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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2021 22:20:05 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2021 22:22:08 GMT -6
Oh - and I pounded it through a V-Comp lol. But this is what I track with anyway, so it's real world results.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2021 22:27:49 GMT -6
Interesting. I thought one clearly sounded better when I was in PT's...but now I don't know if I'm changing my mind.
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Post by mhbunch on Mar 1, 2021 22:52:05 GMT -6
These sound radically different. I'm sure its the EQ. But "B" sounds much more like a polished recording with its extended lows and scooped mid.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 2, 2021 9:49:50 GMT -6
Beuller…
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Post by svart on Mar 2, 2021 9:56:35 GMT -6
A sounds better to me. A little more sparkly and not as much woof in the low end.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 2, 2021 10:03:02 GMT -6
Both are pretty good, A is smoother. B has more proximity effect sound and more fricatives (esses, T's, F's, etc). I think I like "A" better here but in a more grinding blown out rock track "B" might have a little more energy to cut through a dense mix like that.
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Post by christopher on Mar 2, 2021 11:52:39 GMT -6
I chose B. A is amazing though, as an engineer I would want A to work. B is working better here though, doesn’t need any processing.
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Post by Mister Chase on Mar 2, 2021 12:17:36 GMT -6
You know, there is a polish to A that I really like, but at times it's a tad forward or something. B seems to just sit better in the track. It seems like it needs less wrangling in. The lows are a tad much on some of the notes.
My vote is blend them to taste in the track 50/50, then push one or the other depending on the phrase and how it sits in the track.
Going to vote B though because it sounds like less work = faster = more dollars per hour = better.
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Post by superwack on Mar 2, 2021 12:23:10 GMT -6
Both sound great and it actually sounds to me like A is the preamp and B is the same preamp but with the hardware EQ (I know that's not the case) I hear the major difference in the acoustic where B sounds like a record that would just be guitar and voice and A sounds like an intro guitar for a fuller arrangement, to me, the differences are much less pronounced once your vocal and the other elements come in.
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Post by teejay on Mar 2, 2021 12:30:46 GMT -6
A for me. This song has some intimacy, and I hear A as being more vocally intimate/exposed.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 2, 2021 12:56:47 GMT -6
A. Too much flab on the bottom of B.
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Post by javamad on Mar 2, 2021 13:35:14 GMT -6
B has more body but not sure if A isn't just as good for this track .. so a choice thing.
We need another test :-)
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Post by christopher on Mar 2, 2021 13:37:57 GMT -6
Interesting comments. I’m hearing B as a little dense in the lows, but well managed, like the compressor grabbed it right. A to me I’m hearing a couple plosives in lows, and punchier transients. In any case, I just listened in the car. I’m more impressed with B now.. boost the treble all the way and wow, the steady tone is really nice. Same EQ on A and the mids seem just not ideal. Thanks for sharing John, your expertise is incredibly enlightening.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 2, 2021 18:07:20 GMT -6
You know, there is a polish to A that I really like, but at times it's a tad forward or something. B seems to just sit better in the track. It seems like it needs less wrangling in. The lows are a tad much on some of the notes. My vote is blend them to taste in the track 50/50, then push one or the other depending on the phrase and how it sits in the track. Going to vote B though because it sounds like less work = faster = more dollars per hour = better. Two different takes but that’s an interesting idea. |
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Post by plinker on Mar 2, 2021 18:16:42 GMT -6
Are we supposed to be evaluating a particular track where the preamp was used (e.g., vox), or was the preamp used on all tracks and we should be evaluating the whole thing?
If it's the whole she-bang, then I think the sound-stage of A is deeper, resulting is more intimacy with the foreground tracks.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 2, 2021 18:17:16 GMT -6
I was hitting the V-Comp harder than o usually would - probably input at 1-2 o’clock…but it felt good. Probably a little over compressed though. It was hitting -20 easily.
So A was the Helios and B was the Stam 1073 with a tiny bit of 10kHz and 3.2kHz taken out.
