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Post by samuelpepys on May 30, 2021 11:38:11 GMT -6
Hi! I've been thinking about buying myself a pair of KM54's, but I'm always stopping myself from pulling the trigger considering the darned, pesky AC701K tube. Those tubes are now a bit of a gamble to buy, and no one tests them, because they'll sell no matter how crappy they are just because of the name, so sellers have no reason to. I'm just thinking that tubes will always crap out eventually, and when one tube that might not even be usable costs as much as the entire microphone itself, then maybe the entire microphone is somewhat of a lost cause? Unless there is another tube you can replace the AC701K with that will sound close enough. I bought a pair of Gefell m582's, because I know I will have high quality Telefunken tubes available for as long as I live, and felt that was a much better option than gambling on a mic that might easily cost you twice of what you paid for it just within a year or so if you are unlucky (tube giving out and you having to buy two tubes because one wasn't good enough).
What do you think? Is there a point in those kind of microphones in say 20 years time, when the stock has dried up, and the only tubes left in existence are the ones currently in the microphones?
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Post by drbill on May 30, 2021 11:43:07 GMT -6
From my understanding, there are a bunch of AC701k's in stock in various places - but the owners are holding back - pushing up the price. I've got a pair of of KM53's. Wonderful mics. Personally, I think the magic of these mics- the 54's, 53's, M49's, etc. is in the magic of the 701k's more than the mic itself. There's just something about the AC701k's.
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Post by samuelpepys on May 30, 2021 11:54:06 GMT -6
From my understanding, there are a bunch of AC701k's in stock in various places - but the owners are holding back - pushing up the price. I've got a pair of of KM53's. Wonderful mics. Personally, I think the magic of these mics- the 54's, 53's, M49's, etc. is in the magic of the 701k's more than the mic itself. There's just something about the AC701k's. Yes, I believe there are two investors, holding at least one thousand of them if combined. But I also believe that those are all that is left basically (herhaps a few hundred in total other than their stock), and while it may take a couple decades or more for them to sell off a large part of it, it will happen eventually. And if they manage to sell of their stock so slowly that most of us will be old men when these tubes run out, is it still worth paying perhaps several thousand dollars for a tube that you may have to replace immediately because it was subpar? I mean, chances are that many of the best tubes have been singled out already from when the tubes were cheap and may have already been used in microphones, and that a large part of what is left are the tubes that no one wanted to use when they were readily available. Or am I too pessimistic?
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Post by rowmat on May 30, 2021 12:03:57 GMT -6
I have a KM54 which is in good condition both the AC701k and the nickel diaphragm. I would be interested to know how often their AC701K’s fail compared to their nickel diaphragms? There seems to be quite a few sold that have had their nickel capsules replaced with KM84 type capsules so you need to be careful when buying as in the past I have seen some sellers failing to mention the capsule change. Great mic but our KM84’s got more use as the KM54 was all most too hyper detailed for some things. Killer mandolin mic and for acoustic guitars if you want a super polished sound right off the bat.
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Post by drbill on May 30, 2021 12:52:51 GMT -6
Sometimes you got to roll the dice if you want the rewards. You might lose, but you lost trying. At least that's my perspective. There's magic in the 701's. Moreso than most other tubes IMO. My 53's have 83 capsules due to the capsules failing in the past before I got them. They are WAY different than 83's. It's the tube. As rowmat said - hyper detailed. Nothing else like em.
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Post by timcampbell on May 30, 2021 13:10:23 GMT -6
Well I have 3 KM56's and I don't worry about their tubes. The nickel capsule is much more fragile. I worry more about my U47 and MM2 with their VF14's. Even good 6072 tubes are getting expensive and hard to find good examples of. If you want to own these kinds of mics you need to buy spare tubes.
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Post by Ward on Jun 1, 2021 8:06:22 GMT -6
Well I have 3 KM56's and I don't worry about their tubes. The nickel capsule is much more fragile. I worry more about my U47 and MM2 with their VF14's. Even good 6072 tubes are getting expensive and hard to find good examples of. If you want to own these kinds of mics you need to buy spare tubes. Tim, and/or Christian bowie, What's a good reliable tube tester for AC701K tubes?
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Post by EmRR on Jun 1, 2021 8:18:06 GMT -6
Well I have 3 KM56's and I don't worry about their tubes. The nickel capsule is much more fragile. I worry more about my U47 and MM2 with their VF14's. Even good 6072 tubes are getting expensive and hard to find good examples of. If you want to own these kinds of mics you need to buy spare tubes. Tim, and/or Christian bowie , What's a good reliable tube tester for AC701K tubes? I would assume an in-mic test is the only reliable method. Or a purpose built test jig.
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Post by bradd on Jun 1, 2021 8:31:02 GMT -6
I've always wondered how the nickel capsule Gefells (M295?) compare.
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Post by svart on Jun 1, 2021 8:40:34 GMT -6
Supposedly there are a few cheap tubes that work well but might have some caveats. I think all of these would be under-voltaged on the heaters and a couple might need some adjustments of supporting circuitry but seems that all of these have been reported as working well in place of the AC701.
