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Post by jmoose on Oct 31, 2021 23:17:58 GMT -6
I've not experienced the c37a as dark... that word isn't in my vocabulary.
More inclined to call it smooth. It's not a Neumann top end... never gets sibilant. It's one of the reasons why those who know love em.
Will pull up a song where I know we used the c37 on a number of things... it's all over the record but a couple 3 songs stand out where it was used a bunch.
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 1, 2021 4:13:24 GMT -6
I've not experienced the c37a as dark... that word isn't in my vocabulary. More inclined to call it smooth. It's not a Neumann top end... never gets sibilant. It's one of the reasons why those who know love em. Will pull up a song where I know we used the c37 on a number of things... it's all over the record but a couple 3 songs stand out where it was used a bunch. Looking forward to hearing that! If anyone here is looking for a good vocal example of the 37a, check out the record, “Changing Horses” by Ben Kweller. The 37 was his personal favorite vocal mic from what I was told. 99.9% sure that’s what he is using on this record. If anyone knows I’m wrong, please correct me.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 1, 2021 6:03:50 GMT -6
I think the Le Noise album by Neil Young had a Sony mic on vocals? Produced by Dan Lanois. Really cool sound.
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Post by jhsmastering on Nov 1, 2021 7:09:03 GMT -6
My band's producer has an original 37a, which we used in conjunction with a KU5A on mando for one album. It got great tone for that application FWIW. I know it is difficult to put these things in words. What did the original 37a do for the mando? I use ribbons on mandolin and love it - like samars, aea44s, etc. But what would a 37a provide that a ribbon mic would not? Thank you for any help with this. He only used it on the first album we did with him, a single we did later he used a single KU5A by itself, and then this past album tracking session, he used an original 67. He didn't have the 67 when we tracked the first album, so I'm not sure if he would have used the 37a if he had had the 67. I never really asked him about it that first time, mainly because of nerves lol. He's a very well-known Nashville producer, and we were just thrilled to be in the room working with him...so I did more observing than asking questions. From what I could hear and where it was placed, it got the woody tone he was looking for from the body of the mando. He placed it lower than the bridge, between the bridge and tailpiece, just off of the lower f-hole, about 8 inches away. The ribbon was pointed at the end of the fingerboard just inside the neck joint, above the line where the strings cross the body, just off of the upper f-hole, about the same distance. It got amazing tone to my ears, I can PM you a link if you want to hear at least the finished product. I'm not sure what the 37a would have provided that the ribbon would not, but my guess would be that he wanted the condenser mic tone capture instead of the the ribbon tone capture on that part of the instrument. Just an educated guess on my part.
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Post by roundbadge on Nov 1, 2021 8:36:28 GMT -6
I'm very curious about the Mojave - they make killer mics. I owned the Tonelux for a couple days and returned them to VK. They did not sound good at all or on anything in my space. I believe one of the tubes was bad right off the bat but neither sounded good. The owner of Tonelux told me he and JC had a difference of opinion on which tube to use in the production and he won out over Joe's choice. The tube Joe wanted was not rated for as many hours and Tonelux was primarily concerned about service issues. I have to say based on what I heard I have a strong feeling Joe's choice was probably better for tone. Regardless, they did not strike me as $2000 quality mics and I was grateful for VK's return policy. I had a beautiful basically nos pair of one owner c37a’s up until a couple years ago. Got the Tonelux here and immediately sent it back. Sounded broken.
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 1, 2021 10:39:05 GMT -6
Really sucks to hear all this about the Tonelux! Also glad I didn't buy one a few months ago. Very curious to hear how this Mojave sounds once they get into the hands of some people, although they are a bit out of my budget.
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Post by jmoose on Nov 1, 2021 14:37:25 GMT -6
Did this a number of years ago... one of my favorite tracks on the album. Had kind of a standard setup that's glued in my head...
Basically a take with some underdubs. Maybe 2 cut together? Band played live, no headphones leakage and all. First guitar solo is live. End was dubbed.
Mixed ITB... Digital Performer w/lots of UAD plugs. Fairchild & Massive Passive on the 2-mix. Only reverb is an EMT140. Maybe a little space echo here & there?
