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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2020 10:29:27 GMT -6
I think the X price is also driven by its complete redesign, 2 more sharc chips, and I think both the X and X16 have more current converters then the Motu, but I’m not that up on Motu, but wiz’s comparative comments apply.
I hate complicated embedded software, apollo and symphony mkii were pretty straight forward, I prefer that.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 15, 2020 10:32:13 GMT -6
If you like simple software, Quantum is where it's at. Some of the simpler 2x2 interfaces are like this too, almost all hardware control for every main function.
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Post by reddirt on Dec 15, 2020 17:23:57 GMT -6
You've got the Prism Titan there but you may in fact only want the Prism Lyra (less ins etc but essentially the same tech specs I think) at mucho dollero less.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 15, 2020 18:22:08 GMT -6
You've got the Prism Titan there but you may in fact only want the Prism Lyra (less ins etc but essentially the same tech specs I think) at mucho dollero less. Cheers, Ross Yeah, I was thinking of going all the way down to two channels, but I do like to record drums occasionally, and sometimes I'll get a few musicians in here that I need to record at once. 8 channels is perfect for my space even though I'll usually just use two.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 15, 2020 22:07:33 GMT -6
Voted for Lynx N - I use SF Apollo. I feel the Lynx sound quality is there praised ( Like Prism ) but didn’t realize it lacked interface features.
If you are deep in the UAD system, I would think into how your workflow will change leaviing UAD. What improvements does the new workflow bring you were missing ? ( may just be G.A.S. )
Also just read a thread on GS where measurements of the Apollo 8X P , Rednet, Quantum, Lynx N etc vs every other unit in it class.
The 8XP had the best Distortion / dB Range & freq response aside from Apogee Symph ( 1 & 2 ). The 8XP mon out due 129 dB Lynx is 120 I believe 9 dB is a lot of headroom esp for LOUD 24/32 bit mixes feeding your monitoring chain. The A/D was more dynamic & balanced as well like +/- .5 dB from 10Hz -20 kHz.
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 16, 2020 5:47:08 GMT -6
That’s really interesting. We all know specs don’t tell the whole story of how something sounds, but there does seem to be a lot of love for the newer x series interfaces. I know it’s been discussed elsewhere, but does anyone know if the sound of say the x6 will be that much better than the mkii16? Thanks!
Also, I think the only interface features I’d miss on the Lynx is the monitor section and that is easily solved with something like the Heritage RAM. Of course that’s more money, but not much. Also, as I was reading, the Lynx new preamp cards add their own conversion. So if I added four channels of pres in the future, that wouldn’t interfere with the 8 channels already in the unit. The pre cards are also only a little over 600 dollars, which is pretty phenomenal for 4 reference quality pres. I’m gonna go check out that other thread you mentioned.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 16, 2020 6:40:01 GMT -6
Specs don't mean everything, but it's sort of like having a beautiful partner, not hard to appreciate, and often part and parcel with great sound performance.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 18, 2020 1:14:48 GMT -6
I agree re: specs aren’t everything. I was surprised how well the Apollo 8XP tested The X16 has 133 dB mon outputs! The Apollo 8XP/ X16 has +24dbu AD & DA for analog HW, tape machine, console, or mastering chain, that’s huge headroom I/o. Apollo mon outs have +9db & +13dB more output/ dynamic range / capability over the Lynx line outs. + 9db in SPL / volume is 3 times louder. GS thread called “ Apollo 8XP: Extremely disappointed in the sound “.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 18, 2020 1:17:57 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 2:10:48 GMT -6
ChaseUTB those specs aren't indicative at all of real world performance. They mostly are because the UAD Apollo is using newer chips than the Lynx and wasn't a total race to the bottom. The Lynx is noticeable cleaner and uses better analog parts and probably has cleaner DSP. The quality difference becomes obvious with treble, orchestral music, and instruments that are pretty much just shaped noise like synths and distorted guitars. Conversion is something where you largely get what you pay for. Lynx and Prism are well above MOTU, UAD, and RME and those guys are better than the likes of Focusrite and Presonus despite RME using some truly bottom basement parts and having a truncated mixer. UAD and RME are pretty much "Made with Chabuduo in the People's Republic of China"
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 18, 2020 3:32:19 GMT -6
@chase the gs post is such a joke:), the X is a very good sounding interface. been said before, but all these interfaces will get the job done, I have read criticisms of each And yet they all sell many many units: whose right ? Sonics, features, price, workflow, sweeteners, they all factor in, but you can do very good work with anyone of them: pick your poison!
