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Post by M57 on Dec 21, 2021 9:50:25 GMT -6
I've been spending HOURS watching a listening to overviews, reviews and tutorials, and it's somewhat frustrating that most all of them are geared toward the film scoring crowd, with little or no attention accorded to songwriter or contemporary band genres. It almost makes me feel like I'm considering the wrong product for the job.
Right now I'm leaning toward getting the Spitfire SSO Chamber Strings. Of course, they make it such that you might as well get the woodwinds and brass editions unless you want to play double the money to buy them separately.
I'm going to go back and revisit the Chris Hein strings/orchestras.
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Post by popmann on Dec 22, 2021 10:35:26 GMT -6
GAS induction.
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Post by M57 on Dec 22, 2021 11:48:52 GMT -6
Hmm..Tempting.. The price is reasonable. The sound is incredible, gritty, and very rock and roll, but perhaps too iconic for me if that makes any sense. The first set of chords that were played in the demo screamed Elenor Rigby ..it was scary. The vibe of that studio is so perfectly duplicated that I feel like I'd all too easily be caught up in a derivative space as a composer. Pretty weird, huh? I'm sure there's a good reason, but I don't understand why Spitfire has two very different GUIs for their products. This is the one they use with their free libraries (which I have played with a little bit), but after watching videos of their symphonic and chamber orchestras and seeing the power and workflow of those GUIs, I don't know that I'm a fan of this one.
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Post by svart on Dec 22, 2021 12:28:23 GMT -6
Wow. 1K$ just to start. They do sound good though.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 22, 2021 20:36:05 GMT -6
Wow. 1K$ just to start. They do sound good though. Really? I must not have gotten the full picture, is this an add on to a core product that you also have to buy?
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Post by popmann on Dec 22, 2021 21:17:00 GMT -6
I think he means something besides the Abbey Road Two...which is $399 for the "big" Pro version. Uses their new proprietary player like all their new stuff will.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 22, 2021 21:42:56 GMT -6
I think he means something besides the Abbey Road Two...which is $399 for the "big" Pro version. Uses their new proprietary player like all their new stuff will. Have you had a chance to compare it with Hollywood Opus? I do like the Opus player - having used the East West "Play" player for a number of years.
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Post by popmann on Dec 22, 2021 22:42:48 GMT -6
I don't have Abbey Road Two. Nor anything with the new EW player. I have the old East West QLSO. Not installed for years. I think I DID put the latest PLAY on computer when I built it three (?) years ago, and quickly removed the libraries. The Hollywood strings were still big smarmy strings if I remember.
This incites GAS for me for a very specific reason--I've used Elenor Rigby as an example of iconic pop strings that literally can't be done well with say 90% of "string samples"...maybe more...they're all aimed at, um "composers" for music for video (and games)...it seemed to be to be a serious lack, given how many people I know who write songs and want strings--end up with something like East West or those lite VSL orchestral things--and they don't work because they never HAVE. Sure--Linda Ronstadt did that one pop record with a real orchestra--but that was NOVEL...most pop/soul/country strings are relatively small sections. So you had to kind of use solo strings in combination with some smaller chamber or divisi sections...mix and match libraries on a per song basis.
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Post by Chad on Dec 23, 2021 22:33:56 GMT -6
I don't have Abbey Road Two. Nor anything with the new EW player. I have the old East West QLSO. Not installed for years. I think I DID put the latest PLAY on computer when I built it three (?) years ago, and quickly removed the libraries. The Hollywood strings were still big smarmy strings if I remember. This incites GAS for me for a very specific reason--I've used Elenor Rigby as an example of iconic pop strings that literally can't be done well with say 90% of "string samples"...maybe more...they're all aimed at, um "composers" for music for video (and games)...it seemed to be to be a serious lack, given how many people I know who write songs and want strings--end up with something like East West or those lite VSL orchestral things--and they don't work because they never HAVE. Sure--Linda Ronstadt did that one pop record with a real orchestra--but that was NOVEL...most pop/soul/country strings are relatively small sections. So you had to kind of use solo strings in combination with some smaller chamber or divisi sections...mix and match libraries on a per song basis. Checked out the Abbey Road Two and I agree with everything you’re saying here popmann ^^^. On a tech note: I’m actually more inclined to get the “lite” version instead of pro simply due to the data footprint being so much smaller. Chad
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 24, 2021 7:14:17 GMT -6
I think Abbey Road 2 sounds stunningly good.
