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Post by indiehouse on Sept 18, 2021 6:28:09 GMT -6
Noticing something here and wanted to throw it out to see what you all think. I'm comparing the UAD SSL Buss comp to the stam 4k MKII buss comp on a drum buss. I'm noticing that with the plug, the L/R levels are pretty balanced. But with the Stam, I'm getting a wildly different, unbalanced response. You can see it in the snare hits especially, where the right channel jumps way above the left channel, causing the snare to shift and poke out more in the right side of the stereo image. Am I thinking about this wrong? What do you all think? I've made a short video demonstrating what I mean. |
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Post by miadaudio on Sept 18, 2021 8:38:11 GMT -6
Tried with a sinewave?
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Post by notneeson on Sept 18, 2021 8:57:54 GMT -6
The image is audibly leaning? Or just visually in your DAW?
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Post by EmRR on Sept 18, 2021 9:18:13 GMT -6
This could relate to the long running controversy over side-chain linking method in various SSL's and clones.
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Post by ragan on Sept 18, 2021 9:29:33 GMT -6
^^^ this was my first thought as well
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 18, 2021 10:31:30 GMT -6
Ya, I thought there was always an issue with how independent the dual mono or stereo signal path was ?
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 18, 2021 14:23:43 GMT -6
So, this is a dual mono compressor? Not stereo linked?
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 18, 2021 14:29:12 GMT -6
Not trying to confuse but I thought this was a perceived problem with the mki that I thought had been addressed in the mkii?
I just remember some comments about this on the internet about the mki in the past.
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 18, 2021 14:38:45 GMT -6
Yeah this is probably the great Side Chain topic of SSLs.
Originally SSLs atually have a stereo side chain
Clones have done a few different things:
The most common is a mono side chain. Which is from the imfamous Gyraf's schematic(GSSL). This is a mono side chain and this circuit is where most people get there first schemeatic. Later the "Turbo" mod was introduced which brought back the stereo side chain. However, it's not an unlinked side chain, the loudest signal wins, so if a crash happen on the left it pulls both channels down
A stereo side chain can cause image shifting vs a mono one so a lot of clone offer both still via a switch.
Stam lists theres as a fully stereo side chain. So the levels are probably behaving a bit differently.
As long as you can't hear it shifting though, it should be fine.
You could also have a level/calibration issue. I'd run tones through it to check that first.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 18, 2021 15:37:50 GMT -6
Test tone show a balanced L/R image.
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 18, 2021 15:39:40 GMT -6
Test tone show a balanced L/R image. Cool. So now I'd either contact Stam or open it up and calibrate it yourself you if can. Shouldn't be too hard. Just takes a bit of time. There are several places you can look up how to do this. DIY-RACKed has an SSL kit with a calibration setup. So does Serpent for the SB4000. Id imagine it's very similar you'd just have to know which pots to turn for what. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 18, 2021 15:46:10 GMT -6
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 18, 2021 18:12:19 GMT -6
Thanks. But L and R channels are sine level matched. Wouldn’t that mean that it’s calibrated properly! |
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 18, 2021 18:25:24 GMT -6
Thanks. But L and R channels are sine level matched. Wouldn’t that mean that it’s calibrated properly! no. The compression circuit could not be calibrated. It's the 2nd part of the calibration. Since you have to VCAs acting independently you need to make them match GR as much as possible. Can you hear a difference by the way? does it sound right heavy? |
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Post by miadaudio on Sept 19, 2021 1:54:33 GMT -6
Thanks. But L and R channels are sine level matched. Wouldn’t that mean that it’s calibrated properly! Do they match with heavy compression like 14-15db as in your example? |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 19, 2021 6:07:35 GMT -6
On FB yesterday Josh said in a Fairchild thread they have even better things coming! That should prove interesting.
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Post by mike on Sept 19, 2021 6:48:36 GMT -6
On FB yesterday Josh said in a Fairchild thread they have even better things coming! That should prove interesting.
Apologies for my reply here being off topic,..... but yes I remember him saying on FB the entire batch of the SA23's sold out and they will be retiring it, and that they are working on changing the product line for next year. I have a Stamchild 660 on order also that I'm guessing is in the same boat as it is no longer available on the web site, so I'm glad I ordered when I did. But it will be interesting to see how the product line evolves.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 19, 2021 6:58:40 GMT -6
Ya, the 660, will be good !
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 19, 2021 13:41:35 GMT -6
Thanks. But L and R channels are sine level matched. Wouldn’t that mean that it’s calibrated properly! Do they match with heavy compression like 14-15db as in your example? Heavy compression causes the levels to become unbalanced. Interestingly, if I back the compression threshold down to 4-6db of compression on the Stam, the levels are balanced and it sounds a lot closer to the UAD plug doing 13-16db of compression. |
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Post by miadaudio on Sept 19, 2021 14:10:50 GMT -6
Do they match with heavy compression like 14-15db as in your example? Heavy compression causes the levels to become unbalanced. Interestingly, if I back the compression threshold down to 4-6db of compression on the Stam, the levels are balanced and it sounds a lot closer to the UAD plug doing 13-16db of compression. Unless something is faulty, most likely VCAs need calibration (as previously suggested). I'm not very familiar with the SSL circuit but I wonder why would it need recalibration once it leaves the factory. Is this the case with all the SSL compressors? Something must be drifting, but what? Having greater mismatching as you increase the GR is pretty normal I think. |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 19, 2021 14:45:47 GMT -6
Heavy compression causes the levels to become unbalanced. Interestingly, if I back the compression threshold down to 4-6db of compression on the Stam, the levels are balanced and it sounds a lot closer to the UAD plug doing 13-16db of compression. Having greater mismatching as you increase the GR is pretty normal I think. Yep, and if it were calibrated for 15dB, then 2dB might be off which will really screw with a mix or master. Tube comps are especially variable in this regard. A plug-in can sim perfect tracking at all levels. |
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Post by ericn on Sept 19, 2021 17:20:26 GMT -6
With any Stereo Comp you really have to know what it is keying off and how it reacts. With the Grayf design there is always one trick that at times can solve some issues, reverse the channels.
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 19, 2021 18:15:38 GMT -6
Do they match with heavy compression like 14-15db as in your example? Heavy compression causes the levels to become unbalanced. Interestingly, if I back the compression threshold down to 4-6db of compression on the Stam, the levels are balanced and it sounds a lot closer to the UAD plug doing 13-16db of compression. yeah you need to re calibrate it. Follow the 2nd half of the instructions in the manual and all should be good. |
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