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Post by Quint on Sept 2, 2021 11:40:31 GMT -6
So you have the cheaper leather ones, or the more expensive one? From your comment about weight, it sounds like you have the more expensive metal one. I've got several models. The big heavy pricey ones (both older brass and newer chrome versions), and the little leather ones. And a bunch of inserts. I was a pretty early adopter, so i got a bit of a personal relationship with the guy that started the company, and then through a band i was touring with i got an endorsement deal, which sorta turned into me becoming a dealer (i had a side-business of selling a few specific musical instrument items up until last year). So i have most of their lineup of products; everything they made up till around 2017 or so. Nice to know. What are your favorite models and uses?
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 2, 2021 11:49:23 GMT -6
I've got several models. The big heavy pricey ones (both older brass and newer chrome versions), and the little leather ones. And a bunch of inserts. I was a pretty early adopter, so i got a bit of a personal relationship with the guy that started the company, and then through a band i was touring with i got an endorsement deal, which sorta turned into me becoming a dealer (i had a side-business of selling a few specific musical instrument items up until last year). So i have most of their lineup of products; everything they made up till around 2017 or so. Nice to know. What are your favorite models and uses? I tend to use the large heavy ones on snare (like i said earlier, they're super useful for 'tuning' the dampening), and the lightweight leather ones for toms (i tend to record most toms pretty 'open' so damping is usually just to control sympathetic ring; when i need a dry or dead tom sound, i select shell and heads+tuning accordingly). Sometimes I'll use the medium-weight metal ones on toms, but usually at that point I'm just going full gaffer-style.
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Post by mcirish on Sept 2, 2021 14:55:44 GMT -6
I have a simple and cheap way to do about the same thing. I use piece of felt that is cut 2" wide and about 3" long. I have about a 2" square of it actually resting on the head and I use a binder clip to hold the remaining 1" to the rim. The felt prevents the binder clip from scratching the rim. I leave the tab of the clip sticking up so if the felt ever bounces off the head too far, the clip will knock it back down. I gaff tape a washer or a piece of heavier thin foam to the top of the felt. Sometimes I tape a moongel to it. It works great for me. When you hit the snare or tom, the initial strike bounces the felt off the head and then falls back down to dampen the head. That and a few cotton balls in the floor toms really gives me a lively but controlled snare/tom sound.
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Post by enlav on Sept 2, 2021 15:08:34 GMT -6
That and a few cotton balls in the floor toms really gives me a lively but controlled snare/tom sound. Cotton balls just chilling in the drum... like, between the reso/batter heads? Interesting... *Takes notes*
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Post by Quint on Sept 2, 2021 16:00:16 GMT -6
I've tried the cotton ball thing too. The only thing that sucks is that, if you overshoot the amount of cotton ball related damping you desire, you gotta take the head off to get some of them back out of there.
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Post by mcirish on Sept 2, 2021 16:19:48 GMT -6
That and a few cotton balls in the floor toms really gives me a lively but controlled snare/tom sound. Cotton balls just chilling in the drum... like, between the reso/batter heads? Interesting... *Takes notes* I just flatten out (slightly) 3-4 cotton balls. They just hop around in there. I don't want them to do much except slightly shorten the reso head sustain. I can't remember who I learned that from. Jojo or ?
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Post by jmoose on Sept 2, 2021 18:39:48 GMT -6
Cotton balls inside the floor tom is an old trick been doing it forever myself. Just a handful, like a half dozen.
Moongels can last a long time I'll get a year out of a pack? When they do get crappy & un sticky wash em up with good old soap & hot water and be almost good as new. Can usually do that several times before they're totally worn.
Yeah sometimes they wander off but at $7 a pack it's never been a worry. I view them as a consumable... been guilty of leaving them behind on a house kit myself.
What honestly annoys me more then donating a couple moongels? I supply bottled water and people who grab one, take like 3 sips, then leave it somewhere random and grab another?! Totally grinds me but I haven't and won't stop having a case of water on hand.
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Post by schmalzy on Sept 2, 2021 23:46:08 GMT -6
I never realized there were moon gel alternatives though. I love the application/use of the product, but much like a lot of you, always hated their imperfections.
I noticed a few mentions of floor tom use; anyone using something like these weights or alternative gels for rack toms? Always felt like moon gels killed too much of the tail (unless you're going for that sort of sound, of course!), and sometimes we just don't have the time for me to poorly tune them when the drummer is worse at it than me.
My moongels are all cut into quarters or eighths. Smaller and in more places seems to leave more bright attack while giving me the varying level of control I want.
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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2021 7:40:33 GMT -6
Cotton balls inside the floor tom is an old trick been doing it forever myself. Just a handful, like a half dozen. Moongels can last a long time I'll get a year out of a pack? When they do get crappy & un sticky wash em up with good old soap & hot water and be almost good as new. Can usually do that several times before they're totally worn. Yeah sometimes they wander off but at $7 a pack it's never been a worry. I view them as a consumable... been guilty of leaving them behind on a house kit myself. What honestly annoys me more then donating a couple moongels? I supply bottled water and people who grab one, take like 3 sips, then leave it somewhere random and grab another?! Totally grinds me but I haven't and won't stop having a case of water on hand. Drum dots. They never get gooey. You just wash them with soap and water when they get dirty. They come in multiple sizes.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 3, 2021 9:08:52 GMT -6
I may have just googled what these look like and....
...why am I reminded of a talk box?
I never realized there were moon gel alternatives though. I love the application/use of the product, but much like a lot of you, always hated their imperfections.
