|
Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 21, 2021 8:22:03 GMT -6
I have the Stam SA67 and the Soyuz 0-19 (now called the 0-17 FET). Both are first class mics that can be used in professional situations without giving you the feeling of compromise. I had a 1981 U87 and used it every day for 10 years, but sold it a long time ago. The Stam gives me the vintage tube sound I love, and the Soyuz is incredibly transparent without ever being strident.
I would definitely place the Soyuz squarely in the serious workhorse category the U87 is king of. It's the best mic I've ever heard on large body acoustics, and in a shootout I did a few years back between a well maintained vintage U67, vintage U47, Neumann M49, Telefunken C-12, my Blackspade UM-17 R and the Soyuz 0-19, it placed third. That shootout was done at a major league studio. It killed the C-12, trounced the M49 and beat the Blackspade. The U-47 placed second, and for my voice, the U67 was tops. In that situation a Soyuz 0-17 (tube) would have made for a fairer comparison, but I used what I had.
When asked if the U87 is a good mic, there is no doubt it's one of the best mics ever made. You may prefer a vintage one or an AI, depending on your tastes and needs. I once had a survey that showed the U87 was in 85% of the world's working studios, that should tell you something.
If buying new, I'd look at the U87AI and the Soyuz 0-17 FET and make a choice, they're both incredibly versatile and sound pretty great on almost everything.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Apr 21, 2021 16:27:37 GMT -6
I have sung through a few 47s and 2 251s none work as well on me as my old U87
I just cut this last night to put up on fbook...
and this is just the U87 capturing my voice and guitar a few years back
cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 22, 2021 3:02:46 GMT -6
I have sung through a few 47s and 2 251s none work as well on me as my old U87 I just cut this last night to put up on fbook... and this is just the U87 capturing my voice and guitar a few years back cheers Wiz Ok, well I clearly need a u87 and an SA2A. Beautiful.
|
|
|
Post by Chad on Apr 22, 2021 8:47:16 GMT -6
Like many here, I also love U87's. About 3 years ago, I owned nearly a dozen U87's at one time. One by one, I tested them with my own voice & acoustic guitar (this is a personal home/project studio), and narrowed them down to 3 I loved: A minty 1977, a minty 1985, and a brand new U87ai I bought from Sweetwater in 2017. Cool thing about the 2017 U87ai – I also have a Max Kircher MK67 for it (with a healthy supply of Telefunken EF86's), plus a TLM 67 insert I grabbed from Reverb or eBay. So... On the k87/k67 style Neumann... I'm "set". ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 22, 2021 10:04:33 GMT -6
wiz , , , don't ever ever ever sell that microphone. It loves you like your mom.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Apr 22, 2021 10:15:39 GMT -6
U87 is a very versatile mic on most days for me. Personally, I like the innertube audio retro fit kit in it a lot. It is really a “wow” when you add that onto the package and remove the solid state guts. Can also change it back easily when you want that. For a workhorse solid state condenser, I’m a fan of the Gefell UMT-70s, in comparison to the U87. I personally find I can “get away” with that mic every time I use it on anything. Would it be fair to say... U47 - GACK (the mask) U67 - Woof (the wooly low mid) U87 - Honk (that cutting midrange that works in the mix) Anyone agree ? ? Except for my 47 being a Heiserman (which I've put up against enough Neumann U47s to say is as close as twins), I have all three and use all three on a regular basis. That's the distinguishing character flaw, although not even a flaw and each of the Gack Woof and Honk flaws are very very very slight anyhow. As for the UMT70s? Everyone who has a 70 and an 87 says the same thing!! Lord knows, I love me e very Neumann-Gefell microphone I have and have used. One of these days, Adam! Ward - can't believe you don't have any Gefell's... I was lucky in my discovery. I bought 9 Gefells from a scoring engineer buddy, and sold 2 to help fun the 7 I kept. Love all of em!! You should def try them out in your own place. My fav and most useful being the UM70. Still...not parting with the vintage 87 and it's InnerTube tube insert - which as Adam mentioned is fantastic.