It's definitely a product aimed at re-creating a slice of rock n roll history.
If you're looking to time stamp your music with some "I am the Walrus" string quintet glissando's and "Eleanor Rigby" staccatos then this Library will get you there quicker than a Black Cab on Oxford Street in 1966 :-)
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Post by M57 on Dec 24, 2021 7:31:46 GMT -6
This has been so frustrating. It's a rabbit hole I tell ya'. The more I research, the more indecisive I get. Some of these orchestras, like EW Hollywood are over-the-top way too cinematic and easy to eliminate. I know I want smaller ensembles, but there are so many good choices for authentic 'classical' sounds. Chris Hein Solo or Ensemble and Spitfire Abby Roads or Chamber are contenders. But then I'm discovering some off the beaten path libraries, like Albion Solstice, which offer a unique but distinct set of sounds that will serve to set my compositions apart. The problem is that I don't necessarily want the sounds to dictate the music ..or do I? I feel like a squirrel caught in the middle of the road. Somebody just run me down and put me out of my misery.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 24, 2021 12:08:30 GMT -6
This has been so frustrating. It's a rabbit hole I tell ya'. The more I research, the more indecisive I get. Some of these orchestras, like EW Hollywood are over-the-top way too cinematic and easy to eliminate. I know I want smaller ensembles, but there are so many good choices for authentic 'classical' sounds. Chris Hein Solo or Ensemble and Spitfire Abby Roads or Chamber are contenders. But then I'm discovering some off the beaten path libraries, like Albion Solstice, which offer a unique but distinct set of sounds that will serve to set my compositions apart. The problem is that I don't necessarily want the sounds to dictate the music ..or do I? I feel like a squirrel caught in the middle of the road. Somebody just run me down and put me out of my misery. Sometimes more than one decision is good. I did listen to the Abbey Road Two and it does sound amazing for that small ensemble sound and it appears to be really easy to use. If it is not easy, then sometimes it does not get used, and that helps no one! I do not want East West Hollywood Opus to be thrown under the bus too much. It is not meant for the small ensemble. But it does have good solo instruments and it does make a complete orchestration easier - provided that one wants a complete orchestration. And I like it for brass and other things than just strings. Many people like East West Hollywood Opus - for what it does best for comprehensive orchestration - though it has its ups and downs that can be witnessed by these thousands of posts: vi-control.net/community/threads/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition-and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/So I do not want anyone wandering in here to think that Hollywood Opus is just some sort of crappy product. It is not. But any product is bad if it does not accomplish the purpose that one wants or if it too complex to use for some simple results that are desired. So for what I do related to string ensemble, Abbey Road Two appears to be fabulous, because it appears to allow some incredible sounds that are well miked and even gone to tape. I would still use Hollywood Opus (only because I have it) for brass, some solo strings, etc.
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Post by M57 on Dec 24, 2021 12:33:02 GMT -6
Yeah, I didn't mean to diss EW. It's just too big and cinematic for what I envision using it for. I'd say the same about the Spitfire Symphonic library as well. I do have to admit that I have a bad taste in my mouth from the old EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond edition. I found it very difficult to navigate through, and the concept of layering articulations just didn't make sense to me.
Abby Road is intimate and beautifully put together, but it just sounds dated to me. It feels strange to say that, but more traditional symphonic and chamber spaces sound more timeless in comparison, if that makes any sense.
