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Post by mitchkricun on Aug 20, 2021 6:46:36 GMT -6
Not much to add here because most things gave been covered. Good source, good room, GOOD PLAYING are a given. If you donβt have that, good luck. I almost always use parallel compression and nuke the room. Making sure the phase is tight also a big one. Adding samples can really help too as many have pointed out. One thing I can add is, overcompressing can totally suck the life and depth out of a drum sound. If the drums are too dynamic, consider bringing the room mics up until the kit is more dynamically balanced, instead of adding more compression.
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shawnh
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by shawnh on Aug 20, 2021 7:28:45 GMT -6
Cool ideas here - I can't add much but I do have a question relative to something in the original post.
I have also seen it suggested that somehow reverb on an insert is different than reverb on a send. I have my doubts about this. I mean from a workflow standpoint or maybe just as a way of thinking about the sounds - yes it is a little different. However from a technical and sonic standpoint - would there be any difference with reverb on an insert vs. sending just that same track to a reverb? Of course mixing dry/wet the same etc. - it would be exactly the same right?
Now the question may get a little more interesting if you are sending multiple tracks/sounds to the same reverb. Does that somehow change how the reverb react to one of those tracks vs the same reverb on an insert on that track?
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 20, 2021 9:19:35 GMT -6
What are some of your go-to compression settings?
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Post by drumsound on Aug 20, 2021 9:20:23 GMT -6
Today I was mixing something that was mostly this slow minor riff, but there there's a turnaround where it feels like it will pick up, but then goes back to the durge-y riff. I did some clip gain to make that section bloom but just having the room mics get louder in the mix. Easy, peasy. No other drastic move works every time. truth
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Post by Ward on Aug 21, 2021 8:54:58 GMT -6
Last night, post-grunge band in. Live off the floor. Quick faders up mix. Kick In. RE27 - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Kick Out Neumann U47 FET - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Snare mic 1. Dynamic. Tfunk M80, or Beyer 201, maybe early beta 57 or Yammy M205be 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare mic 2. Condensor. AKG C460/ck1 cap, C451 or Noym KM84. 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare Bottom. Senn 441. Focusrite 428 preamp. hpf at 320 Mid Tom. Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Low Tom Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Hats. Beyer 201, Neve 33420. Hard HPF at 350hz. Ride. Noym 102, Grace pre, sometime touch Grace 102 comp Overheads. usually Beyer mc930 in XY, 1073 pre. BARELY USED OH 2. markfouxman 's Samar VL37, ISA428, hpf 80. 50% of the drum sound.Room Mics Pair of 87s, Traverse tube pre Audio: www.dropbox.com/s/c6l84sog1skp5uo/Harakari.demo.mp3?dl=0
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Post by gwlee7 on Aug 21, 2021 16:24:45 GMT -6
What's your technique to add depth and life to drums? What's your technique to add depth and life to drums? I was reading this article, www.izotope.com/en/learn/9-tips-for-using-reverb-with-drums.html, which discusses adding different types of reverb to different elements of the drum tracks to give them depth and width.
That article talks about adding a reverb plugin to the track (rather than a send) to "We donβt want the reverb to sit back in the mixβwe want it to be part of the sound. Thatβs why we use the insert approach here." Is that a thing?
I think a lot of self taught DAW learners do that. Never having to deal with a console with 6 sends and 2 reverb units (max) in the rack makes life a little different. I love when all I ever put on drums is a parallel comp and room mics. I happens a lot. I'm a complete make it happen in the simplest way possible and make it sound like humans played an instrument. I just let you worry about it. Need to send you some more songs.
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Post by dok on Aug 21, 2021 16:40:06 GMT -6
I just landed on something cool - lately I've been going with one mono overhead but just a bit above the drummer's right shoulder. I recently got a TLM67 and thought I'd try that out in that position and it was pretty good in cardioid, but what about omni? Even better!! Hmmm, okay, better A/B it with my trusty EV635a since we're going omni... damn, the TLM67 has great low and top end but the midrange is perfect in the 635a, why not both, panned hard LR? Voila. Two omni overheads about a foot apart (vertically) but hard panned. As 3D as you like.
