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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 28, 2021 8:08:07 GMT -6
I've joined a new band/music project. Its the first time I've played with a band in 8 years. We're starting to record our practices and jam sessions and we're starting to crank out IG content. I just saw a Midas Venice F32 for sale for dirt cheap. It appears to be in really good condition. I'm kind of itching to buy it, its way bigger than we need (we'd do fine with 16 channels) but being able to run all the instruments into the mixer, get levels and sound to the PA and being able to record straight off the board seems like a great way to capture what we need.
I don't need top shelf quality sound but how are the preamps? The EQ? How does it compare to the usual suspects (Mackie, Allen & Heath etc). Any serious recording would be done at a bigger studio or in my home studio. Has anybody had issues using a firewire device like this with a firewire-thunderbolt adapter?
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Post by keymod on Sept 28, 2021 9:09:45 GMT -6
Jesse Cotou was using a Midas
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Post by Guitar on Sept 28, 2021 9:22:15 GMT -6
Good enough for Aphex Twin and Jcoutu, good enough for me! I'm interested in that board.
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Post by keymod on Sept 28, 2021 10:43:29 GMT -6
Good enough for Aphex Twin and Jcoutu, good enough for me! I'm interested in that board. Yeah, he only ditched it for a Rupert Neve..... |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014 
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Post by ericn on Sept 28, 2021 13:03:36 GMT -6
I've joined a new band/music project. Its the first time I've played with a band in 8 years. We're starting to record our practices and jam sessions and we're starting to crank out IG content. I just saw a Midas Venice F32 for sale for dirt cheap. It appears to be in really good condition. I'm kind of itching to buy it, its way bigger than we need (we'd do fine with 16 channels) but being able to run all the instruments into the mixer, get levels and sound to the PA and being able to record straight off the board seems like a great way to capture what we need. I don't need top shelf quality sound but how are the preamps? The EQ? How does it compare to the usual suspects (Mackie, Allen & Heath etc). Any serious recording would be done at a bigger studio or in my home studio. Has anybody had issues using a firewire device like this with a firewire-thunderbolt adapter? The non modular Midas consoles are nice sounding but built to a price point, it’s the pots and switches that die. You can’t tell the condition of these without trying them and honestly they often don’t give much warning they are going to give up the ghost. Unless you step up to say CADEC, Soundcraft Delta/ Venue or DDA your going to find the same issues. |
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Post by jmoose on Sept 28, 2021 13:08:51 GMT -6
Congrats on joining a band again. Did that myself several years ago, more through happenstance then anything I was actually seeking. One massive thing to consider here... Being recordists we're sort of automatically "the dudes" for rolling tape & archiving everything... Its easy enough to plug in mics and hit record, run multitrack but the million dollar question is do you actually need to? Sorting through all that data, multiple takes and 3 hour rehearsals becomes a massive slog fest and most people won't care or help. Personally I found things to be way more productive & easier on myself and everyone when I put up a stereo pair of mics in the room. Go "dead taper" style... run flat, tweak EQ later... add a limiter to get the volume up... then edit out all the bullshit. Its easy enough to visually edit talking vs big blocky waveforms. Anyway... The original Venice was a fine mixer and built in the UK. Spent many hours on them in all sorts of locations. Huge step above Smackie. Sounded like "a real desk" but geared for live audio not studio work. For example there's no real "center section" ... some of the aux sends are fixed pre-fader which is great for monitor mixing but not FX work etc. Preamps & recording out would be post gain, pre-EQ so if your doing multi-track its basically gain knob to output. If you aren't running monitors etc then 95% of the desk is useless. IIRC there are internal jumpers to mod for post EQ & post fader? Can't help with drivers & such. If your looking for something more modern/supported maybe look at a Presonus studiolive? They have an analog series. I bought one of their AR16's a handful of years ago for my live sound / bar band rig that replaced an aging smackie 1604 & was a step or 3 better. Honestly even though it can run multi-track I've never used it. As for the Midas sound... I was doing Clear Channel stuff for a while and this Joe Bonamassa track is my live 2-mix. Nothing more then Sm57s & 81's maybe a couple Oktava's. Standard live audio gear... dbx 1066 compressors etc. Midas to DAT machines. Only touch up was a bit of "mastering" to get the overall level raised. mooseaudio.bandcamp.com/track/the-river-live |
