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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 30, 2020 4:30:57 GMT -6
Hi there. it's been a few years since I visited this forum. I bought a grand piano ( http://instagram.com/p/CI_jqm5pMLg ) and need to mic it with something better than I have. I'm also looking to get a good swiss army knife mic, or mic pair. I'm hoping to get the mic(s) purchased before jan 1, 2021, and take advantage of those 48mo 0% financing deals being offered by sweetwater/vintage king/etc. I'm looking at the following mics for recording this instrument: - Earthworks PM40 (most likely gonna buy this + another matched pair to round out my mic collection) - Soyuz 013 matched pair (maybe the tube variant, sweetwater has a demo unit for sale) - Samar VL37A matched pair (if vintage king can find out when they'll be in stock) - Coles 4038 (no one has these, Coles isn't shipping from the UK right now) - AEA R84 - MikTek C5 matched Pair (backordered) Here's a clip and pic of the clip's mic setup www.dropbox.com/s/73bg5ue5tlm4nfj/NT5%20ez1073.wav?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/mtf99s80svd4uso/20201230_021354_HDR.jpg?dl=0Signal chain for this clip: mics: Rode NT5 matched pair Preamp: AML ez1073-500 Interface: Apogee Symphony MK1 Mic position: 18" apart, 6" back from hammers, 4" above the strings. this is the raw sound from the mics. The piano is a brand new Baldwin BP190, and hasn't received its first tuning or acclimated to the room it's in. I've had it for about 10 days now. I couldn't be happier with the piano and am looking forward to breaking it in over the next few months, and hearing its voice develop. Any thoughts on what direction to go with regard to choosing some mics to record it? Regarding a swiss army knife mic, I'd be looking for something to replace my MicRehab-modded CV4 that I've had for I'd guess 6 or 7 years. Thanks! |
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Post by keymod on Dec 30, 2020 4:53:28 GMT -6
Nice purchase! Enjoy.
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 30, 2020 5:37:36 GMT -6
Depends what kind of sound you’re looking for. The earthworks will be the cleanest, in the room kind of sound. I would go for the tube Soyuz. It will give you just a little character while still maintaining lot of detail. You could use those on just about anything and they will sound awesome. Coles are awesome. I use an aea r88 and mic the back of my piano. For what I do it sounds killer, but if you’re looking for Swiss army, I’d go Soyuz.
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Post by svart on Dec 30, 2020 6:48:29 GMT -6
How about just some km184's?
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Post by Guitar on Dec 30, 2020 7:09:18 GMT -6
Now that's what I call a gear purchase, really nice piano!
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Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2020 8:49:34 GMT -6
You want spaced omni for that job.
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 30, 2020 8:56:53 GMT -6
I use my pair of Stager SR-2N for my upright Yamaha U1 and they sound stellar. They could be a great alternative to the Coles, easier to place and a bit less fragile.
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 30, 2020 8:57:52 GMT -6
You want spaced omni for that job. A pair of Oktavas with the Omni capsule does the job nicely. My Oktava bodies were modified by Joly, never used the stock ones. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 30, 2020 10:20:09 GMT -6
You want spaced omni for that job. I’ll second this. I love using a pair of CMC6 with the Omni capsules. Plus if you get the cardioid caps with it you’ll have a really nice set of mics. I’m strapped for time but I’ll post some songs of different genres I’ve recorded on the same piano with a variety of players later for you to peruse. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2020 10:38:30 GMT -6
Of all the mics you listed, if they were in the mic locker, the ones that I'd try first would be the Samar's - followed by the Coles.
Again, as suggested, you really need to decide what suits you, your esthetic, your needs, and your ultimate goals.
Solo piano vs. banging it out in a rock band context call for completely different approaches. As I mentioned to you earlier, I definitely lean towards ribbons over SDCs. Especially for more acoustic sounding tracks.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 30, 2020 10:45:29 GMT -6
You want spaced omni for that job. I’ve really been wanting to get the omni capsules for my Soyuz 013 SDCs. Someday I think I shall. And the hypercardioid caps, too. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2020 10:49:49 GMT -6
Good to see you back !
Of what’s listed I would lean towards Earthworks or Coles, yeah polar opposite in tone but I know either can work on piano. Personally my first thought was I would want something multpattern so I have some room for adjustment depending on instrument and room, plus it just makes for a more versatile do everything mic.