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Post by audioscape on Aug 21, 2021 18:20:11 GMT -6
Last night, post-grunge band in. Live off the floor. Quick faders up mix. Kick In. RE27 - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Kick Out Neumann U47 FET - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Snare mic 1. Dynamic. Tfunk M80, or Beyer 201, maybe early beta 57 or Yammy M205be 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare mic 2. Condensor. AKG C460/ck1 cap, C451 or Noym KM84. 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare Bottom. Senn 441. Focusrite 428 preamp. hpf at 320 Mid Tom. Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Low Tom Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Hats. Beyer 201, Neve 33420. Hard HPF at 350hz. Ride. Noym 102, Grace pre, sometime touch Grace 102 comp Overheads. usually Beyer mc930 in XY, 1073 pre. BARELY USED OH 2. markfouxman 's Samar VL37, ISA428, hpf 80. 50% of the drum sound.Room Mics Pair of 87s, Traverse tube pre Audio: www.dropbox.com/s/c6l84sog1skp5uo/Harakari.demo.mp3?dl=0This band is GREAT, man!!! Definitely have a TON of potential! Everything live, off the floor; including vox? LOVE IT!!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 20:59:56 GMT -6
Last night, post-grunge band in. Live off the floor. Quick faders up mix. Kick In. RE27 - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Kick Out Neumann U47 FET - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Snare mic 1. Dynamic. Tfunk M80, or Beyer 201, maybe early beta 57 or Yammy M205be 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare mic 2. Condensor. AKG C460/ck1 cap, C451 or Noym KM84. 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare Bottom. Senn 441. Focusrite 428 preamp. hpf at 320 Mid Tom. Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Low Tom Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Hats. Beyer 201, Neve 33420. Hard HPF at 350hz. Ride. Noym 102, Grace pre, sometime touch Grace 102 comp Overheads. usually Beyer mc930 in XY, 1073 pre. BARELY USED OH 2. markfouxman 's Samar VL37, ISA428, hpf 80. 50% of the drum sound.Room Mics Pair of 87s, Traverse tube pre Audio: www.dropbox.com/s/c6l84sog1skp5uo/Harakari.demo.mp3?dl=0Production rules and is sufficiently mid to late 90s. Wow drummer is a beast........
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Post by Ward on Aug 22, 2021 7:38:03 GMT -6
Production rules and is sufficiently mid to late 90s. Wow drummer is a beast........ Many thanks. And yes, that drummer did that in one go, that was the second take. And in rare form, without a click.
