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Post by mrholmes on Aug 19, 2021 10:43:11 GMT -6
My DA for the NS-10 blew up, wasn't something expensive.
And I do not want to buy something crazy good for the NS10s
I came across the SwissSonic DA and saw the measurements and was surprised. Nothing that is WoW, but it's nothing that is garbage. For 35 bucks, a no-brainer...
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Post by svart on Aug 19, 2021 12:46:49 GMT -6
Looks pretty good. SPDIF DACs are always the easier of the two to design. ADCs are harder due to the clocking.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 19, 2021 13:05:15 GMT -6
Looks pretty good. SPDIF DACs are always the easier of the two to design. ADCs are harder due to the clocking.
I did not know this, I always learn something here. THX.  There is no clocking in SPDIF DACs?
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Post by svart on Aug 19, 2021 13:17:45 GMT -6
Looks pretty good. SPDIF DACs are always the easier of the two to design. ADCs are harder due to the clocking.
I did not know this, I always learn something here. THX. There is no clocking in SPDIF DACs?
Not really. SPDIF/AES is biphase encoded. The data IS the clock source. The receiver will sync to the data frames and lock the PLL to the signal's bitrate. No external oscillators or crystals needed usually. |
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Post by woofhead on Aug 19, 2021 14:32:08 GMT -6
I didnt know swiss sonic was still around.I remember looking at multi channel converter boxes for 8 ch expansion to a fw interface around 20 years ago and the specs were great for the price, but havent heard the name since.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 19, 2021 15:17:20 GMT -6
I did not know this, I always learn something here. THX. There is no clocking in SPDIF DACs?
Not really. SPDIF/AES is biphase encoded. The data IS the clock source. The receiver will sync to the data frames and lock the PLL to the signal's bitrate. No external oscillators or crystals needed usually. OK, didn't know that, but it explains why my ADA 8000 worked well with the RME source. Did a test session today and to my ear it sounds good. Compared to the cheapo before, I think there is more depth and dimension... but may this is psychology....
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Post by cyrano on Aug 21, 2021 14:32:45 GMT -6
I didnt know swiss sonic was still around.I remember looking at multi channel converter boxes for 8 ch expansion to a fw interface around 20 years ago and the specs were great for the price, but havent heard the name since. It's not the same company. A few years after the original Swissonic company went bankrupt, Thomann acquired the brand name. |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 21, 2021 16:07:25 GMT -6
I didnt know swiss sonic was still around.I remember looking at multi channel converter boxes for 8 ch expansion to a fw interface around 20 years ago and the specs were great for the price, but havent heard the name since. It's not the same company. A few years after the original Swissonic company went bankrupt, Thomann acquired the brand name.
True, but I think it's still the same design ideas...
The AD works much better than expected - there is maybe a bit more depth and dimension on my RME AD. If money is tight.... I say go for it -- 100% no-brainer.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 28, 2021 5:02:38 GMT -6
I did not know this, I always learn something here. THX. There is no clocking in SPDIF DACs?
Not really. SPDIF/AES is biphase encoded. The data IS the clock source. The receiver will sync to the data frames and lock the PLL to the signal's bitrate. No external oscillators or crystals needed usually. BTW is there any technical difference between the light pipe input and the coax input. It's the same data stream, right? Are there advantages or disadvantages?
Thanks in advance....
A.
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Post by cyrano on Aug 31, 2021 13:35:03 GMT -6
Advantage of optical: complete electrical isolation - no ground loops.
Disadvantage of electrical (coax): different levels exist. Some devices might even blow with too much level. That's why fi RME has two levels for electrical spdif.
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Post by cyrano on Aug 31, 2021 13:50:11 GMT -6
It's not the same company. A few years after the original Swissonic company went bankrupt, Thomann acquired the brand name.
True, but I think it's still the same design ideas...
The AD works much better than expected - there is maybe a bit more depth and dimension on my RME AD. If money is tight.... I say go for it -- 100% no-brainer.
Thomann's been doing well with their house brands. tBone mics, "The box" speakers and amps and a few others. It's not that hard finding decent budget hardware in China. There's a local disco brand "JB Systems" (Beglec) that has been slowly climbing to fame over three decades. And another local success story: BiAmp just bought APart. APart has 75% of the local PA market. PA in this case as "restaurants, clubs and businesses. |
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Post by svart on Aug 31, 2021 14:05:58 GMT -6
Not really. SPDIF/AES is biphase encoded. The data IS the clock source. The receiver will sync to the data frames and lock the PLL to the signal's bitrate. No external oscillators or crystals needed usually. BTW is there any technical difference between the light pipe input and the coax input. It's the same data stream, right? Are there advantages or disadvantages?
Thanks in advance....
A.
