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Post by mrholmes on May 31, 2021 14:49:05 GMT -6
As much as I believe that plug ins are the future as much I won't go the subscription route again. I am alright with reasonable costs for an update which is equivalent to hardware maintenance. I am not OK with ridicules UPDATE PLANS ala WAVES....
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Post by gouge on May 31, 2021 15:46:41 GMT -6
I dont agree subscriptions are for weekend warriors. None of the weekend warriors i know use subscriptions.
Subscriptions are for the kids. Those that have no aspiration to buy a house because they are told they've been priced out of the market.
Their income is disposable. The uber generation who eat out every night.
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Post by Chad on May 31, 2021 19:24:00 GMT -6
Next up: Beer Subscriptions from the local brewery
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Post by popmann on May 31, 2021 20:08:10 GMT -6
I think the other side of this coin that isn't being considered is that the built in capabilities of DAWs have come light years from where they were when Waves and everyone of that era started making plug ins. Maybe Reaper and ProTools don't see it....but, I mixed an album a couple years ago for someone using LogicX ALMOST no third party plug ins. They have SO many good analog emulation and good reverbs STOCK....Cubase's 64bit "channel" sounds better than the plug in versions the algorithms share a UI/name with....
Mixbus32c is a good reverb and delay away from being most all one needs to mix A WELL TRACKED album....I get it--I get tracks I have to go into RX and fuck with the phase of lousy drum mic'ing....and it can't do drum sample triggering at all yet--but....I mean from the stand point of "mixing multitrack audio", they've "fixed the glitch" as far as I'm concerned. At least at 96khz. I remember thinking it was weird sounding at 44....but, since there's no reason to ever mix 44.1....
Anyway....I really still use some third party stuff....because I own it and I'm more familiar with how to get XYZ from it....but....other than the reverb/delay, I think it's hard to say I "need" it with 32c. When the Slate Red comp is better on bass than the Harrison, it's by this TINY amount....like an amount I'm not sure even MATTERS....
$99 software. And they're busy making interesting digital plugs like the Drum, Bass, Vocal "Character" plug ins....and the Tom Gate....
Anyway--if Harrison say listened a nice Plate and a nice IR set from someone to include....the delay is really a UI thing, as it sounds fine....they'd offer the complete audio recording/mixing package for $99. Why on earth would someone getting into this buy into something they need multiple plug in subs to get to sound good? I think Luna and 32c are shots over the bow.....to finally maybe getting DAW companies to compete on, fucking SOUND QUALITY.....rather than "right click here to make vocal harmony" BS.
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Post by gouge on May 31, 2021 20:22:52 GMT -6
We have beer subscriptions in australia.
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Post by bgrotto on May 31, 2021 20:28:33 GMT -6
We have em in the States, too. Buncha breweries, distributors, etc do em as a 'beer(s) of the month' kind of thing.
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Post by sirthought on Jun 1, 2021 0:59:45 GMT -6
Plugins really aren't that old, but for someone trying to make it their business they face a fairly mature marketplace. Getting the best R&D and talent to make something truly different is a challenge. Some of these smaller devs people mention here have been in it long enough that they likely just don't break away and code for something else. But also, in the 90s and early 00s we weren't seeing so many updates to operating systems. Apple wasn't doing the yearly change until about 2003? And Microsoft has definitely had some changes out there impacting those who have to keep everything humming for their customers. I don't think maintenance upgrades are the end of the world...if there are actual upgrades (unlike a lot of the Waves stuff).
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Post by OtisGreying on Jun 1, 2021 1:05:45 GMT -6
I don't think its even worth it for beginners, if you're a beginner you who doesn't know how to use anything then an entire library of plug-ins is more fun graphics to play distracting you rather than actually helping you learn.
So for that one guy who knows what hes doing and its cost effective for 1 year or something, sure. Everyone else I think a subscription is not the way to go. I have 60 plugins maybe and use about 10 on a regular basis and my workflow is way better than if I'm demoing new stuff and constantly trying new plug-in compressors and EQ's. Distractions no thank you.