Chris Hein Solo strings is on my short list as well because you can up the layer count and turn it into a small ensemble. The Spitfire and Chris Hein interfaces look the most intuitive to me.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 24, 2021 13:47:31 GMT -6
Yeah, I didn't mean to diss EW. It's just too big and cinematic for what I envision using it for. I'd say the same about the Spitfire Symphonic library as well. I do have to admit that I have a bad taste in my mouth from the old EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond edition. I found it very difficult to navigate through, and the concept of layering articulations just didn't make sense to me. Abby Road is intimate and beautifully put together, but it just sounds dated to me. It feels strange to say that, but more traditional symphonic and chamber spaces sound more timeless in comparison, if that makes any sense. Chris Hein Solo strings is on my short list as well because you can up the layer count and turn it into a small ensemble. The Spitfire and Chris Hein interfaces look the most intuitive to me. I hear you. The East West Hollywood Opus is for a niche crowd and as I said, mostly for people wanting full orchestration. Since I already have it, I will use if for brass and some solo strings, etc. I was disappointed that East West relied on a majority of older samples. ): I have never tried the Chris Hein Solo Strings. I would like to check it out.
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Post by popmann on Dec 24, 2021 13:59:42 GMT -6
I would absolutely REQUIRE the pro version of Abbey Road Two. One word: portamento. Strings without portamento transitions are not useable to me for pop music. There are too many times, my ear at least, wants them to slide between chords….i think there are other differences….mics? Tape recordings? More round robins? Anyway….maybe I just still feel burned by VSL….which the solo strings i would argue NEED the “extended” expensive version. But, no portamento is a deal breaker for me.
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Post by ab101 on Dec 24, 2021 15:57:27 GMT -6
I would absolutely REQUIRE the pro version of Abbey Road Two. One word: portamento. Strings without portamento transitions are not useable to me for pop music. There are too many times, my ear at least, wants them to slide between chords….i think there are other differences….mics? Tape recordings? More round robins? Anyway….maybe I just still feel burned by VSL….which the solo strings i would argue NEED the “extended” expensive version. But, no portamento is a deal breaker for me. As to Abbey Road Two: It appears that the pro version has eight mic positions and the regular just two. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) That can be a big difference. Anyway. having extra mic positions is critical in the Vienna Synchron editions. Plus they have so many great and expensive mics, and the pro is $100 off now --- And the portamento that Popmann mentioned.
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Post by Chad on Dec 29, 2021 15:26:03 GMT -6
I bookmarked this thread, and I've been trying to check in here & there to make sure I'm catching everyone's thoughts on Solo/Sparse string libraries. One I ran across the other day – and I'm not sure it's been mentioned yet – is the Virharmonic Bohemian Cello and Violin VI's. LINK: www.virharmonic.com/ They're presently on sale, so I grabbed each of them. These, along with the Abbey Road Two "Core" set, are probably all I need for what I hear in my head. Thought I'd post this review which was very informative, plus he includes really helpful demonstrations of these tools in action: (FYI: If you'd like to just "hear it" asap, skip to 11:43 in this video, as he riffs on that familiar violin piece from the Lord of the Rings trilogy.)
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Post by M57 on Dec 29, 2021 16:49:08 GMT -6
I finally made a decision. I will admit that in part I purchased the Spitfire Chamber Ensemble because Spitfire has it on a 40%-off sale. I bought the standard edition. As far as I can tell, the difference between it and the extended/professional version is basically the size of the download due to the extra mics, but the standard version comes with close mics, a set on the tree, and a set of room mics. That's all I need.
It's a pain to set up all the articulation sets in Logic for the different instruments, and I don't think I'm doing it quite right because some of the articulations don't select from the DAW on the fly, but I just bought it two days ago and I'm one of those annoying people who only open the owner's manual when it's an emergency.
Anyway, I managed to set it up well enough to get to work on a project that's been sitting on the shelf for about a year precisely because I felt it needed orchestration. I thought I'd share because it's more of an folk-art-rock style. I have a couple of other nits with it, but I'll hold off on the criticism because they may be user error related.. There's still a lot of work to be done and the SC file will get updated as I work on it. Right now, I want to tweak the lyrics, and the acoustic guitar tracks are new and raw and need more editing ..and some re-tracking in places, but they're getting the job done for now. There's still work to do on with the strings, but so far, I have to say I think the sound and size of the ensemble is just about perfect for the kind of music I write, and I just wanted to get this posted while they still have a sale going on.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/m57/goldilocks If I can squeeze a little more mileage out of this thread - I'm alway interested in any crits and especially suggestions folks may have. Does anyone think it could use drums or percussion??