I noticed a few mentions of floor tom use; anyone using something like these weights or alternative gels for rack toms? Always felt like moon gels killed too much of the tail (unless you're going for that sort of sound, of course!), and sometimes we just don't have the time for me to poorly tune them when the drummer is worse at it than me.
edit: Oh wow, there's actually a product called "the drum wallet" out there...
If a rack tom is ringy, I'll put moongell right near the rim or use the smaller snare weight because too far in does really kill the tone. I also keep an old, empty wallet handy for the Al Jackson thing. That and a few cotton balls in the floor toms really gives me a lively but controlled snare/tom sound. Cotton balls just chilling in the drum... like, between the reso/batter heads? Interesting... *Takes notes* Both my floor toms on the rock set have cotton balls inside and they STILL have long sustain. Cotton balls inside the floor tom is an old trick been doing it forever myself. Just a handful, like a half dozen. Moongels can last a long time I'll get a year out of a pack? When they do get crappy & un sticky wash em up with good old soap & hot water and be almost good as new. Can usually do that several times before they're totally worn. Yeah sometimes they wander off but at $7 a pack it's never been a worry. I view them as a consumable... been guilty of leaving them behind on a house kit myself. What honestly annoys me more then donating a couple moongels? I supply bottled water and people who grab one, take like 3 sips, then leave it somewhere random and grab another?! Totally grinds me but I haven't and won't stop having a case of water on hand. I switched to buying the short water bottles for that exact reason. Cotton balls inside the floor tom is an old trick been doing it forever myself. Just a handful, like a half dozen. Moongels can last a long time I'll get a year out of a pack? When they do get crappy & un sticky wash em up with good old soap & hot water and be almost good as new. Can usually do that several times before they're totally worn. Yeah sometimes they wander off but at $7 a pack it's never been a worry. I view them as a consumable... been guilty of leaving them behind on a house kit myself. What honestly annoys me more then donating a couple moongels? I supply bottled water and people who grab one, take like 3 sips, then leave it somewhere random and grab another?! Totally grinds me but I haven't and won't stop having a case of water on hand. Drum dots. They never get gooey. You just wash them with soap and water when they get dirty. They come in multiple sizes. Off to google drum dots. I have a good friend who buys the different window gels for various holidays. He said they're usually cheaper, and add a certain whimsy to the session.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Sept 3, 2021 9:29:54 GMT -6
Snareweight is about a quarter mile from my studio. I've known Matt since the mid 90s. Great guy. He gave me a couple of the original heavy brass ones when he was first starting out. I guess I'm one of the earliest adopters, though I haven't tried the newer versions or the leather-only ones. The brass ones with the leather inserts and leather "wings" have worked great in my studio. Something about that mass of brass gives a bigger sound than gels or other common dampeners. He told me he tried various materials and brass/leather had the best tone. IMO the price is worth it if you're a professional recording engineer or producer, or a session drummer.
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 3, 2021 9:45:59 GMT -6
Couple notes re: cotton balls and drum dots / gels.
Cotton balls are mostly useful for keep reso heads from vibrating sympathetically on bass drum hits. They help to decrease sustain and *some* drums, but they're more useful as a sort of natural "gate" for the bottom head sympathetic vibration. The top head is still where most of the action is taking place, so the tom will still ring out unless the batter head is dampened as well.
A good 'hack' for cheap gel dampeners is to go a dollar store and buy those 3-d stickers teachers put on grade school papers. They're usually like a buck a sheet, each sheet has like ten stickers, and they're basically the same material as the drum dots product. Plus, you get cool designs like rainbows and "A+!!" and shit. 🤣
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Post by jmoose on Sept 3, 2021 13:01:09 GMT -6
A good 'hack' for cheap gel dampeners is to go a dollar store and buy those 3-d stickers teachers put on grade school papers. They're usually like a buck a sheet, each sheet has like ten stickers, and they're basically the same material as the drum dots product. Plus, you get cool designs like rainbows and "A+!!" and shit. 🤣 That could be fun! Give the drummer an F... not even close enough for monkey toolz! lol Anywhoo... It strikes me as funny in a highly ironic way that there have been a lot of advances in drum gear all designed to increase sustain and resonance... Rims & isolation mounts... non & less drilled shells... lighter hardware that makes less shell contact... Couple years ago I had a guy coming in with goofy looking booties on his floor tom legs "because they increase sustain & projection!" Yet, then we go and slap moongel, tape and now these brass & leather contraptions all over the kit to decrease sustain & resonance..?! At the same time there's been incredible advances in heads and a thousand choices out there besides a coated ambassador. Remember years ago, seeing a clip of Butch Vig in a studio talking to the drummer behind the kit and you could clearly see the rack tom. Had a good old coated Remo with moongel's all around the perimeter... like a clock face. And all I could think is it seemed incredibly stupid. Ok maybe its giving them a sound they want. I get that. But if you want super dry why not use a super dry head instead of something lively and padding it down? Especially at that level where they have a full time drum tech on hand..? I'm more a fan of picking the right shells & head combinations to get what we're after. Like I've got a half dozen pretty rad snares and they all kind of live in their sweet spots. Maybe the tension goes up & down a little but if I need a totally different sounding drum in the track then I'll just swap it out. And if we need a little less sustain, the notes a hair too long I'll drop a piece or half a piece of moongel on... but if we want super dry? That's a different drum.
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Post by standup on Sept 3, 2021 13:09:19 GMT -6
My wife has the brass/leather weight on her snare, and I think it’s working for her. She tried other things, but this has stayed.
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Post by dok on Sept 4, 2021 1:18:34 GMT -6
One or two moving blankets folded up under a ringing floor tom goes a long way to keep the reso head from sympathetically vibrating too. It doesn't seem like it would do much, but it does!
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