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Post by centralpark on Jun 1, 2021 11:34:59 GMT -6
I don't think its even worth it for beginners, if you're a beginner you who doesn't know how to use anything then an entire library of plug-ins is more fun graphics to play distracting you rather than actually helping you learn. So for that one guy who knows what hes doing and its cost effective for 1 year or something, sure. Everyone else I think a subscription is not the way to go. I have 60 plugins maybe and use about 10 on a regular basis and my workflow is way better than if I'm demoing new stuff and constantly trying new plug-in compressors and EQ's. Distractions no thank you. Agree it's probably worse for beginners. If one can't get the right sound, instead of digging deeper into the current tool - which quite possibly could do the job, one just quickly tries something else. The cost of distraction can't be quantified but in terms of actually learning one's tools, that cost is very high. I've wasted so much money and time on plugins. And the thing is, none of them are bad. Most of them are very good to great. Whenever I've going through the ones I haven't been using I often think, "this is fantastic!" and find it tough to get rid of any of them. There's a bunch of top engineers (Serban and John Hanes being two famous ones) who use Metric Halo's Channel Strip which has to be 15+ years old and is probably one of the least sexy plugins there is. There's an obvious lesson there.
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Post by popmann on Jun 1, 2021 13:37:18 GMT -6
Those Waves plugs oft being discussed I had in 1998 or something in Nuendo. The "analog modeled" console stuff came a few years later. As tech goes, 15-22 years is a long time. Anyway--right now, what I see being bought and used by beginners are the AI lite stuff...the stuff that is' a PIA in every DAW that analyzes everything else via big sidechain networks...all it will take is for say Izotope to come out with a DAW that integrates all the things that their plug ins DO...without having to buy PLUG INS...and they will OWN the beginner market. Combine that with "one knob" type tech...integrated, where the "brighter" will start as a gentle high shelf, and quickly add (maybe parallel) exciter content. Think about that Waves Schepps monstrosity of a UI just being four knobs on a channel..."air...bite...thick...sub"....suddenly that DAW sounds better...in the hands of amateurs. make it all multitouch native--no channel faders...or certainly not contiguous banks of them...these are people who've never USED a mixer. #thinkTank4Hire
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Post by bgrotto on Jun 3, 2021 7:42:15 GMT -6
Waves just announced a subscription plan 🤣
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Post by sirthought on Jun 5, 2021 6:05:33 GMT -6
Waves just announced a subscription plan 🤣 And if you are just looking at quantity of tool options, they are more expensive than Plugin-Alliance. Kush, Slate are more expensive also.
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Post by forgotteng on Jun 5, 2021 7:36:12 GMT -6
Nothing new to contribute here but I am not a fan of the sub model. I already have too many options so the last thing I need is every single plugin for ??$ a month. I get it they need money for updates and R&D but I just can't keep up with it. I am already getting buried with Xfinity, Netflixs, Amazon Prime, Disney+ subscriptions And then their is the stinking Adobe sub. It's bleeding me dry.
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Post by superwack on Jun 5, 2021 9:14:48 GMT -6
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Post by bgrotto on Jun 5, 2021 10:01:34 GMT -6
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Post by superwack on Jun 5, 2021 10:07:23 GMT -6
No worries, the joke is on THEM! 🤣😄😂
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 5, 2021 11:09:10 GMT -6
I wonder if I could survive on just an eq plugin and 2-3 compressors. Play it like console days. Use whats on the board i.e. one kind of eq.
I could probably survive. But theres something about ITB and options that makes me keep scrolling through EQ after EQ to see what works. blech.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 5, 2021 17:16:38 GMT -6
Great thread guys. I decided to make it simple for myself and...
Mainly use Bremmers Multitrackstudio ($69/Basic/done). Very olde skool Analog-ish flow. With Bandlab Editor/Audacity/Twisted Wave, as further Editing support. Bremmers MTS has nice stock Plugs too.
Otherwise I get caught up in minutiae too much. Chris P.S. Excellent/suggested DAW for beginners.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 9:59:42 GMT -6
I find it telling that the guys who still mostly make badass utility plugs and aren’t riding on past laurels do not offer subscriptions. Fab Filter, Tokyo Dawn, Sound Radix, Voxengo, Eventide, Sonnox, even PSP and Goodhertz. They come out with a plug every year or two and it’s always super useful despite seeming either too complex or too simple until you learn it. They have no subscriptions, fake inflated prices to discourage you from buying outright, or Gobbler layaway.
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