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 22, 2021 13:05:57 GMT -6
Like many here, I also love U87's. About 3 years ago, I owned nearly a dozen U87's at one time. One by one, I tested them with my own voice & acoustic guitar (this is a personal home/project studio), and narrowed them down to 3 I loved: A minty 1977, a minty 1985, and a brand new U87ai I bought from Sweetwater in 2017. Cool thing about the 2017 U87ai – I also have a Max Kircher MK67 for it (with a healthy supply of Telefunken EF86's), plus a TLM 67 insert I grabbed from Reverb or eBay. So... On the k87/k67 style Neumann... I'm "set". ;-) Wait, wait, wait... stop the presses. Is nobody going to ask why you had a dozen U87's for a personal project studio? We're all just going to read this and move on like it's a totally normal statement? There's got to be a story here. How did this come about, and what did you do with the other 9?
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Apr 22, 2021 13:29:41 GMT -6
Like many here, I also love U87's. About 3 years ago, I owned nearly a dozen U87's at one time. One by one, I tested them with my own voice & acoustic guitar (this is a personal home/project studio), and narrowed them down to 3 I loved: A minty 1977, a minty 1985, and a brand new U87ai I bought from Sweetwater in 2017. Cool thing about the 2017 U87ai – I also have a Max Kircher MK67 for it (with a healthy supply of Telefunken EF86's), plus a TLM 67 insert I grabbed from Reverb or eBay. So... On the k87/k67 style Neumann... I'm "set". ;-) Wait, wait, wait... stop the presses. Is nobody going to ask why you had a dozen U87's for a personal project studio? We're all just going to read this and move on like it's a totally normal statement? There's got to be a story here. How did this come about, and what did you do with the other 9? If given the opportunity/funds I would have a ridiculous number of microphones. I didn't even blink except to think "good for him."
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Apr 22, 2021 16:01:11 GMT -6
Would it be fair to say... U47 - GACK (the mask) U67 - Woof (the wooly low mid) U87 - Honk (that cutting midrange that works in the mix) Anyone agree ? ? Except for my 47 being a Heiserman (which I've put up against enough Neumann U47s to say is as close as twins), I have all three and use all three on a regular basis. That's the distinguishing character flaw, although not even a flaw and each of the Gack Woof and Honk flaws are very very very slight anyhow. As for the UMT70s? Everyone who has a 70 and an 87 says the same thing!! Lord knows, I love me e very Neumann-Gefell microphone I have and have used. One of these days, Adam! Ward - can't believe you don't have any Gefell's... I was lucky in my discovery. I bought 9 Gefells from a scoring engineer buddy, and sold 2 to help fun the 7 I kept. Love all of em!! You should def try them out in your own place. My fav and most useful being the UM70. Still...not parting with the vintage 87 and it's InnerTube tube insert - which as Adam mentioned is fantastic. I always thought the inner tube thing was only for the AI variant......so ...I could get one for my battery compartment 87? cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Apr 22, 2021 16:02:03 GMT -6
wiz , , , don't ever ever ever sell that microphone. It loves you like your mom. Thanks man..... I have never sung through an AI version....would love to see how it sound cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 22, 2021 16:12:22 GMT -6
Ward - can't believe you don't have any Gefell's... I was lucky in my discovery. I bought 9 Gefells from a scoring engineer buddy, and sold 2 to help fun the 7 I kept. Love all of em!! You should def try them out in your own place. My fav and most useful being the UM70. Still...not parting with the vintage 87 and it's InnerTube tube insert - which as Adam mentioned is fantastic. I have some! A matched pair of M930s that will live on my forthcoming restored 1965 FC9 Yamaha. A UM57 which is mind-blowing A M582 with the SDC nickel diaphragm.
|
|
|
Post by Chad on Apr 22, 2021 17:21:33 GMT -6
Like many here, I also love U87's. About 3 years ago, I owned nearly a dozen U87's at one time. One by one, I tested them with my own voice & acoustic guitar (this is a personal home/project studio), and narrowed them down to 3 I loved: A minty 1977, a minty 1985, and a brand new U87ai I bought from Sweetwater in 2017. Cool thing about the 2017 U87ai – I also have a Max Kircher MK67 for it (with a healthy supply of Telefunken EF86's), plus a TLM 67 insert I grabbed from Reverb or eBay. So... On the k87/k67 style Neumann... I'm "set". ;-) Wait, wait, wait... stop the presses. Is nobody going to ask why you had a dozen U87's for a personal project studio? We're all just going to read this and move on like it's a totally normal statement? There's got to be a story here. How did this come about, and what did you do with the other 9? Well, thank you for asking! Yeah, I know... It was nutso, extreme, you name it... But, here's how it started... I found out in the late 90's/early 2000's that an 87 fits my voice very nicely (probably *most* people who have used a good one feel that way) when I rented one for an album of mine. I didn't buy one at that time. Then... A few years later, I took a break from music production (partially, because I had no understanding of how to make things sound good 'in the box' once I left the ADAT and hardware mixer setup I had before). By 2017, I decided to really get serious again about building my "dream studio" to support my love of writing and singing. I was tired of my cheapo mics I owned, and I decided to splurge and get a 2017 U87ai. The reason I wanted a brand new one was simple: I wanted an untouched 87 that would become the 'control' for me in any future mic shootouts I might perform.