Drums - kick D12 snare 57 OH are 414b/uls. Bass - Reddi or U5 w/RE20 on amp SVT 8x10 Guitar - 409 & SM57 - amps varied but usually Fender. Twin, tweed 4x10 bassman... etc B3 & Leslie - 409's on top. Bottom?
The C37A bits?!
Vocals - Lead & female backing/double Fiddle - C37A played by Tim Carbone of Railroad Earth fame Drum reamp - Snare & little kick (the 'point') reamped through a 55 or 56 tweed deluxe... C37 like a foot and a half back? Whurli - Same as drum reamp. Tweed deluxe & mic pulled back Shakers & percussion... tambourine vibraslap etc - All Sony all the time
Probably a few things I'm forgetting but that's the basic picture...
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 1, 2021 14:52:35 GMT -6
Did this a number of years ago... one of my favorite tracks on the album. Had kind of a standard setup that's glued in my head... Basically a take with some underdubs. Maybe 2 cut together? Band played live, no headphones leakage and all. First guitar solo is live. End was dubbed. Mixed ITB... Digital Performer w/lots of UAD plugs. Fairchild & Massive Passive on the 2-mix. Only reverb is an EMT140. Maybe a little space echo here & there? Drums - kick D12 snare 57 OH are 414b/uls. Bass - Reddi or U5 w/RE20 on amp SVT 8x10 Guitar - 409 & SM57 - amps varied but usually Fender. Twin, tweed 4x10 bassman... etc B3 & Leslie - 409's on top. Bottom? The C37A bits?! Vocals - Lead & female backing/double Fiddle - C37A played by Tim Carbone of Railroad Earth fame Drum reamp - Snare & little kick (the 'point') reamped through a 55 or 56 tweed deluxe... C37 like a foot and a half back? Whurli - Same as drum reamp. Tweed deluxe & mic pulled back Shakers & percussion... tambourine vibraslap etc - All Sony all the time Probably a few things I'm forgetting but that's the basic picture... Sounds killer. Was this done in the home studio or somewhere else?
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Post by jmoose on Nov 2, 2021 15:27:23 GMT -6
Sounds killer. Was this done in the home studio or somewhere else? Have ears & gear will travel! Tracked in a large-ish room with something like 25 foot ceilings. When you've got people using big amps at volume... tweed bassman, Leslie 147, SVT, etc there needs to be a certain amount of physical space for things to breathe and not turn to mush. Hesitate to say it was a "real room" because its a private studio with very modest gear... not a lot of outboard. Basically just an old Soundcraft for preamps and some mics... mixing ITB w/ UAD. Nothing too fancy. Get the players making good sounds & don't fuck it up!
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Post by theglow on Nov 3, 2021 8:52:55 GMT -6
The C37A isn’t a dark mic, it’s just somewhat recessed where other mics have presence peaks (around 3kHz and 7khz). Consult the attached photos for frequency response charts of both the original C37A and my matched pair of Tonelux JC37s. The only big difference between them is up at the very top; the JC37 has a lift there, although nothing about it sounds overly bright or sizzly… More like adding a bit of Maag AirBand EQ to an original C37. These qualities make the JC37 my first pic for vocals, as it’s flattering on more voices than any other mic I’ve ever used. I also used it to track a plethora of acoustic guitars recently, and every engineer those tracks have landed with has contacted me asking about the tracking chain because they were so impressed. These are A-List Nashville folks that are certainly better at capturing acoustic instruments than I’ll ever be! The Tonelux is just killer, especially for the price.
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Post by enlav on Nov 4, 2021 9:34:26 GMT -6
MA-37 Sample posted a few days ago on youtube.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 4, 2021 10:35:47 GMT -6
MA-37 Sample posted a few days ago on youtube. Sounds pretty cool, and along the lines of the C37a I've used in the past.
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Post by tkaitkai on Nov 4, 2021 11:20:49 GMT -6
That sounds really good. I wish they hadn't used a windscreen on the vocal mic, sounds a tad muffled to me. Still really nice, though.
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Post by ab101 on Nov 4, 2021 13:12:01 GMT -6
That sounds really good. I wish they hadn't used a windscreen on the vocal mic, sounds a tad muffled to me. Still really nice, though. Agree. I also wish there was a comparison with some other mics. While this sounded good, I am not sure that this means that the Mojave mics were the best choice or even one of the better choices.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 4, 2021 14:20:48 GMT -6
That sounds really good. I wish they hadn't used a windscreen on the vocal mic, sounds a tad muffled to me. Still really nice, though. Agree. I also wish there was a comparison with some other mics. While this sounded good, I am not sure that this means that the Mojave mics were the best choice or even one of the better choices. Well then they might be selling someone else's mic! I'm sure there will be some shootouts once more of these get out into the wild.