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Post by jpanderson80 on Sept 28, 2021 13:27:39 GMT -6
I've joined a new band/music project. Its the first time I've played with a band in 8 years. We're starting to record our practices and jam sessions and we're starting to crank out IG content. I just saw a Midas Venice F32 for sale for dirt cheap. It appears to be in really good condition. I'm kind of itching to buy it, its way bigger than we need (we'd do fine with 16 channels) but being able to run all the instruments into the mixer, get levels and sound to the PA and being able to record straight off the board seems like a great way to capture what we need. I don't need top shelf quality sound but how are the preamps? The EQ? How does it compare to the usual suspects (Mackie, Allen & Heath etc). Any serious recording would be done at a bigger studio or in my home studio. Has anybody had issues using a firewire device like this with a firewire-thunderbolt adapter? I used the F32 for years when I was doing mostly live and tracking work. Preamps are solid. EQ's are a bit cramped, but powerful and a breeze to make sound good. Connectivity with an adapter or two was not a problem in my experience at 48k. I had no issues with it. Only when I have larger mixing projects do I miss the ease of having a small desk like that. It's not a neve console, but it's not supposed to be... it's a live desk with recording capabilities. So, know those limits. But it sounds good and has the Midas umph. |
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Post by svart on Sept 28, 2021 13:40:58 GMT -6
Midas is made by the Behringer parent company FWIW..
But honestly, after going mostly ITB and being able to route and do things in software, I just can't see going back to a physical (digital?) mixer, especially one that can only do 48K at the price they command.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 28, 2021 14:10:39 GMT -6
Thanks guys, lots of great input here. I’d be primarily using it get a good balance going to our PA. But recording decent sounds for IG content is important too. I’d go digital but my band mates eyes would glaze over if I brought it a digital board…it needs to be easy enough that my drummer could make volume adjustments without getting a migraine lol.
The real reason I’m considering it is because I found one for stupid cheap Craigslist. I’m talking used Mackie cheap. But the more I think about it the more I don’t want a mixer that big, I’d be happy with a mackie onyx in all honesty but it’s hard to pass up when the Midas is cheaper!
Anyone use a Soundcraft MTK 22? It’s more the form/size I need/want.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 28, 2021 15:03:48 GMT -6
I've heard those Soundcraft MTK can be dodgy, when there's enough user feedback like that I just steer clear.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 17, 2021 12:07:47 GMT -6
Congrats on joining a band again. Did that myself several years ago, more through happenstance then anything I was actually seeking. One massive thing to consider here... Being recordists we're sort of automatically "the dudes" for rolling tape & archiving everything... Its easy enough to plug in mics and hit record, run multitrack but the million dollar question is do you actually need to? Sorting through all that data, multiple takes and 3 hour rehearsals becomes a massive slog fest and most people won't care or help. Personally I found things to be way more productive & easier on myself and everyone when I put up a stereo pair of mics in the room. Go "dead taper" style... run flat, tweak EQ later... add a limiter to get the volume up... then edit out all the bullshit. Its easy enough to visually edit talking vs big blocky waveforms. Anyway... The original Venice was a fine mixer and built in the UK. Spent many hours on them in all sorts of locations. Huge step above Smackie. Sounded like "a real desk" but geared for live audio not studio work. For example there's no real "center section" ... some of the aux sends are fixed pre-fader which is great for monitor mixing but not FX work etc. Preamps & recording out would be post gain, pre-EQ so if your doing multi-track its basically gain knob to output. If you aren't