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Post by Quint on Feb 18, 2021 18:16:58 GMT -6
So we've been without power here for the last 3.5 days with temps down around 10 degrees at night and either not getting above freezing during the day at all, or just barely. I'm not sure how cold it got in my studio without any heat, but I'm sure it got at least down into the 40s at night, if not the 30s or colder.
The first thing that sprung to mind is, what if any effect does prolonged cold have on ribbon elements in a ribbon mic?
For that matter, what about mic capsules in general? Any other things I should be worried about?
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Post by Ward on Feb 18, 2021 19:37:54 GMT -6
30º or 300º doesn't make a helluva lot of difference to metal. Now 3000º? Different story.
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Post by mulmany on Feb 18, 2021 19:54:12 GMT -6
If they are in cases you should be good. Just don't throw your mics on the ground. Metal becomes more brittle when its really cold.😁
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,976 
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Post by ericn on Feb 18, 2021 21:54:19 GMT -6
Moisture is more of a worry with any type of mic, and cold useally means moisture. Good cases all mics in ziploc bags with those little moisture obsorbstion packs. I use the ones that change color when they are no longer effective.
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 18, 2021 23:13:31 GMT -6
Moisture is more of a worry with any type of mic, and cold useally means moisture. Good cases all mics in ziploc bags with those little moisture obsorbstion packs. I use the ones that change color when they are no longer effective. Yeah, and I would think the bigger potential issue would be when the heat comes ON - just trying to avoid condensation. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 18, 2021 23:58:31 GMT -6
So we've been without power here for the last 3.5 days with temps down around 10 degrees at night and either not getting above freezing during the day at all, or just barely. I'm not sure how cold it got in my studio without any heat, but I'm sure it got at least down into the 40s at night, if not the 30s or colder. The first thing that sprung to mind is, what if any effect does prolonged cold have on ribbon elements in a ribbon mic? For that matter, what about mic capsules in general? Any other things I should be worried about? Really great that you asked this. I mic cabs below me in the garage and have been wondering a few weeks back how cold can a Royer-122 go. |
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Post by EmRR on Feb 19, 2021 9:46:09 GMT -6
Noise goes down with cold. Theoretical micro-C-hairs.
Can’t think of any reason that would be a problem. Humidity less of a problem than with condensers.
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Post by Quint on Feb 19, 2021 11:51:31 GMT -6
My specific concern with my ribbon mics was one of a mechanical nature.
The corrugated metal in a ribbon essentially acts like a spring. It flexes in the presence of sound waves, but then goes back to a taut position.
As we all know, things shrink as they get colder. If the ribbon element were exposed to cold temperatures for a prolonged period, causing it to draw more taut than usual, could it permanently reduce the springiness (sensitivity) of the ribbon element, similar to how storing a ribbon mic on its side, instead of upright, can cause the ribbon element to sag?
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Post by Ward on Feb 19, 2021 12:14:03 GMT -6
Moisture is more of a worry with any type of mic, and cold useally means moisture. Good cases all mics in ziploc bags with those little moisture obsorbstion packs. I use the ones that change color when they are no longer effective. Yeah, and I would think the bigger potential issue would be when the heat comes ON - just trying to avoid condensation. NAILED IT My specific concern with my ribbon mics was one of a mechanical nature. The corrugated metal in a ribbon essentially acts like a spring. It flexes in the presence of sound waves, but then goes back to a taut position. SNIP about sag It's not really all that taut. it's like a folded strip of aluminum foil that is pulled out like the bellows of an accordion. If it were pulled taut it wouldn't functuon. But you know, the best guy to discuss this with is Mark Fouxman. Sag . . . well, that's actually just loosey goosey super floppy. any ribbon tech can fix that in an hour. Best that they just cut a new ribbon however. |
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Post by EmRR on Feb 19, 2021 12:31:51 GMT -6
I would think the mass so small due to the thinness that it couldn't be an issue.
And.
Every ribbon mic purchased and shipped has seen temperature extremes, possibly exceeding your concerns. The number of times the box is thrown vasty exceeds it!
