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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 17, 2021 11:46:45 GMT -6
I'm filling my first actual rack here and I'm wondering about your theories on doing this. I've been planning and reading for a few weeks, but now that the actual rack is here I'm second guessing myself. A couple questions.
1) Is there any merit to leaving the patchbay out of the rack and putting it on top? The pro is that I can label the top of the patchbay. Also, that it's easier to re-patch the back. The con is of course that it's messy.
2) I know how I would do this in terms of access and workflow for the most part, but I'm concerned about heat. I don't have enough space to leave full 1U love or below units but I can leave some gaps. If you tell me that something is in danger the way I have it, I can just not rack some things.
Top to bottom. 12u space. 10u of stuff. 500ADAT sitting on top because it's 4u and because I want it to be semi-portable. I'm thinking if I do rack the Patchbay I'll put it lower because the 4-710 comes out really far and the patchbay would be impossible to reach if it's above it.
Also, any tips on racking stuff with the minimal re-patching necessary? Or am I making things harder by trying to make them easier... easier to just repatch? Am I overthinking it not putting the patchbay higher up?
500ADAT (on top of the box)
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-----[1/3u gap]-----
| UA 4-710 (2u - runs pretty hot at times, has tubes)
-----[1/3u gap]-----
| ART VLA PRO (2u - here because it runs fairly cool)
| Patchbay (1u, norm switches on the front)
-----[1/3u gap]-----
| Audioscape OptoComp (3u - just got it, assuming it's hot)
-----[1/3u gap]-----
| Trident S20 (1u - runs cool)
| Trident S20 (1u - runs cool)
| TC Electronic M300 (1u - runs cool, don't track with it so I could choose to not rack it at all and stash it someplace else, but it's helpful for using the ping pong to test sounds since I don't have an assistant)
| Don't have a power conditioner yet but it would go here if I get one.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 17, 2021 12:02:32 GMT -6
The first part of this is the rack it’s self. More and more I have become a fan of open frame racks with the addition of removable sides easy access and more options for controlling cave routing just makes life simpler. If you must use a bay with 1/4 in front and back a vent panel above and below save your hands, as do well labeled cables and a map of the patchbay from both front and back.
Where and how much vent space are entirely gear dependent as well as what gear might not play well next to each other.
One nice trick is to use hardwood rails simply because you can then use 1/2 space spacers all over because you can easily drill wholes where you need them.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 17, 2021 12:09:15 GMT -6
Interesting tip on the hardwood rails. Too late now though!
So I've already got the rack which is just a wooden box open on front and back. No removable sides or anything. I kind of went for aesthetic over efficiency I guess. Might not have thought that through too well but it sure looks great!
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Post by jmoose on May 17, 2021 12:47:33 GMT -6
I'm filling my first actual rack here and I'm wondering about your theories on doing this. I've been planning and reading for a few weeks, but now that the actual rack is here I'm second guessing myself. A couple questions. 1) Is there any merit to leaving the patchbay out of the rack and putting it on top? The pro is that I can label the top of the patchbay. Also, that it's easier to re-patch the back. The con is of course that it's messy. The whole point of having a patchbay is so that you don't have to go fukking around with cables behind a rack in the middle of a session... If you feel the need to access the back of the patchbay on even a semi-regular basis its time to stop and rethink things. And I like 'em up higher. Putting them at ground level makes no sense, you have to be able to see what your patching and bending over gets old. Also over time I've noticed the dust floor in a room is about 6" off the ground... Anything down low is a magnet for dirt. Gear that needs to be portable and move on a regular basis goes into a portable rack. Pulling stuff on a regular basis gets old. I did that for a few years, moving between my home base mix shop and tracking room that I was a partner in. Got messy and tore things up. These days what goes in the studio racks, for the most part stays in the studio racks and with very rare exceptions won't come out. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 17, 2021 12:53:18 GMT -6
Good point. Plus putting patch bay on the top rack space allows me to put OptoComp underneath it for extra room to breathe (since patchbay is so shallow).
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 17, 2021 13:32:15 GMT -6
Patchbay needs to be racked and not sitting on top because it will be sliding all over the place when trying to plug and unplug patch cables.
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Post by Blackdawg on May 17, 2021 14:12:36 GMT -6
Plus you can add cable strain relief generally on the back rails of the rack(if it has it) for the patch bay which is always nice.
I used to worry a lot about the heat thing too. But honestly..not usually a problem so don't sweat to much about that.