running monitors etc then 95% of the desk is useless. IIRC there are internal jumpers to mod for post EQ & post fader? Can't help with drivers & such. If your looking for something more modern/supported maybe look at a Presonus studiolive? They have an analog series. I bought one of their AR16's a handful of years ago for my live sound / bar band rig that replaced an aging smackie 1604 & was a step or 3 better. Honestly even though it can run multi-track I've never used it. As for the Midas sound... I was doing Clear Channel stuff for a while and this Joe Bonamassa track is my live 2-mix. Nothing more then Sm57s & 81's maybe a couple Oktava's. Standard live audio gear... dbx 1066 compressors etc. Midas to DAT machines. Only touch up was a bit of "mastering" to get the overall level raised. mooseaudio.bandcamp.com/track/the-river-liveThanks for the advice. I looked into the Presonus AR16c you mentioned. It seems to fit the bill perfectly. Right now it’s that or a new Mackie Onyx16 (when they come out). Were you comparing the Presonus to a first gen Mackie or to the Onyx series? I’m wondering how the newest generation of each compares to each other. |
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Post by jmoose on Oct 17, 2021 15:25:13 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice. I looked into the Presonus AR16c you mentioned. It seems to fit the bill perfectly. Right now it’s that or a new Mackie Onyx16 (when they come out). Were you comparing the Presonus to a first gen Mackie or to the Onyx series? I’m wondering how the newest generation of each compares to each other. I had a smackie 1604 VLZ pro I guess? Post red knob, pre Onyx. Never quite trusted the thing and always wondered if one day I'd go to power up and it wouldn't turn on or have some other problem... for instance the solo buss got kinda funky and would only work, I think AFL? So I traded it before it completely died. Point of reference... long time ago I used to do a lotta live audio. Big stuff, festivals and whatnot. Real Midas desks H3000... APB Dynasonic, Meyer arrays etc. These days I'm happily retired from that world. The Presonus analog caught my attention as being perfect for what I call the "worlds best shitty PA" - basically a glorified bar band rig. I have the AR16, couple smackie powered 12's for mains and pair of monitors... little drive rack of behringer stuff. No subs! I figure if we need more then that its time to call a real production company. One of the reasons I wanted an analog desk over a digital is because I don't want to be tied to the PA system... if it has knobs someone else can grab 'em and make a change. Preamps & EQ all work as expected. I've had full bands, drums & backline all miked up and its handled it. Sounds clean. Decent headroom for what it is. Big knobs that have decent space between them... no "bump factor" even if they do feel kinda cheesy. Nice touch is the aux masters are on faders like a "real desk" and the built in FX? Ehhh its a reverb. One less box to carry and patch in. For the handful of times a year the PA leaves my house its a great mixer. Obviously I wouldn't hesitate to recommend or buy it again. One thing is I just haven't recorded with it. Never plugged in the USB for multi-track so I have no idea how it works/sounds it that situation. I assume its fine..? Never even downloaded/registered the software! |
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Post by javamad on Oct 17, 2021 15:28:36 GMT -6
What about something like a Tascam Model 24? Record to SD card where you practice .. take it back to the studio on a memory card and work on the mixes? Seems pretty cheap? From the SOS review: "On the live-show side of things, you can record the sources unprocessed (or slightly compressed) while mixing for front-of-house and stage monitors, and you can take those recordings back to the studio for more detailed post-production work on the computer." ( SOS Review) |
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 17, 2021 16:20:37 GMT -6
Thanks jmoose, sounds kinda perfect for my needs. I’m gonna check and see when the Mackie will be in stock and will probably just end up with whichever I can get the best deal on.
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Post by brenta on Oct 18, 2021 14:06:53 GMT -6
I've got Midas Venice 320 that I use in the studio for extra preamps and EQs. That board is designed for live work and would be a major headache to try to mix on. The EQs are pretty decent and the preamps are really good, but not great. The only thing I don't like is the size. I would love to trade it straight up for a Venice 160 just to downsize. It was a killer value especially considering the Midas XL48 sells for over $1k.