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Post by matt@IAA on Feb 19, 2021 12:40:51 GMT -6
Aluminum thermal coefficient of expansion is like 13 thousandths of an inch per inch per thousand degrees. Going from room temp to freezing, call it 50 degrees, is not much of a change - around .002" for a 3" strip.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 19, 2021 12:51:29 GMT -6
Just put it in the microwave to thaw it out - no problem.
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Post by Quint on Feb 19, 2021 13:31:29 GMT -6
Just put it in the microwave to thaw it out - no problem. Ha! |
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Post by Quint on Feb 19, 2021 13:33:32 GMT -6
Yeah, and I would think the bigger potential issue would be when the heat comes ON - just trying to avoid condensation. NAILED IT My specific concern with my ribbon mics was one of a mechanical nature. The corrugated metal in a ribbon essentially acts like a spring. It flexes in the presence of sound waves, but then goes back to a taut position. SNIP about sag It's not really all that taut. it's like a folded strip of aluminum foil that is pulled out like the bellows of an accordion. If it were pulled taut it wouldn't functuon. But you know, the best guy to discuss this with is Mark Fouxman. Sag . . . well, that's actually just loosey goosey super floppy. any ribbon tech can fix that in an hour. Best that they just cut a new ribbon however. Well tautness is a relative thing. I was just saying that there is the "normal" degree of tautness, and then there is what happens if a ribbon sags or is otherwise made to have it's tautness permanently degraded. But I get what you're saying. |
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Post by Quint on Feb 19, 2021 13:35:07 GMT -6
Aluminum thermal coefficient of expansion is like 13 thousandths of an inch per inch per thousand degrees. Going from room temp to freezing, call it 50 degrees, is not much of a change - around .002" for a 3" strip. Good point. Sounds like it's probably a non-issue. |
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Post by svart on Feb 19, 2021 14:23:33 GMT -6
Aluminum thermal coefficient of expansion is like 13 thousandths of an inch per inch per thousand degrees. Going from room temp to freezing, call it 50 degrees, is not much of a change - around .002" for a 3" strip. I literally just went to look this up but thought you might know. Yes, coefficient of expansion for aluminum is 0.0000128" per deg F. I figured a long ribbon with deep corrugations like an old RCA would be about 4" and a 50F change would be about 0.00256" shrinkage. I knew it wasn't going to be much, but I didn't realize it would be that little. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 19, 2021 17:47:49 GMT -6
Just put it in the microwave to thaw it out - no problem. Yeah, man! Is this Rock & Roll, or is this Rock & Roll?! |
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Post by chessparov on Feb 19, 2021 18:34:08 GMT -6
My first thought was that the Thread title... Would make a good Country song. (Ala Nelson's "Blue Eyes Cryng In The Rain")  Chris |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,976
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2021 18:47:02 GMT -6
My first thought was that the Thread title... Would make a good Country song. (Ala Nelson's "Blue Eyes Cryng In The Rain") Chris Willie came up with title after ole Blue Eyes told him the story of some idiot plugging in a u48 outside in a rain storm. In my best Barney Stinson voice “True story” |
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Post by ulriggribbons on Feb 19, 2021 19:13:53 GMT -6
I'm on the cold will have no effect train.
I also feel that storing ribbon mics on their side is totally fine. You're talking the effects of gravity on a piece of aluminum that is microns thin. It would take years to have an effect (decades), I've got several that have been on my test bench for >5 years, that are large geometry ribbons, and they are fine.
Ribbons are tuned to very low frequency, so yes it's a spring, but a very loose spring.
$.02
Jon
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Post by Ward on Feb 20, 2021 12:21:45 GMT -6
I'm on the cold will have no effect train. I also feel that storing ribbon mics on their side is totally fine. You're talking the effects of gravity on a piece of aluminum that is microns thin. It would take years to have an effect (decades), I've got several that have been on my test bench for >5 years, that are large geometry ribbons, and they are fine. Ribbons are tuned to very low frequency, so yes it's a spring, but a very loose spring. $.02 Jon Forgot you were here. Glad you are! Great response. Your expertise is acknowledged and appreciated. |
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Post by ulriggribbons on Feb 20, 2021 13:00:54 GMT -6
Thanks! I try to swing through on occasion to see what y'all are up to =)
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Post by chessparov on Feb 20, 2021 19:08:14 GMT -6
Never expect a Ribbon for precipitation.
Chris
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