Well, I grew a bit obsessive (to be honest) reading Klaus Heyne's takes on vintage 87s vs Ai's, and as I listened to some shootouts, etc, I finally said to myself, "Forget it. I'm tired of making assumptions by reading about the so-called differences in the various years. I want to learn this by doing my own 'hands-on' shootouts." 87 prices were no where near the COVID prices they now have soared to, so I was lucky and found deals on them from all over the globe. I even ended up at one time with a "museum quality" pair from 1970 which had never been used (or so it seemed). Looked as though they had been socked away in a safe for nearly 50 years! Long story short... After all of that, I now have very real hands-on experiences to go by with Neumann U87's ranging from the early 1970's all the way up to the 2000's and as recent as 2017. I even can tell you from doing some "head assembly swaps"... 98% of the 'tone' of a particular 87 is in the capsule. For instance, I took my 1977 head and put it on the body of my 1985, and their tonalities were criss-crossed. So, in my limited experience, the circuit doesn't do nearly as much as the particular capsule that sits on top of it. 18 months ago, I *still* had 6 left, and I ended up parting with all but the final 3 which were my "favs". So, that's my story. I know... It was a splurge, and it probably never would have occurred to me to do something that drastic, but for some sites like this one and (clears throat) that *other* site where people would share their experiences, and I just grew tired of wondering "is it all myth, or is there really something to this vintage battery compartment U87 vs modern Ai story that I keep hearing??"
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Apr 22, 2021 17:31:17 GMT -6
Would it be fair to say... U47 - GACK (the mask) U67 - Woof (the wooly low mid) U87 - Honk (that cutting midrange that works in the mix) Anyone agree ? ? Except for my 47 being a Heiserman (which I've put up against enough Neumann U47s to say is as close as twins), I have all three and use all three on a regular basis. That's the distinguishing character flaw, although not even a flaw and each of the Gack Woof and Honk flaws are very very very slight anyhow. As for the UMT70s? Everyone who has a 70 and an 87 says the same thing!! Lord knows, I love me e very Neumann-Gefell microphone I have and have used. One of these days, Adam! Ward - can't believe you don't have any Gefell's... I was lucky in my discovery. I bought 9 Gefells from a scoring engineer buddy, and sold 2 to help fun the 7 I kept. Love all of em!! You should def try them out in your own place. My fav and most useful being the UM70. Still...not parting with the vintage 87 and it's InnerTube tube insert - which as Adam mentioned is fantastic. Dr. bill is who set me on the Gefell path. I love them.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 23, 2021 6:17:57 GMT -6
wiz , , , don't ever ever ever sell that microphone. It loves you like your mom. Thanks man..... I have never sung through an AI version....would love to see how it sound cheers Wiz The differences with the AI sound make themselves most apparent in an arrangement or mix. I don't notice it quite as much during tracking but in the mix.... it's like, oh! There it is. JMHO
|
|
|
Post by delcampo on Apr 23, 2021 7:56:24 GMT -6
I'll add re; the Innertube that it rarely gets swapped out for the stock body since it arrived here. The regular (70's something) 87 I have is however just fine for many duties but, in the quick file comparisons I've done between them, the innertube brings a very significant added depth & size. I just figure it increases the 87 milage a lot and it's worth it in that regard. Of course, how worth it depends on what else ya got.