EC71/5718 6S6B-V 6947 5840
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Post by bowie on Jun 1, 2021 9:10:26 GMT -6
Well I have 3 KM56's and I don't worry about their tubes. The nickel capsule is much more fragile. I worry more about my U47 and MM2 with their VF14's. Even good 6072 tubes are getting expensive and hard to find good examples of. If you want to own these kinds of mics you need to buy spare tubes. Tim, and/or Christian bowie , What's a good reliable tube tester for AC701K tubes? Testers are good for several things, but they won't tell you if a tube is acceptable to use in a mic. For an AC701, you want to do your best to find true NOS/unused, and then run them in a mic (or rig made to simulate a mic circuit) for a few days to see how they behave. I choose not to stock AC701s because of the number of fakes and used being sold as new these days. I install them for customers who already have spares, but I don't actively shop them. Though I love tubes and spend many hours every week listening and comparing, I'm personally not into the mystique the community attaches to certain tube types, nor do I think mics have to have specific tubes to sound amazing (certain exceptions exist). Anyone who has contacted me about tubes like this has heard me preach against fetishizing the originality of old gear. I do feel that modern production tubes are mediocre, but had things gone differently we might be paying hundreds for a different tube. The EF800 was nearly forgotten about for decades. A few mic designers started making brilliant mics with them recently and now they're starting to get hot. For mics where a specific tube influences the value tremendously, yes, get an AC701. But, there are a few SDCs where one must decide if it's worth converting and I think people should be less afraid of that. There's an unfortunate mentality in pro-audio that sounding slightly different than an original = sounding worse. And, regarding nickel diaphragms, yes, they are fragile and that's something to consider with these mics.
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Post by Ward on Jun 1, 2021 11:01:40 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Jun 1, 2021 11:04:14 GMT -6
Tim, and/or Christian bowie , What's a good reliable tube tester for AC701K tubes? Testers are good for several things, but they won't tell you if a tube is acceptable to use in a mic. For an AC701, you want to do your best to find true NOS/unused, and then run them in a mic (or rig made to simulate a mic circuit) for a few days to see how they behave. I choose not to stock AC701s because of the number of fakes and used being sold as new these days. I install them for customers who already have spares, but I don't actively shop them. Though I love tubes and spend many hours every week listening and comparing, I'm personally not into the mystique the community attaches to certain tube types, nor do I think mics have to have specific tubes to sound amazing (certain exceptions exist). Anyone who has contacted me about tubes like this has heard me preach against fetishizing the originality of old gear. I do feel that modern production tubes are mediocre, but had things gone differently we might be paying hundreds for a different tube. The EF800 was nearly forgotten about for decades. A few mic designers started making brilliant mics with them recently and now they're starting to get hot. For mics where a specific tube influences the value tremendously, yes, get an AC701. But, there are a few SDCs where one must decide if it's worth converting and I think people should be less afraid of that. There's an unfortunate mentality in pro-audio that sounding slightly different than an original = sounding worse. And, regarding nickel diaphragms, yes, they are fragile and that's something to consider with these mics. Preach!
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Post by Omicron9 on Jun 1, 2021 11:33:04 GMT -6
I've always wondered how the nickel capsule Gefells (M295?) compare. I've never compared the M-295 with a KM-54, though I have heard/used tracks tracked with a 54. I had a pair of M-295 for many years. I loved them. They sound like the KM-54 descriptions in this thread. So detailed that you can practically hear what the performer was thinking and their shirt color, but never harsh or brittle. Just tons of microscopic details for days and days. Great, great mics for sure. -09
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 1, 2021 17:33:21 GMT -6
I've always wondered how the nickel capsule Gefells (M295?) compare. I've never compared the M-295 with a KM-54, though I have heard/used tracks tracked with a 54. I had a pair of M-295 for many years. I loved them. They sound like the KM-54 descriptions in this thread. So detailed that you can practically hear what the performer was thinking and their shirt color, but never harsh or brittle. Just tons of microscopic details for days and days. Great, great mics for sure. -09 Then I'm glad I've never been recorded by these as what I am thinking is usually grounds for defenestration.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 1, 2021 18:54:34 GMT -6
I've always wondered how the nickel capsule Gefells (M295?) compare. I've never compared the M-295 with a KM-54, though I have heard/used tracks tracked with a 54. I had a pair of M-295 for many years. I loved them. They sound like the KM-54 descriptions in this thread. So detailed that you can practically hear what the performer was thinking and their shirt color, but never harsh or brittle. Just tons of microscopic details for days and days. Great, great mics for sure. -09 I really liked the 295’s I tried, we had them on a grand piano in an Americana/rock setting, a solid smooth sense of brightness and presence, nothing hard or harsh about it.
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Post by damoongo on Jun 2, 2021 17:48:55 GMT -6
km56c and Schoeps m221b pair here. Don't hesitate. They are incredible. AC701's can be found, but seldom need to be replaced. Just keep an eye on heater voltage and it's recommended to run them at 4.0VDC rather than 4.3VDC for longevity without sonic compromise.
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