that stuff sounds double tracked although I haven’t listened in a long time.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 12, 2021 11:53:27 GMT -6
You don't say so, but I assume you're trying with an RE-15/16? A lot of what you are describing matches that mic. Shure Level-loc sounds dubious in provenance for that era, but could be true.
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Post by ragan on Nov 12, 2021 12:00:15 GMT -6
Always sounds like heavy 1176 to me. Thought I remember reading he used a Rev A a lot on vocals.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 12, 2021 12:07:25 GMT -6
You don't say so, but I assume you're trying with an RE-15/16? A lot of what you are describing matches that mic. Shure Level-loc sounds dubious in provenance for that era, but could be true. Yeah, the Level Loc was a podium mic thing, and I'm not sure studio guys in the 70s were even aware of it. I suppose it's possible. It also isn't an insertable device. It's a mic pre and compressor. The API console pres are mentioned above. The old EV re/pl mics are really great, and might be a bigger part of things. Plus there's Steve Miller's voice and approach. I always got the impression that he doesn't sing all that loudly, and that has a lot to do with his tone, naturally and how mics react to it. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Nov 12, 2021 12:18:44 GMT -6
I know that Glyn Johns talks a lot about working with Steve Miller in his book but, I can't remember right off if it was during the Fly Like an Eagle Period or earlier. It might be worth checking out what he has to say.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 12, 2021 12:20:58 GMT -6
Plus there's Steve Miller's voice and approach. I always got the impression that he doesn't sing all that loudly, and that has a lot to do with his tone, naturally and how mics react to it. This times 100x! If I had to guess, Steve Miller could probably have gotten the same "sound" with a lot of different chains. Doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it, just means I wouldn't pull my hair out trying to get it "perfect". Imagine if you were listening to Elvis and saying "what signal chain did they use to get that rich, full sound?" It's not that the mic/pre/comp/whatever do NOTHING, it's that the signal source does the most. |
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Post by bossanova on Nov 12, 2021 12:44:49 GMT -6
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Post by jaba on Nov 12, 2021 13:31:43 GMT -6
Reading the article I wonder if they used a Shure SE30. Its compressor I believe is the same as the Level-Loc, but has four inputs and one output like they mentioned.
I had one given to me years ago but have yet to use it vocals.
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Post by bossanova on Nov 12, 2021 14:21:39 GMT -6
Plus there's Steve Miller's voice and approach. I always got the impression that he doesn't sing all that loudly, and that has a lot to do with his tone, naturally and how mics react to it. This times 100x! If I had to guess, Steve Miller could probably have gotten the same "sound" with a lot of different chains. Doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it, just means I wouldn't pull my hair out trying to get it "perfect". Imagine if you were listening to Elvis and saying "what signal chain did they use to get that rich, full sound?" It's not that the mic/pre/comp/whatever do NOTHING, it's that the signal source does the most. I’m definitely not trying to clone it perfectly. It’s more that I hear desirable qualities (thick/full but not wooly tone, pleasant harmonics without distortion or pokey mids, controlled dynamics without harsh tonal artifacts) that I’m not getting in the same way from the combination of my current mics or ITB chains. It’s something like, “I know what a voice sounds like in a room, this recording has qualities that were clearly added by the recording chain on top of that. What are some things I can do to add 1 or 2 of those same broad characteristics to my own recorded tracks?” I know the only real answer is to keep making music, try some gear, and see if it gives me the sound I’m looking for. If it’s out of reach, that’s okay too. I do not have an RE15 to record with. I think I missed the boat on that one. |
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Post by gouge on Nov 12, 2021 14:31:27 GMT -6
a big part of the sound i hear is tape compression and distortion on the vocals to jet airliner.
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Post by jmoose on Nov 12, 2021 14:41:56 GMT -6
I've never really dug into any of the Steve Miller albums & pulled them apart like other things... but IIRC a lot of his stuff sounds doubled. Its not an artificial double, not exact enough plus I'm not sure boxes like a Dimension D / Eventide / TC Chorus were even around in 1976. Would guess he sang it.
Always kinda thought of those vocals as a little thin & crispy myself. Its not a "big" sound and the double is giving some size & presence in the mix.
Dunno. Doesn't seem all that special to me? Lotta times when an element sticks out, like the vocals... they're sticking out because of other things in the arrangement. Its like Bonzo/Zep drums... they're not actually "that big" - but other production elements give them a lot of space.