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2021 10:49:11 GMT -6
This has been so frustrating. It's a rabbit hole I tell ya'. The more I research, the more indecisive I get. Some of these orchestras, like EW Hollywood are over-the-top way too cinematic and easy to eliminate. I know I want smaller ensembles, but there are so many good choices for authentic 'classical' sounds. Chris Hein Solo or Ensemble and Spitfire Abby Roads or Chamber are contenders. But then I'm discovering some off the beaten path libraries, like Albion Solstice, which offer a unique but distinct set of sounds that will serve to set my compositions apart. The problem is that I don't necessarily want the sounds to dictate the music ..or do I? I feel like a squirrel caught in the middle of the road. Somebody just run me down and put me out of my misery. IME, the sounds are always going to dictate the writing style. It's the nature of libraries - string libraries especially. I just bought the Spitfire Albion NEO library last night. I've got Albion 1-5 already. I think it will serve me better than Solstice - which I passed on as it seems very Celtic directed to me. (Not that that's a bad thing, just not what I needed.) At some point, I will get Solstice as well, but only when a project dictates. For strings, NEO seems quite good. The strings are divided up in divisi sections, so you can definitely get a more intimate sound with only A or B divisi. You might check that one out. I'm unsure of the brass and WW aspect of it. Strings are good, with the possible exception of spiccato's - which I need to check out further to see if it will suffice. BTW, have purposely not listened to Abby Road libs there. For good reason..... LOL
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2021 10:55:22 GMT -6
BTW - as a public service, and side but kinda related note - there's a KILLER walkthrough of AR studio 2 - which should not be confused with studio 1 on the spitfire youtube channel where they talk mics, room, consoles, history, etc. 30 minutes and quite interesting....
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Post by OtisGreying on Dec 30, 2021 17:21:59 GMT -6
Anyone have any experience using Spitfire Studio series in the context of a record? Pop, soul, etc. It's supposed to be a dry library with close mics in the pro version.
AB 2 looks great but I really want some brass, those Al green, curtis mayfield records all had some great brass
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 5, 2022 10:51:17 GMT -6
To the OP, I downloaded Chris Hein's compact strings last night which includes solo strings with about 1/3 of the available articulations. Whipped together a quick little test and, boy, so much easier than the stock Logic or S1 stuff. I was able to get a believable violin solo relatively quickly and I'm not good at this. In fact I've literally never tried to do MIDI strings until last week so I'm REALLY not good at it.
I'll post a link shortly. To my ears it's really convincing although that could just be because of how UNconvincing my previous attempts were.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 5, 2022 12:59:07 GMT -6
To the OP, I downloaded Chris Hein's compact strings last night which includes solo strings with about 1/3 of the available articulations. Whipped together a quick little test and, boy, so much easier than the stock Logic or S1 stuff. I was able to get a believable violin solo relatively quickly and I'm not good at this. In fact I've literally never tried to do MIDI strings until last week so I'm REALLY not good at it. I'll post a link shortly. To my ears it's really convincing although that could just be because of how UNconvincing my previous attempts were. These are literally all over my upcoming album. They are fantastic.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 5, 2022 13:10:31 GMT -6
To the OP, I downloaded Chris Hein's compact strings last night which includes solo strings with about 1/3 of the available articulations. Whipped together a quick little test and, boy, so much easier than the stock Logic or S1 stuff. I was able to get a believable violin solo relatively quickly and I'm not good at this. In fact I've literally never tried to do MIDI strings until last week so I'm REALLY not good at it. I'll post a link shortly. To my ears it's really convincing although that could just be because of how UNconvincing my previous attempts were. These are literally all over my upcoming album. They are fantastic. Can't wait to hear it, Vincent!!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 5, 2022 20:07:10 GMT -6
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