Technically, no difference in protocol. Generally the TOSLINK transmitter or receiver are just paralleled with the coax which is generally run direct from the IC. There seems to be a spread of quality for the TOSLINK ports and I've seen a few that are only rated up to 48K where coax can go into the MHz and beyond. |
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Post by svart on Aug 31, 2021 14:08:49 GMT -6
Advantage of optical: complete electrical isolation - no ground loops. Disadvantage of electrical (coax): different levels exist. Some devices might even blow with too much level. That's why fi RME has two levels for electrical spdif. All SPDIF receivers are also AES receivers. There is no "two levels" as the receiver looks only for edge transitions, not peak voltage levels. 50 ohm vs. 75 ohm are simply a matter of termination resistors to match the cable. The receiver ports themselves are high impedance. |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 31, 2021 14:56:36 GMT -6
BTW is there any technical difference between the light pipe input and the coax input. It's the same data stream, right? Are there advantages or disadvantages?
Thanks in advance....
A.
Technically, no difference in protocol. Generally the TOSLINK transmitter or receiver are just paralleled with the coax which is generally run direct from the IC. There seems to be a spread of quality for the TOSLINK ports and I've seen a few that are only rated up to 48K where coax can go into the MHz and beyond.
Thanks Svart.
So the AD had a great performance but a bad QC. Stopped working out of the blue, my guesswork the 9 V DC PSU is going crazy.
Will order the Toping E30 now.
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Post by svart on Aug 31, 2021 14:57:46 GMT -6
Technically, no difference in protocol. Generally the TOSLINK transmitter or receiver are just paralleled with the coax which is generally run direct from the IC. There seems to be a spread of quality for the TOSLINK ports and I've seen a few that are only rated up to 48K where coax can go into the MHz and beyond.
Thanks Svart.
So the AD had a great performance but a bad QC. Stopped working out of the blue, my guesswork the 9 V DC PSU is going crazy.
Will order the Toping D 30 now.
That svartbox in the classifieds is still there I think.. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Aug 31, 2021 16:40:20 GMT -6
Thanks Svart.
So the AD had a great performance but a bad QC. Stopped working out of the blue, my guesswork the 9 V DC PSU is going crazy.
Will order the Toping D 30 now.
That svartbox in the classifieds is still there I think.. I think mrholmes has an 802... no coax spdif. |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 31, 2021 16:48:01 GMT -6
That svartbox in the classifieds is still there I think.. I think mrholmes has an 802... no coax spdif. AES would work too but is already in use. I just need a secondary DA which picks the ADAT out of my digtial monitor controller to run my NS10s. Svart box should find a better use .... |
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Post by svart on Sept 1, 2021 9:48:31 GMT -6
I think mrholmes has an 802... no coax spdif. AES would work too but is already in use. I just need a secondary DA which picks the ADAT out of my digtial monitor controller to run my NS10s. Svart box should find a better use .... Adat has terrible jitter specs. I personally wouldn't use it for monitoring DAC. |
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 1, 2021 14:42:19 GMT -6
AES would work too but is already in use. I just need a secondary DA which picks the ADAT out of my digtial monitor controller to run my NS10s. Svart box should find a better use .... Adat has terrible jitter specs. I personally wouldn't use it for monitoring DAC.
Didn't you say this depends on the signal which goes in first? Maybe I misunderstood you?
Further tc electronic states for the monitor controller:
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Post by svart on Sept 1, 2021 14:58:53 GMT -6
Adat has terrible jitter specs. I personally wouldn't use it for monitoring DAC.
Didn't you say this depends on the signal which goes in first? Maybe I misunderstood you?
Further tc electronic states for the monitor controller:
Not sure what you might have thought I said.. Anyway, just because a source can buffer and relock a signal (no such thing as jitter free, BTW), it doesn't mean the following device does. You say you want another device on an adat output. What if that device adheres to the original adat spec of up to 1ns acceptable jitter? That's about 10x what an acceptable modern commercial clock can do and 100x what a precision clock source can do. |
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 1, 2021 15:15:59 GMT -6
Didn't you say this depends on the signal which goes in first? Maybe I misunderstood you?
Further tc electronic states for the monitor controller:
Not sure what you might have thought I said.. Anyway, just because a source can buffer and relock a signal (no such thing as jitter free, BTW), it doesn't mean the following device does. You say you want another device on an adat output. What if that device adheres to the original adat spec of up to 1ns acceptable jitter? That's about 10x what an acceptable modern commercial clock can do and 100x what a precision clock source can do.
OK got it:
Re-clocking does not prevent low jitter in a following device.
Is SPDIF anything better in terms of low jitter signal transport?
I understand this right no AD DA signal is to 100% jitter free - all marketing talk?
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