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2020 10:59:49 GMT -6
Good to see you back ! Of what’s listed I would lean towards Earthworks or Coles, yeah polar opposite in tone but I know either can work on piano. Personally my first thought was I would want something multpattern so I have some room for adjustment depending on instrument and room, plus it just makes for a more versatile do everything mic. The Coles are just fantastic for piano - with one exception for me. With very busy or densely clustered chordal sections, I tend to get too much harmonic buildup, and they just wear me out over time. Other than that - fantastic. For wide, open, (and especially high voiced sections) they are quite possibly impossible to beat. For me at least. As I mentioned elsewhere - when it gets meaty and dense and aggressive in the midrange - the Joly modded 205's get the nod over the Coles. But yeah, almost always ribbons for me now, and my placement is quite unique. I hate the artificial Left to Right panning of traditional on the hammers placement personally. |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 30, 2020 11:02:35 GMT -6
My fav's are.
Either a Royer SF-12 (or SF-24) Stereo Ribbon
Or a pair of Gefell UM-70's
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2020 11:53:57 GMT -6
Good to see you back ! Of what’s listed I would lean towards Earthworks or Coles, yeah polar opposite in tone but I know either can work on piano. Personally my first thought was I would want something multpattern so I have some room for adjustment depending on instrument and room, plus it just makes for a more versatile do everything mic. The Coles are just fantastic for piano - with one exception for me. With very busy or densely clustered chordal sections, I tend to get too much harmonic buildup, and they just wear me out over time. Other than that - fantastic. For wide, open, (and especially high voiced sections) they are quite possibly impossible to beat. For me at least. As I mentioned elsewhere - when it gets meaty and dense and aggressive in the midrange - the Joly modded 205's get the nod over the Coles. But yeah, almost always ribbons for me now, and my placement is quite unique. I hate the artificial Left to Right panning of traditional on the hammers placement personally. Yeah, the Coles can be wonderful, maybe it’s that old live guy in me, I’m just at an age where I find it hard to say there is one piano mic set I would want. I also guess just the general idea of a specific instrument mic is fading from my lexicon. One thing to always remember is how much the personality of a piano changes day to to day, hell I remember a big Baldwin that would change by the hour under the heat of a bunch of PARs! Did I ever mention the poor lighting guys idea of a Microwave oven? Bring down first electric put sandwich under a couple of pars for a minute! Totally agree on the fake panning, that’s just lazy placement ( this is work after all). |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2020 12:00:28 GMT -6
My fav's are. Either a Royer SF-12 (or SF-24) Stereo Ribbon Or a pair of Gefell UM-70's Is there anything UM70’s sound bad on? |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 30, 2020 12:26:23 GMT -6
Thanks, everyone.
You can't get Coles right now, so I'm not bothering with them. maybe in 6 months, they'll be shipping. Vintage King said they still have orders from October that haven't been filled for a matched pair of Coles.
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Post by bradd on Dec 30, 2020 13:43:38 GMT -6
I hate to hear this about the Coles. They are first up on my "to buy" list for 2021.
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Post by drumsound on Dec 30, 2020 13:44:53 GMT -6
That's a shame about the Coles. My friend Chris Garges at Old House Studio in Charlotte gets wonderful sounds on his Yamaha with them. I didn't hate what you got from the NT5, but wonder how they will do with louder, more aggressive playing.
I'm sure the tube Soyuz would be quite useful. People rave about the Samar mics in general...
I'm going to throw a slightly more 'low rent' suggestion in. sE T2 pair. I have an old upright piano and I often use them on the soundboard, and it makes the piano sound much richer than it actually is. They are great with transients and have a great sounding extension. They are especially nice in M/S.
The added bonus is that they are quite useful on other sources too.
Also, congratulations on a lovely new instrument.
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Post by Ward on Dec 31, 2020 8:43:05 GMT -6
strongest recommendations off the top of my head:
#1, (Neumann) Gefell M930 stereo pair. ORTF will give you wide stereo, XY for more of an accurate and evenly weighted stereo capture. The M950 is the wide cardioid version amd the M960 is the omni, a pair of M960s would be amazing.
The other . . .
#2. Neumann KM84 stereo pair, any two KM84s are close enough to work together.
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Post by Omicron9 on Dec 31, 2020 14:10:49 GMT -6
Congratulations on the new piano! Not to sound like a broken mp3, but the Shure KSM-141 is such an underrated and fantastic mic. Cardioid and omni with a simple twist of the collar. I use these on so many acoustic instruments. I can't say enough good things about them. www.shure.com/en-US/products/microphones/ksm141All the best to you in your mic search. Regards, -09 |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 31, 2020 14:18:16 GMT -6
My fav's are. Either a Royer SF-12 (or SF-24) Stereo Ribbon Or a pair of Gefell UM-70's Is there anything UM70’s sound bad on? Spitty screamer punk rock kids.....first thing I had when mine was new..... |
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