I've got a soft spot in my heart for the Onyx preamps too. I'd say they are cleaner and give a faster transient--nice for drums and acoustic guitar--the Midas pres have some flavor tilted more towards a Nevish thing.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 19, 2021 12:30:02 GMT -6
I've joined a new band/music project. Its the first time I've played with a band in 8 years. We're starting to record our practices and jam sessions and we're starting to crank out IG content. I just saw a Midas Venice F32 for sale for dirt cheap. It appears to be in really good condition. I'm kind of itching to buy it, its way bigger than we need (we'd do fine with 16 channels) but being able to run all the instruments into the mixer, get levels and sound to the PA and being able to record straight off the board seems like a great way to capture what we need. I don't need top shelf quality sound but how are the preamps? The EQ? How does it compare to the usual suspects (Mackie, Allen & Heath etc). Any serious recording would be done at a bigger studio or in my home studio. Has anybody had issues using a firewire device like this with a firewire-thunderbolt adapter? I have one for a live board - the older version without USB. It's a great board. Be aware that it's really only 28 channels though - 4 or the channels are stereo. I hate it when manufacturers gudge on channel counts that way..... |
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 19, 2021 12:33:40 GMT -6
Thanks guys, lots of great input here. I’d be primarily using it get a good balance going to our PA. But recording decent sounds for IG content is important too. I’d go digital but my band mates eyes would glaze over if I brought it a digital board…it needs to be easy enough that my drummer could make volume adjustments without getting a migraine lol. The real reason I’m considering it is because I found one for stupid cheap Craigslist. I’m talking used Mackie cheap. But the more I think about it the more I don’t want a mixer that big, I’d be happy with a mackie onyx in all honesty but it’s hard to pass up when the Midas is cheaper! Anyone use a Soundcraft MTK 22? It’s more the form/size I need/want. Buy the Midas. Otherwise you'll probably regret it. It beats the pants off of any Mackie or cheaper Soundcraft. |
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 19, 2021 12:36:39 GMT -6
I've got Midas Venice 320 that I use in the studio for extra preamps and EQs. That board is designed for live work and would be a major headache to try to mix on. The EQs are pretty decent and the preamps are really good, but not great. The only thing I don't like is the size. I would love to trade it straight up for a Venice 160 just to downsize. It was a killer value especially considering the Midas XL48 sells for over $1k. I've got a soft spot in my heart for the Onyx preamps too. I'd say they are cleaner and give a faster transient--nice for drums and acoustic guitar--the Midas pres have some flavor tilted more towards a Nevish thing. I hate Makie preamps. Also they are definitely NOT the most reliable of mixers (extreme understatement.)
As far as size goes, it's a hell of a lot smaller than my Soundcraft DC2020 32 ch. studio board.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 19, 2021 13:03:01 GMT -6
Thanks guys, lots of great input here. I’d be primarily using it get a good balance going to our PA. But recording decent sounds for IG content is important too. I’d go digital but my band mates eyes would glaze over if I brought it a digital board…it needs to be easy enough that my drummer could make volume adjustments without getting a migraine lol. The real reason I’m considering it is because I found one for stupid cheap Craigslist. I’m talking used Mackie cheap. But the more I think about it the more I don’t want a mixer that big, I’d be happy with a mackie onyx in all honesty but it’s hard to pass up when the Midas is cheaper! Anyone use a Soundcraft MTK 22? It’s more the form/size I need/want. Buy the Midas. Otherwise you'll probably regret it. It beats the pants off of any Mackie or cheaper Soundcraft. I would have but it sold too fast...its was too good a deal, someone was going to jump. I don't hate the Mackie Onyx pres though. The mixers are built to a price point and if that's what you need/want its pretty ok. I do think the Onyx pres sound better than alot of the digital live mixers on the market. |
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 19, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -6
Buy the Midas. Otherwise you'll probably regret it. It beats the pants off of any Mackie or cheaper Soundcraft. I would have but it sold too fast...its was too good a deal, someone was going to jump. I don't hate the Mackie Onyx pres though. The mixers are built to a price point and if that's what you need/want its pretty ok. I do think the Onyx pres sound better than alot of the digital live mixers on the market. What I hate most about Mackies is that they fall apart worse than any other mixer I've dealt with in 40 years. They use the cheapest,flimsiest sliders and the other pots are none too great.
And their service policies suck.
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Post by mcirish on Oct 20, 2021 8:08:54 GMT -6
Why not get a Midas MR18 and a tablet to control it? I use the Behringer version of it for live work and it's been great. The preamps in the Midas are apparently better, but for the live shows I do, nobody but me would be able to tell the difference. Only caveat is the onboard wifi. It's crap. I use an external wireless router and never have any drops in connection.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 29, 2021 22:04:01 GMT -6
Update: A 16 channel Soundcraft Delta SR just came up for sale locally so today I snagged it. It’ll be a much better long term purchase.
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