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Post by drbill on May 17, 2021 14:23:34 GMT -6
This subject could be a book. and I've not got enough time. suffice it to say that my ideas on racking, wiring and patch bays have evolved over the decades to the place where I've finally got it nailed. I'll never have to "start over" again. Just "add to".  |
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Post by indiehouse on May 17, 2021 14:30:05 GMT -6
Yeah, speaking as someone who racked his patchbays low once, it was kind of a pain. Getting down on the ground, especially when the light is low for vibey tracking sessions. Can't see. The downside of top side patchbays is that the wires get messy, and will get in the way of the gear below.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 17, 2021 14:44:08 GMT -6
Yeah, speaking as someone who racked his patchbays low once, it was kind of a pain. Getting down on the ground, especially when the light is low for vibey tracking sessions. Can't see. The downside of top side patchbays is that the wires get messy, and will get in the way of the gear below. Worse yet somebody accidentally kicks a connector mid session and it shorts! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 17, 2021 15:18:43 GMT -6
All right, below is a pic of what I did. Missing from the 500 box is the Serpent 4001b that arrives today. Lots of what here was stuff I hadn't considered when I was doing my upgrades until I got suggestions here. Thanks for the help! First, JMoose already had me convinced on the patchbay before all your replies. And you're all right for all kinds of different reasons. Patchbay went on top where it belongs. Second, my logic on cooling. Hope I'm right but if I'm not I can always move it around. I put the OptoComp underneath the Patchbay so the heat would have extra room to dissipate up. The 4-710 goes underneath that for two reasons. Even though it runs warm, it won't be on when I'm using the OptoComp for mixing. Secondly, the OptoComp is very well ventilated top and bottom so my hope is that when it's off, the 4-710's heat can go right up through it. Also, the 4-710 is warm, not hot. Should be ok. PRO VLA below that which is my last choice compressor so will only get really used in bigger sessions. It will also be used during mixing but, again, the 4-710 won't. And then everything under that runs cool.  |
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Post by jmoose on May 17, 2021 22:28:20 GMT -6
Ergonomics places high over everything else for me.
Heat has to be examined on a case by case basis. Concern yes, but down the list.
I'd have put the LA2A at the bottom. It's huge and only has 2 knobs, how much tweaking are you going to do?!
Those trident preamps would go higher...
General thought is to keep EQ and preamps near the sweet spot so you aren't taking your ears out of the speakers all the time. With preamps you need to be able to hear and also see converters.
One shop I used to work out of... preamps were a mile away from converters & DAW screen. At least 10 12 feet... always had my head buried, look at meters... clipping... reach over and turn the wrong knob again... everything 4 times harder then it should be.
Got real old real fast.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 17, 2021 22:32:13 GMT -6
Ergonomics places high over everything else for me. Heat has to be examined on a case by case basis. Concern yes, but down the list. I'd have put the LA2A at the bottom. It's huge and only has 2 knobs, how much tweaking are you going to do?! Those trident preamps would go higher... General thought is to keep EQ and preamps near the sweet spot so you aren't taking your ears out of the speakers all the time. With preamps you need to be able to hear and also see converters. One shop I used to work out of... preamps were a mile away from converters & DAW screen. At least 10 12 feet... always had my head buried, look at meters... clipping... reach over and turn the wrong knob again... everything 4 times harder then it should be. Got real old real fast. It's a first draft. But my thinking is that I'm going to be tweaking the LA2A more often than the pres because I'm going to be using it for mixing as well. Keep in mind I don't have a dedicated tracking room so I'm dialing in most preamps with headphones and then checking playback through monitors. You also can't see from this picture but I can literally reach out and touch the 500 rack with my right hand without moving from the sweet spot, or at least barely. |
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Post by hadaja on May 17, 2021 23:17:58 GMT -6
Trident s20’s nice. I had a pair of the bigger brothers Trident mta a range strips and man they were just heaven. Even the series 80b channel strip did not compare.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 17, 2021 23:21:01 GMT -6
Trident s20’s nice. I had a pair of the bigger brothers Trident mta a range strips and man they were just heaven. Even the series 80b channel strip did not compare. I'm enjoying them. They are really quite warm, almost dark. But the HPF is remarkably effective at brightening them up. I've only had them for a month or so but they're proving to be quite versatile. They drive my ribbons well which is why I picked them up. |
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Post by stormymondays on May 18, 2021 7:24:22 GMT -6
I know lunchboxes all have cascade functions but I much rather have the stereo pairs side by side. Easier for recalls and tweaks, I think.