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Post by timcampbell on Nov 4, 2021 16:24:27 GMT -6
Well this demo sounds exactly as I expect it to. A bit like a ribbon with less detail and a bit like a condenser without the forward push. A C37 can be tweeked to sound more like a C12. I think this is marketed and priced to compete with the Manley. I have never looked at the preamp in Manley's to see how similar it is to the Sony but I remember trying it when it came out and scratching my head. i was completely underwhelmed.
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Post by enlav on Nov 4, 2021 16:37:53 GMT -6
Well this demo sounds exactly as I expect it to. A bit like a ribbon with less detail and a bit like a condenser without the forward push. A C37 can be tweeked to sound more like a C12. I think this is marketed and priced to compete with the Manley. I have never looked at the preamp in Manley's to see how similar it is to the Sony but I remember trying it when it came out and scratching my head. i was completely underwhelmed.
Referencing the silver manley?
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Post by timcampbell on Nov 4, 2021 16:39:17 GMT -6
Yes. They share the same capsule.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 4, 2021 16:43:46 GMT -6
Well this demo sounds exactly as I expect it to. A bit like a ribbon with less detail and a bit like a condenser without the forward push. A C37 can be tweeked to sound more like a C12. I think this is marketed and priced to compete with the Manley. I have never looked at the preamp in Manley's to see how similar it is to the Sony but I remember trying it when it came out and scratching my head. i was completely underwhelmed.
This doesn't surprise me. You are know for making one of the BEST CK12 style capsules. The upper extension, and sparkle are the main "features/attributes" of that capsule. The C37a is in many ways, the anthesis of that. BTW, not meant as a dig AT ALL. I have tons of respect for what you do and the things you say.
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Post by timcampbell on Nov 4, 2021 16:53:34 GMT -6
This doesn't surprise me. You are know for making one of the BEST CK12 style capsules. The upper extension, and sparkle are the main "features/attributes" of that capsule. The C37a is in many ways, the anthesis of that. BTW, not meant as a dig AT ALL. I have tons of respect for what you do and the things you say. No offense taken. It is true that I'm known for that. All capsules though are my true passion. I have rebuilt many Sonys as well as almost every type including every weird variant I can get my hands on.
I personally know engineers who love C37's and they have been used on some great vocalists. I think Hendrix used one.
They are a cathode follower with a very damped backplate and a high polarization voltage. Yes the anthesis of a C12.
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Post by ab101 on Nov 4, 2021 18:47:47 GMT -6
I do not think the 37a is for me. If I want a ribbon, I have Samar and AEA choices. And both Samar and AEA can have a lot of detail and beauty as well! I always wanted a Blackspade UM25c with Tim's capsule but they are hard to find.
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Post by enlav on Nov 9, 2021 8:08:27 GMT -6
I think I actually learned more from the performance than the demo. Like, tapping on the brush to induce different articulations on the head? I am not a percussionist, so maybe that's a common practice...
Aside from that, nothing too inspiring from this clip, but like I said, not a percussion guy. The tambourine didn't make me want mute, so there's that.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 10, 2021 12:28:18 GMT -6
I think I actually learned more from the performance than the demo. Like, tapping on the brush to induce different articulations on the head? I am not a percussionist, so maybe that's a common practice...
Aside from that, nothing too inspiring from this clip, but like I said, not a percussion guy. The tambourine didn't make me want mute, so there's that. Yeah, that is cool. Wally's a badass!
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Post by Guitar on Nov 10, 2021 12:42:51 GMT -6
I've gotta get some brushes! Never thought to play a djembe that way.
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Post by ab101 on Nov 10, 2021 14:51:52 GMT -6
I have seen someone play the djembe with two brushes and it was amazing. But this is the first where I have seen the tapping of the brushes themselves! Amazing. I like tambourines with skins - like riqs. I suppose this mic may be really good for that, but so is a non-compromising Samar VL37 for a whole lot less money.
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