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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 9, 2021 10:43:46 GMT -6
I decided it would be cool to use Q-Capture/Clone to A/B my Prometheus hardware Pultec. The Prometheus provides the digital recall to be exact with settings, so I can clone it and call it up against Q-Clone very easily.
I threw on some quick somewhat extreme settings and A/B'd and while I am impressed how close Q clone gets in a hot second, it just isn't the same.
Maybe I'll post some files.
Not to open the can of worms, but I wonder if plugins and hardware will be some sort of Asymptote. Always closer but never there.
However, I will say that capturing these curves is cool because I could see still using them on BGV busses or some-such.
Now, I would be curious if waves would make a q-clone plugin that works on frequency response, harmonic distortion and compression curves in one. Hmmmm.
Then you get into Kemper territory where ethics are somewhat in question. You can buy hardware, clone it then return it...
Just thinking out loud.
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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 9, 2021 11:12:46 GMT -6
Now, I would be curious if waves would make a q-clone plugin that works on frequency response, harmonic distortion and compression curves in one. Hmmmm.Then you get into Kemper territory where ethics are somewhat in question. From what I understand, this is the basic premise behind how Acustica plugins work. They use a convolution-based process (i.e. impulse responses) that extracts the frequency, phase, and harmonic content of a specific setting on a piece of gear, and then go through the same process for every possible setting and/or combination of settings. But even then, the Acustica stuff isn't always bang-on, either. I'm not sure plugins will ever get there 100%, but maybe we don't need them to. |
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 9, 2021 11:34:13 GMT -6
Now, I would be curious if waves would make a q-clone plugin that works on frequency response, harmonic distortion and compression curves in one. Hmmmm.Then you get into Kemper territory where ethics are somewhat in question. From what I understand, this is the basic premise behind how Acustica plugins work. They use a convolution-based process (i.e. impulse responses) that extracts the frequency, phase, and harmonic content of a specific setting on a piece of gear, and then go through the same process for every possible setting and/or combination of settings. But even then, the Acustica stuff isn't always bang-on, either. I'm not sure plugins will ever get there 100%, but maybe we don't need them to.
I am not sure, but I have the impression that plug ins can do the trick.
The developer needs to push the boundaries.
I think these brands push it to see how close they get,
UAD FLA BRA PA (Not all plugs) DDMF
TDL Overloud
On the other hand some hardware is cool too. I may invest in an SSL fusion as soon my business is covering up more from the losses we did during the high of the pandemic.
IMO - It all comes down to a good compromise.... Everyone needs to find his own way....
Everybody is different...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2021 13:18:14 GMT -6
From what I understand, this is the basic premise behind how Acustica plugins work. They use a convolution-based process (i.e. impulse responses) that extracts the frequency, phase, and harmonic content of a specific setting on a piece of gear, and then go through the same process for every possible setting and/or combination of settings. But even then, the Acustica stuff isn't always bang-on, either. I'm not sure plugins will ever get there 100%, but maybe we don't need them to.
I am not sure, but I have the impression that plug ins can do the trick.
The developer needs to push the boundaries.
I think these brands push it to see how close they get,
UAD FLA BRA PA (Not all plugs) DDMF
TDL Overloud
On the other hand some hardware is cool too. I may invest in an SSL fusion as soon my business is covering up more from the losses we did during the high of the pandemic.
IMO - It all comes down to a good compromise.... Everyone needs to find his own way....
Everybody is different...
The Fuse stuff behaves wonderfully pushed. Try that with Sound Toys and it collapses into harshness much sooner, UAD collapses much sooner too. Waves? LOL can't push it at all. You will need to use a trim before and after a lot of the time too. Push the 376, 2c, federal, etc The Tokyo Dawn stuff gets insane when pushed hard. So does the Goodhertz and U-he. Satin can really be driven into and never sounds like it's breaking down until you shit out the tape or turn on the soft clipper. Chow Tape can literally sound like a broken tape machine that keeps working through the magic of algortihms. Just did some tests for fun because I noticed that PSP Avedis E27 hard clips above -12 dbfs but Fuse Vpre-376 can be PUSHED into the red really far before it collapses. Like I'd lead cymbals and kick a little bit lower than 0 VU of drive on it but sheet you can murder a bass guitar with it and it sounds good, way better than the PA Lindell Neve and API. vpre-376 can output over +25 db over 0 VU on its own meter without clipping. vpre-31 can take +30 db over 0 VU Vpre-562 grampian pa amp can only take about 5-6 db above 0 VU (-18 dfs) before clipping but it's instant tube drums. TCS-68 pre section can take over 20db before it even starts taking off the mid range transients then you can push it further. you can overload the pre like 36 db over 0 vu before even hitting the overload light, and then have 3 db of insane sweetspot before it hard clips. This is insane. JAPAN BUBBLE GEAR MODELS! WHERE'S MY FOSTEX MIXER CLONE? Gotta get the Color Module... Goodhertz Tupe in HQ mode you can frickin deck everything and it barely gets dirty. The TDR stuff you can frickin DECK and unless you select EXCITED or FUNKY in Slick EQ, it has INSANE amounts of THD and doesn't even alias. AT ALL. We can set MOLOT to output 100% THD and aliasing is still below -80 at 15 khz. There are "clean" analog compressors with a noise floor only slightly below that! And you'll never hear it, unlike lesser plugs with drum hits washed in grain because it's at 100% THD, is eviscerating the waveform, and sounds ridiculous. Dan |
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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 9, 2021 16:41:12 GMT -6
I am not sure, but I have the impression that plug ins can do the trick.