Initially when I was bouncing, I thought I preferred the 1073 by a large margin. But listening in the thread, I think I liked the lift on the top end of the Helios. But I do think the Helios has some pointiness in the danger mids (1-4kHz). I don’t particularly remember that in the Tony Arnold ones. But - I rarely could ever get that pre over -15db before I started overloading AND I remember on vocals consistently pulling out 1-2kHz. This H2 is just the pre with no eq and also running at 30db I think pulling the output down a scoche. So maybe I should back it down a little and see if it reminds me more of the reissue. Also, before I pass judgement on the H2, I want to use it with the H2 which is supposedly arriving middle of this month.
The Stam with the Sowters is more like the BAE ones - a little darker. And I really love it.
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Post by Mister Chase on Mar 2, 2021 18:19:13 GMT -6
You know, there is a polish to A that I really like, but at times it's a tad forward or something. B seems to just sit better in the track. It seems like it needs less wrangling in. The lows are a tad much on some of the notes. My vote is blend them to taste in the track 50/50, then push one or the other depending on the phrase and how it sits in the track. Going to vote B though because it sounds like less work = faster = more dollars per hour = better. Two different takes but that’s an interesting idea. You're a machine. Granted I wasn't paying super close attention to the takes and more sonics, I still didn't notice... Maybe just a comp then... This is coming from a guy who just loves almost all gear and wants to use it all... so I would probably use both somehow... always on the fence...
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 2, 2021 18:19:38 GMT -6
Are we supposed to be evaluating a particular track where the preamp was used (e.g., vox), or was the preamp used on all tracks and we should be evaluating the whole thing? If it's the whole she-bang, then I think the sound-stage of A is deeper, resulting is more intimacy with the foreground tracks.
No - sorry. Should have been more clear. Just the vocal. |
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Post by plinker on Mar 2, 2021 18:23:47 GMT -6
Are we supposed to be evaluating a particular track where the preamp was used (e.g., vox), or was the preamp used on all tracks and we should be evaluating the whole thing? If it's the whole she-bang, then I think the sound-stage of A is deeper, resulting is more intimacy with the foreground tracks.
No - sorry. Should have been more clear. Just the vocal. OK. Thanks. Well, A brings the vocal up close -- where I personally want it -- and B has the vox in-line with the instruments. Maybe it was the EQ on B...dunno...but A puts the vox in the soundstage right where I expect it to be.
This sounds REALLY good, BTW! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Mister Chase on Mar 2, 2021 18:25:39 GMT -6
I was hitting the V-Comp harder than o usually would - probably input at 1-2 o’clock…but it felt good. Probably a little over compressed though. It was hitting -20 easily. So A was the Helios and B was the Stam 1073 with a tiny bit of 10kHz and 3.2kHz taken out. Initially when I was bouncing, I thought I preferred the 1073 by a large margin. But listening in the thread, I think I liked the lift on the top end of the Helios. But I do think the Helios has some pointiness in the danger mids (1-4kHz). I don’t particularly remember that in the Tony Arnold ones. But - I rarely could ever get that pre over -15db before I started overloading AND I remember on vocals consistently pulling out 1-2kHz. This H2 is just the pre with no eq and also running at 30db I think pulling the output down a scoche. So maybe I should back it down a little and see if it reminds me more of the reissue. Also, before I pass judgement on the H2, I want to use it with the H2 which is supposedly arriving middle of this month. The Stam with the Sowters is more like the BAE ones - a little darker. And I really love it. That Sowter iron is apparently the deal. I love the sound of it.
Yea, I hear the danger mids. But I imagine back on the days of early 70s tape machines and mics... that bump would sit real nice. I could be wrong. It's just with clear digital AD/DA, things come out a bit different. I pretty well loved the sound of the A-Designs P-1, but dang if the top wasn't just a bit too much for me. The darker stuff tends to be better especially if the signal chain is very simple like mine usually is(Mic, pre, Lynx (n).
Edit: of course this is all contingent upon mic and instrument. Sometimes I use bright/transparent pre's. Its just that they don't tend to work as often for me on a wide range of material.
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Post by Mister Chase on Mar 2, 2021 18:26:28 GMT -6
And that V-comp is insane. I would never have guess 20db of GR was happening. So good.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 2, 2021 19:40:22 GMT -6
Yeaup, that was a particularly nice sounding track all around, well done.
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Post by ab101 on Mar 2, 2021 22:43:19 GMT -6
John - your voice is beyond awesome. What a blessing!
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 3, 2021 2:31:23 GMT -6
John - your voice is beyond awesome. What a blessing! You da man |
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