It's a big sound so like everything it has to be congruous to the track. It also adds some top end though (& bottom). Of which I generally notch out a tad of 6kish for my taste, and move on down the road.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2021 9:04:18 GMT -6
I'll add re; the Innertube that it rarely gets swapped out for the stock body since it arrived here. The regular (70's something) 87 I have is however just fine for many duties but, in the quick file comparisons I've done between them, the innertube brings a very significant added depth & size. I just figure it increases the 87 milage a lot and it's worth it in that regard. Of course, how worth it depends on what else ya got. It's a big sound so like everything it has to be congruous to the track. It also adds some top end though (& bottom). Of which I generally notch out a tad of 6kish for my taste, and move on down the road. A really good point for those who have extensive U87 experience. The U87 takes EQing so well, it cn easily be the best 'telephone voice' microphone out there and also be the biggest sounding, if you know what to cut and/or boost. If you want the U87 to sound much bigger? Center two mid bands at 250 and 350 each and slowly pull them down a little at a time and you'll find the bottom end REALLY opens up, and if the honk starts to sound kacki, notch out a little 2k, 1 octave Q then the air will open up. JMHO. Opinions, experience and ears all vary.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Apr 24, 2021 11:59:36 GMT -6
Wow! Thanks Ward. I'll relay that to a friend, so we can mess around with that, in a month or two. Julian Krause has some cool tips, on EQing a 57/58, to get it very close to a SM7. I'll post it, over this weekend. Chris
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 15:25:05 GMT -6
Wow! Thanks Ward. I'll relay that to a friend, so we can mess around with that, in a month or two. Julian Krause has some cool tips, on EQing a 57/58, to get it very close to a SM7. I'll post it, over this weekend. Chris Shame you can't EQ it to sound like a U67 .. Strangely I've never found a specific use for an 87 (hence never bought one), that's not to say they aren't great microphones but for acoustic instruments I'll reach for an SDC, amps are probably some sort of dynamic paired with a U89. Even on kits either an SDC or 89 as OH's works pretty well. I don't mind Audio Technica for general kit mic'ing duties either.. I think that's the problem with a "workhorse" mic, if you have a few options laying about and ample time on your hands chances are you can find something more suitable for a specific source. In a busy environment however spending a day trying out mic's isn't an option so a U87 comes into its own, you can trust that mic to get good results irrelevant of what it's thrown in front of. Vocals IMO are very personal and hard to match instantly, it takes a bit of searching. At one point I was adamant I needed a U67 / U87 / 251 (insert some expensive rental mic here) to get the best results. I personally suit an MD441 through a 2A, even though I'm not overly keen on dynamic's in general.
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Apr 24, 2021 16:45:12 GMT -6
Karen Carpenter is the ultimate '87 advert bar none.
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Apr 24, 2021 16:48:32 GMT -6
Yes the 'ol Stuck in Omni mic, at A&M. Kept aside under lock and key. Just like Dolly's RE15, at RCA! Chris P.S. And the 87 also for the Bee Gees "Miami Sound" too. (Cue Saturday Night Fever album)
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 26, 2021 14:14:37 GMT -6
Wait, wait, wait... stop the presses. Is nobody going to ask why you had a dozen U87's for a personal project studio? We're all just going to read this and move on like it's a totally normal statement? There's got to be a story here. How did this come about, and what did you do with the other 9? Well, thank you for asking! Yeah, I know... It was nutso, extreme, you name it... But, here's how it started... I found out in the late 90's/early 2000's that an 87 fits my voice very nicely (probably *most* people who have used a good one feel that way) when I rented one for an album of mine. I didn't buy one at that time. Then... A few years later, I took a break from music production (partially, because I had no understanding of how to make things sound good 'in the box' once I left the ADAT and hardware mixer setup I had before). By 2017, I decided to really get serious again about building my "dream studio" to support my love of writing and singing. I was tired of my cheapo mics I owned, and I decided to splurge and get a 2017 U87ai. The reason I wanted a brand new one was simple: I wanted an untouched 87 that would become the 'control' for me in any future mic shootouts I might perform.
Well, I grew a bit obsessive (to be honest) reading Klaus Heyne's takes on vintage 87s vs Ai's, and as I listened to some shootouts, etc, I finally said to myself, "Forget it. I'm tired of making assumptions by reading about the so-called differences in the various years. I want to learn this by doing my own 'hands-on' shootouts." 87 prices were no where near the COVID prices they now have soared to, so I was lucky and found deals on them from all over the globe. I even ended up at one time with a "museum quality" pair from 1970 which had never been used (or so it seemed). Looked as though they had been socked away in a safe for nearly 50 years! Long story short... After all of that, I now have very real hands-on experiences to go by with Neumann U87's ranging from the early 1970's all the way up to the 2000's and as recent as 2017. I even can tell you from doing some "head assembly swaps"... 98% of the 'tone' of a particular 87 is in the capsule. For instance, I took my 1977 head and put it on the body of my 1985, and their tonalities were criss-crossed. So, in my limited experience, the circuit doesn't do nearly as much as the particular capsule that sits on top of it. 18 months ago, I *still* had 6 left, and I ended up parting with all but the final 3 which were my "favs". So, that's my story. I know... It was a splurge, and it probably never would have occurred to me to do something that drastic, but for some sites like this one and (clears throat) that *other* site where people would share their experiences, and I just grew tired of wondering "is it all myth, or is there really something to this vintage battery compartment U87 vs modern Ai story that I keep hearing??" This is a great story! Definitely the way to do it if you're just going to do it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 15:44:02 GMT -6
By 2017, I decided to really get serious again about building my "dream studio" to support my love of writing and singing. I was tired of my cheapo mics I owned, and I decided to splurge and get a 2017 U87ai. The reason I wanted a brand new one was simple: I wanted an untouched 87 that would become the 'control' for me in any future mic shootouts I might perform.