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Post by audioscape on Aug 22, 2021 20:23:28 GMT -6
Production rules and is sufficiently mid to late 90s. Wow drummer is a beast........ Many thanks. And yes, that drummer did that in one go, that was the second take. And in rare form, without a click. π±π€π±π±π± WOW!!!! Mannnnnnnnnnnnn this band is AMAZING! ...must hear MOARRRR AS-IS - the single would slot RIGHT IN an early 90's Sub Pop sampler vinyl!! And we mean that in the BEST. WAY. POSSIBLE. πππ
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Post by Ward on Aug 23, 2021 3:02:24 GMT -6
Many thanks. And yes, that drummer did that in one go, that was the second take. And in rare form, without a click. π±π€π±π±π± WOW!!!! Mannnnnnnnnnnnn this band is AMAZING! ...must hear MOARRRR AS-IS - the single would slot RIGHT IN an early 90's Sub Pop sampler vinyl!! And we mean that in the BEST. WAY. POSSIBLE. πππ There'll be MOAR. (and with my modded and improved audioscape D-Comp! shhhh)
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Post by audioscape on Aug 23, 2021 11:53:02 GMT -6
π±π€π±π±π± WOW!!!! Mannnnnnnnnnnnn this band is AMAZING! ...must hear MOARRRR AS-IS - the single would slot RIGHT IN an early 90's Sub Pop sampler vinyl!! And we mean that in the BEST. WAY. POSSIBLE. πππ There'll be MOAR. (and with my modded and improved audioscape D-Comp! shhhh) π€π€ππ YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 23, 2021 13:19:51 GMT -6
Assuming a good drummer, I would use a classic kit. It would consist of two toms, a kick and a snare, with diplomat heads and minimal, i.e. no more than tissue paper and masking tape for damping. Microphones would be a main overhead with the low-end filled in by kick and snare spot microphones. I might add a front of kit microphone for bleed. A high overhead microphone would be used strictly as the only echo send.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 23, 2021 20:12:26 GMT -6
"What is turning the drum machine off?" (Sorry I'm preparing to be on "Jeopardy") Chris
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Post by Ward on Aug 23, 2021 20:28:01 GMT -6
Assuming a good drummer, I would use a classic kit. It would consist of two toms, a kick and a snare, with diplomat heads and minimal, i.e. no more than tissue paper and masking tape for damping. Microphones would be a main overhead with the low-end filled in by kick and snare spot microphones. I might add a front of kit microphone for bleed. A high overhead microphone would be used strictly as the only echo send. Professor, I'm more in-line with your mindset and opinion but more and more in this industry I'm getting from clients, mastering engineers, radio people, labels, PR etc "Turn the cymbals way down and turn the drums up. Nobody really wants to hear all that crashing and smashing" What are yours, and everybody else's thoughts, please?
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 23, 2021 22:04:00 GMT -6
I did say a good drummerβ¦ π
When Mickey Most asked me to duck the cymbals, I switched the main to figure eight and it worked great!
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Post by Ward on Aug 24, 2021 6:30:45 GMT -6
I did say a good drummerβ¦ π When Mickey Most asked me to duck the cymbals, I switched the main to figure eight and it worked great! Front of kit or mono overhead? Very curious!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 24, 2021 7:25:37 GMT -6
Mono overhead. Front of kit would be cardioid aimed away from it for adding bleed.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 24, 2021 12:02:39 GMT -6
Start with killer sounding drums. i love dry heads on snares. And then the right mics. Cut as much 325-350 as you can get away with and don't be afraid to HPF everything but the kick. Compress compress compress and then limit. My basic starting point for a nice 4-5 piece kit is: Kick In. Tfunk M82 or AKG D12e or RE27 - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Kick Out Neumann U47 FET - Focusrite 220, usual mid cut and limiter only set to 0 Snare mic 1. Dynamic. Tfunk M80, or Beyer 201, maybe early beta 57 or Yammy M205be 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare mic 2. Condensor. AKG C460/ck1 cap, C451 or Noym KM84. 1073, EQ notch out some 700-800, add some high end, hit a 76 Snare Bottom. Senn 441. Focusrite 428 preamp. hpf at 320 Hi Tom. Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Mid Tom. Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Low Tom Neumann U89 cardioid or wide cardioid, APi312, audioscape MEQ. That's it. Hit the EQ hard. Floor Tom Heiserman 47fet, occasionally an old D112. HPF @ 160, Boost on EQ, cut 350, add some 4k Hats. Noym 102, Neve 33420. Rarely deviate Ride. Noym 102, Grace pre, sometime touch Grace 102 comp Overheads. usually Beyer mc930 in XY, 1073 pre. OH 2. markfouxman 's Samar VL37, ISA428, hpf 80 Room Mics Pair of 87s, Traverse tube pre, audioscape D-Comp. Mono room, sometimes the @cseranno 87 crushed, sometimes the Heiserman H47T crushed. Always omni. I'm surprised you can get a decent drum sound with only 16 mics. I'm surprised you can get a decent drum sound with that MANY mics!
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