The developer needs to push the boundaries.
I think these brands push it to see how close they get,
UAD FLA BRA PA (Not all plugs) DDMF
TDL Overloud
On the other hand some hardware is cool too. I may invest in an SSL fusion as soon my business is covering up more from the losses we did during the high of the pandemic.
IMO - It all comes down to a good compromise.... Everyone needs to find his own way....
Everybody is different...
The Fuse stuff behaves wonderfully pushed. Try that with Sound Toys and it collapses into harshness much sooner, UAD collapses much sooner too. Waves? LOL can't push it at all. You will need to use a trim before and after a lot of the time too. Push the 376, 2c, federal, etc The Tokyo Dawn stuff gets insane when pushed hard. So does the Goodhertz and U-he. Satin can really be driven into and never sounds like it's breaking down until you shit out the tape or turn on the soft clipper. Chow Tape can literally sound like a broken tape machine that keeps working through the magic of algortihms. Just did some tests for fun because I noticed that PSP Avedis E27 hard clips above -12 dbfs but Fuse Vpre-376 can be PUSHED into the red really far before it collapses. Like I'd lead cymbals and kick a little bit lower than 0 VU of drive on it but sheet you can murder a bass guitar with it and it sounds good, way better than the PA Lindell Neve and API. vpre-376 can output over +25 db over 0 VU on its own meter without clipping. vpre-31 can take +30 db over 0 VU Vpre-562 grampian pa amp can only take about 5-6 db above 0 VU (-18 dfs) before clipping but it's instant tube drums. TCS-68 pre section can take over 20db before it even starts taking off the mid range transients then you can push it further. you can overload the pre like 36 db over 0 vu before even hitting the overload light, and then have 3 db of insane sweetspot before it hard clips. This is insane. JAPAN BUBBLE GEAR MODELS! WHERE'S MY FOSTEX MIXER CLONE? Gotta get the Color Module... Goodhertz Tupe in HQ mode you can frickin deck everything and it barely gets dirty. The TDR stuff you can frickin DECK and unless you select EXCITED or FUNKY in Slick EQ, it has INSANE amounts of THD and doesn't even alias. AT ALL. We can set MOLOT to output 100% THD and aliasing is still below -80 at 15 khz. There are "clean" analog compressors with a noise floor only slightly below that! And you'll never hear it, unlike lesser plugs with drum hits washed in grain because it's at 100% THD, is eviscerating the waveform, and sounds ridiculous. Dan Still figuring out my Tokyo Dawn stuff, but man the Fuse stuff is really great. Using the 373 limiter on lead vocals and other things mixing wet dry to taste. Wow. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 9, 2021 16:43:40 GMT -6
I'm still waiting for a plugin that can make the same "feels like art" effect as running a mix through my Otari with Ampex 406... I imagine some day it will be possible but... Suffice to say, there are reasons I will keep at least some pieces of gear around. Because they sound great and I can't find a digital version.
Back to Q clone, I think it's a useful tool though for certain EQ curves I may like from hardware.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 10, 2021 0:39:29 GMT -6
I'm still waiting for a plugin that can make the same "feels like art" effect as running a mix through my Otari with Ampex 406... I imagine some day it will be possible but... Suffice to say, there are reasons I will keep at least some pieces of gear around. Because they sound great and I can't find a digital version. Back to Q clone, I think it's a useful tool though for certain EQ curves I may like from hardware.
I may find it again on YT. There was an ABX test between the UAD plug in and the real tape machine. In blind AB I picked the plug in as the one supporting the music the most. It made the beat breath; it gave a nice sheen to the top end without sounding bad; the head bump was exactly what was needed for the song.... Yes I know many factors play role… But the video showed one more time that music is totally subjective. Blind ABX is a nice game to exclude my own wishful thinking. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 10, 2021 8:49:05 GMT -6
I'm still waiting for a plugin that can make the same "feels like art" effect as running a mix through my Otari with Ampex 406... I imagine some day it will be possible but... Suffice to say, there are reasons I will keep at least some pieces of gear around. Because they sound great and I can't find a digital version. Back to Q clone, I think it's a useful tool though for certain EQ curves I may like from hardware.
I may find it again on YT. There was an ABX test between the UAD plug in and the real tape machine. In blind AB I picked the plug in as the one supporting the music the most. It made the beat breath; it gave a nice sheen to the top end without sounding bad; the head bump was exactly what was needed for the song.... Yes I know many factors play role… But the video showed one more time that music is totally subjective. Blind ABX is a nice game to exclude my own wishful thinking. Very cool, would enjoy hearing that. |
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