Well, I grew a bit obsessive (to be honest) reading Klaus Heyne's takes on vintage 87s vs Ai's, and as I listened to some shootouts, etc, I finally said to myself, "Forget it. I'm tired of making assumptions by reading about the so-called differences in the various years. I want to learn this by doing my own 'hands-on' shootouts." This is a great story! Definitely the way to do it if you're just going to do it. I don't have a preference between the AI and vintage variant, I'd happily use either.. *Gets coat..
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,023
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2021 17:54:25 GMT -6
Wait, wait, wait... stop the presses. Is nobody going to ask why you had a dozen U87's for a personal project studio? We're all just going to read this and move on like it's a totally normal statement? There's got to be a story here. How did this come about, and what did you do with the other 9? Well, thank you for asking! Yeah, I know... It was nutso, extreme, you name it... But, here's how it started... I found out in the late 90's/early 2000's that an 87 fits my voice very nicely (probably *most* people who have used a good one feel that way) when I rented one for an album of mine. I didn't buy one at that time. Then... A few years later, I took a break from music production (partially, because I had no understanding of how to make things sound good 'in the box' once I left the ADAT and hardware mixer setup I had before). By 2017, I decided to really get serious again about building my "dream studio" to support my love of writing and singing. I was tired of my cheapo mics I owned, and I decided to splurge and get a 2017 U87ai. The reason I wanted a brand new one was simple: I wanted an untouched 87 that would become the 'control' for me in any future mic shootouts I might perform.
Well, I grew a bit obsessive (to be honest) reading Klaus Heyne's takes on vintage 87s vs Ai's, and as I listened to some shootouts, etc, I finally said to myself, "Forget it. I'm tired of making assumptions by reading about the so-called differences in the various years. I want to learn this by doing my own 'hands-on' shootouts." 87 prices were no where near the COVID prices they now have soared to, so I was lucky and found deals on them from all over the globe. I even ended up at one time with a "museum quality" pair from 1970 which had never been used (or so it seemed). Looked as though they had been socked away in a safe for nearly 50 years! Long story short... After all of that, I now have very real hands-on experiences to go by with Neumann U87's ranging from the early 1970's all the way up to the 2000's and as recent as 2017. I even can tell you from doing some "head assembly swaps"... 98% of the 'tone' of a particular 87 is in the capsule. For instance, I took my 1977 head and put it on the body of my 1985, and their tonalities were criss-crossed. So, in my limited experience, the circuit doesn't do nearly as much as the particular capsule that sits on top of it. 18 months ago, I *still* had 6 left, and I ended up parting with all but the final 3 which were my "favs". So, that's my story. I know... It was a splurge, and it probably never would have occurred to me to do something that drastic, but for some sites like this one and (clears throat) that *other* site where people would share their experiences, and I just grew tired of wondering "is it all myth, or is there really something to this vintage battery compartment U87 vs modern Ai story that I keep hearing??" Your fing nuts, I mean that as the highest compliment one can give another audio obsessive.
|
|
|
Post by guitfiddler on Apr 26, 2021 18:36:38 GMT -6
Karen Carpenter is the ultimate '87 advert bar none. Cheers, Ross That girl had some raw talent, imagine what she could've done if she didn't have that anorexia condition. Karen was an amazingly gifted person, I still listen to the Carpenters every once in a while, heartbreaking story, but great stuff!
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Apr 26, 2021 20:26:11 GMT -6
Karen Carpenter is the ultimate '87 advert bar none. Cheers, Ross A lot was to do with her crystal clear enunciation and delivery. Also she typically sang quite softly and even when she stepped it up a little she was very in control of her dynamics. So 10 out of 10 for mic technique.
|
|