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Post by svart on May 18, 2021 7:39:17 GMT -6
Patchbay in the rack, on the top. Items that you will patch more often need to go higher in the rack for ease of use. Place things that you use less progressively lower in the rack and save your back!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 18, 2021 13:40:23 GMT -6
I know lunchboxes all have cascade functions but I much rather have the stereo pairs side by side. Easier for recalls and tweaks, I think. Yeah, that was the first thing I thought this morning. Worked on a mix last night and I think it might be easier to pair up my units. When the 500ADAT is in ADAT mode you can't patch the channels around because the analog in isn't recognized. So I initially set up the 500 box with the thought that I would focus on setting it up for tracking first and then patch for mixing, turns out tracking is actually easier to route than mixing so I'm probably going to go to stereo pairs so I can more easily take advantage of the chain feature on the box. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 18, 2021 13:42:52 GMT -6
Patchbay in the rack, on the top. Items that you will patch more often need to go higher in the rack for ease of use. Place things that you use less progressively lower in the rack and save your back! Yep, that's pretty much what I went with. I've already had to change a few routings in the back of the patch bay which was not easy but I think it'll reach a stasis pretty soon. I also like that the OptoComp is so large that the patch cables don't interfere with seeing the metering or using the controls. |
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Post by mhbunch on May 18, 2021 14:36:12 GMT -6
All right, below is a pic of what I did. Missing from the 500 box is the Serpent 4001b that arrives today. Lots of what here was stuff I hadn't considered when I was doing my upgrades until I got suggestions here. Thanks for the help! First, JMoose already had me convinced on the patchbay before all your replies. And you're all right for all kinds of different reasons. Patchbay went on top where it belongs. Second, my logic on cooling. Hope I'm right but if I'm not I can always move it around. I put the OptoComp underneath the Patchbay so the heat would have extra room to dissipate up. The 4-710 goes underneath that for two reasons. Even though it runs warm, it won't be on when I'm using the OptoComp for mixing. Secondly, the OptoComp is very well ventilated top and bottom so my hope is that when it's off, the 4-710's heat can go right up through it. Also, the 4-710 is warm, not hot. Should be ok. PRO VLA below that which is my last choice compressor so will only get really used in bigger sessions. It will also be used during mixing but, again, the 4-710 won't. And then everything under that runs cool. View AttachmentYou didn't follow the golden rule!!! (Always buy 2x the amount of rack space that you think you need!) |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 18, 2021 14:57:20 GMT -6
All right, below is a pic of what I did. Missing from the 500 box is the Serpent 4001b that arrives today. Lots of what here was stuff I hadn't considered when I was doing my upgrades until I got suggestions here. Thanks for the help! First, JMoose already had me convinced on the patchbay before all your replies. And you're all right for all kinds of different reasons. Patchbay went on top where it belongs. Second, my logic on cooling. Hope I'm right but if I'm not I can always move it around. I put the OptoComp underneath the Patchbay so the heat would have extra room to dissipate up. The 4-710 goes underneath that for two reasons. Even though it runs warm, it won't be on when I'm using the OptoComp for mixing. Secondly, the OptoComp is very well ventilated top and bottom so my hope is that when it's off, the 4-710's heat can go right up through it. Also, the 4-710 is warm, not hot. Should be ok. PRO VLA below that which is my last choice compressor so will only get really used in bigger sessions. It will also be used during mixing but, again, the 4-710 won't. And then everything under that runs cool. View AttachmentYou didn't follow the golden rule!!! (Always buy 2x the amount of rack space that you think you need!) Yes. That became quickly apparent. I didn’t want any more boundary interference on the wide speaker than I already had. Looks like I’ll just need to cap the hardware where it is. Just gotta get that SB then I’m done. And a FET compressor. And that’s it! Ok, maybe a stereo pair. And then maybe, just maybe etc etc etc |
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Post by johneppstein on May 19, 2021 13:11:14 GMT -6
The first part of this is the rack it’s self. More and more I have become a fan of open frame racks with the addition of removable sides easy access and more options for controlling cave routing just makes life simpler. If you must use a bay with 1/4 in front and back a vent panel above and below save your hands, as do well labeled cables and a map of the patchbay from both front and back. Where and how much vent space are entirely gear dependent as well as what gear might not play well next to each other. One nice trick is to use hardwood rails simply because you can then use 1/2 space spacers all over because you can easily drill wholes where you need them. Hardwood also eliminates the possibility of ground loops through the rack. |
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Post by svart on May 19, 2021 13:32:25 GMT -6
The first part of this is the rack it’s self. More and more I have become a fan of open frame racks with the addition of removable sides easy access and more options for controlling cave routing just makes life simpler. If you must use a bay with 1/4 in front and back a vent panel above and below save your hands, as do well labeled cables and a map of the patchbay from both front and back. Where and how much vent space are entirely gear dependent as well as what gear might not play well next to each other. One nice trick is to use hardwood rails simply because you can then use 1/2 space spacers all over because you can easily drill wholes where you need them. Hardwood also eliminates the possibility of ground loops through the rack. Could make some a lot worse if the anodized panels touch and make poor contact. |
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Post by johneppstein on May 19, 2021 23:27:20 GMT -6
Hardwood also eliminates the possibility of ground loops through the rack. Could make some a lot worse if the anodized panels touch and make poor contact. Well, since there are no pre-drilled holes to contend with it shouldn't be a problem - if you're careful. |
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