FWIW - how many people know that Jet Airliner is actually a cover? Paul Pena wrote it, Steve made it famous.
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Post by srb on Nov 12, 2021 15:40:43 GMT -6
I've never really dug into any of the Steve Miller albums & pulled them apart like other things... but IIRC a lot of his stuff sounds doubled. Its not an artificial double, not exact enough plus I'm not sure boxes like a Dimension D / Eventide / TC Chorus were even around in 1976. Would guess he sang it. Always kinda thought of those vocals as a little thin & crispy myself. Its not a "big" sound and the double is giving some size & presence in the mix. Dunno. Doesn't seem all that special to me? Lotta times when an element sticks out, like the vocals... they're sticking out because of other things in the arrangement. Its like Bonzo/Zep drums... they're not actually "that big" - but other production elements give them a lot of space. FWIW - how many people know that Jet Airliner is actually a cover? Paul Pena wrote it, Steve made it famous. Took 30 years for "New Train", Pena's album containing 'Jet Airliner' to be released. Pena was also an accomplished Mongolian throat singer. |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 12, 2021 15:54:49 GMT -6
Guessing usually Plate reverb used for his vocals?
Thanks, Chris
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Post by christopher on Nov 12, 2021 17:12:00 GMT -6
Just took a quick listen to Eagle, sounds like there’s a 30ips tape delay. 30ips delay was really common in the 70s, I can’t really nail that sound with plugins, as soon as you do it on tape it’s like “oooooooh”
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Post by yotonic on Nov 12, 2021 20:45:48 GMT -6
Don't forget that in those days, studios had Engineers, and guys rode the faders on vocals, still the best way to get a present vocal, better than compressing.
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Post by bossanova on Nov 12, 2021 21:09:56 GMT -6
Just took a quick listen to Eagle, sounds like there’s a 30ips tape delay. 30ips delay was really common in the 70s, I can’t really nail that sound with plugins, as soon as you do it on tape it’s like “oooooooh” I actually got a very nice 30ips delay from Satin in the interim. Again, not a 100% match but very much enhancing the vibe in that direction. |
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Post by bossanova on Nov 12, 2021 21:12:56 GMT -6
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Post by chessparov on Nov 12, 2021 21:51:18 GMT -6
Don't forget that in those days, studios had Engineers, and guys rode the faders on vocals, still the best way to get a present vocal, better than compressing. So... A cleaner Slate. Chris |
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Post by yotonic on Nov 12, 2021 22:11:56 GMT -6
That mic channel is cranked, and it also sounds like it has an 1176 on it. Obviously doubled, and great control over mouth noises etc., because it's hot. He's singing in the classic "conversational style" of a lot of pop vocalists; Rob Thomas etc. |
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Post by christopher on Nov 12, 2021 23:08:20 GMT -6
Ok yeah, sorry that is totally a double, and very tight! A lot of times they liked to do flanging too and it can be sort of similar vibe when I've tried it. I haven't experienced someone that tight on a double without editing ITB I don't think.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 13, 2021 0:44:00 GMT -6
Reading the article I wonder if they used a Shure SE30. Its compressor I believe is the same as the Level-Loc, but has four inputs and one output like they mentioned. I had one given to me years ago but have yet to use it vocals. The compressor in the SE30 is much like a Level Loc. I think there's a set screw for adjusting it... Don't forget that in those days, studios had Engineers, and guys rode the faders on vocals, still the best way to get a present vocal, better than compressing. Yet, this one has one of the most drastic compressors EVER on it. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 13, 2021 11:08:07 GMT -6
I heard a podcast with Steve (maybe Maron or Lefsetz can’t remember) where he said he cut basic tracks with a drummer and bassist, then went home and did everything else himself as he wasn’t happy with being at the studio. Seems like stories aren’t lining up haha.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 13, 2021 11:33:14 GMT -6
Wherever you are, it can still be... Miller Time. I might get a chance to record some Steve Miller style vocals, for fun... Today (or tomorrow). Probably just on an EV 767a through a Scarlett 3rd Gen. But will try to get close anyway. (the 767a takes Processing well) Grew up on his stuff.  Chris P.S. Might also give me a chance to try out, the Real Traps PVB that recently arrived. |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 13, 2021 11:48:58 GMT -6
Man the Paul Pena version slays.
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