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 18, 2020 7:02:08 GMT -6
I had someone send me some files last night of a new x series Apollo vs a modded x series, vs a 2192. Gotta say I was not impressed. It still sounds like an Apollo. If anything, it made me want a 2192. That thing bested both x’s easily. I also listened to a few lynx vs Motu files I was able to get my hands on. No contest to my ears. Lynx was so much clearer and more dynamic. I know internet files are not real world personal use, but if you listen to enough, it starts to paint a picture. I know it’s a budget stretch, but I’ve pretty much settled on the Lynx. I’m in no rush though. But when the time comes, that’s what I’m grabbing. Not talking down Apollo’s at all here. I’ve made some really great recordings with mine, I’m just ocd, and I know what my ears like.
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Post by phantom on Dec 18, 2020 7:56:11 GMT -6
I had someone send me some files last night of a new x series Apollo vs a modded x series, vs a 2192. Gotta say I was not impressed. It still sounds like an Apollo. If anything, it made me want a 2192. That thing bested both x’s easily. I also listened to a few lynx vs Motu files I was able to get my hands on. No contest to my ears. Lynx was so much clearer and more dynamic. I know internet files are not real world personal use, but if you listen to enough, it starts to paint a picture. I know it’s a budget stretch, but I’ve pretty much settled on the Lynx. I’m in no rush though. But when the time comes, that’s what I’m grabbing. Not talking down Apollo’s at all here. I’ve made some really great recordings with mine, I’m just ocd, and I know what my ears like. Yeah, that's not a surprise to me. Lynx and Prism are on another level compared to Apollos, MOTU, Apogee and etc. Not surprised by the 2192 either, as it was designed by Rich Williams. Btw, I think Burl Audio makes the best of the best today. What were your thoughts about the Apollo vs MOTU?
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Post by mcirish on Dec 18, 2020 8:14:56 GMT -6
I voted for Lynx. I've had nothing but great sound and great support from them over the years. They also have rock solid drivers that I can work at very low latency.
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 18, 2020 9:43:27 GMT -6
I had someone send me some files last night of a new x series Apollo vs a modded x series, vs a 2192. Gotta say I was not impressed. It still sounds like an Apollo. If anything, it made me want a 2192. That thing bested both x’s easily. I also listened to a few lynx vs Motu files I was able to get my hands on. No contest to my ears. Lynx was so much clearer and more dynamic. I know internet files are not real world personal use, but if you listen to enough, it starts to paint a picture. I know it’s a budget stretch, but I’ve pretty much settled on the Lynx. I’m in no rush though. But when the time comes, that’s what I’m grabbing. Not talking down Apollo’s at all here. I’ve made some really great recordings with mine, I’m just ocd, and I know what my ears like. Yeah, that's not a surprise to me. Lynx and Prism are on another level compared to Apollos, MOTU, Apogee and etc. Not surprised by the 2192 either, as it was designed by Rich Williams. Btw, I think Burl Audio makes the best of the best today. What were your thoughts about the Apollo vs MOTU? I didn’t get a direct comparison.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Dec 18, 2020 10:06:22 GMT -6
If you want to push the budget, there's also the Burl B16 MADI w/an RME MADIface USB. I ran the RME for a few years with my B80 and it was rock solid. Found their software confusing as hell (lots of debate out there on it) but the near-zero latency monitoring was great.
Only switched to go PT HD.
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 18, 2020 10:25:14 GMT -6
That's probably a little over budget.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 18, 2020 11:21:13 GMT -6
Reading through the Apollo off for repair thread got me thinking.... If I was to leave the Apollo behind, what would I get? Here are some thoughts I had. I'm hoping some of you could chime in with yours as well. 1. I don't need 16 channels anymore. I've moved away from mixing with outboard, and I don't track full bands. So I'm looking at 8 channel units. 2. I would still pick up a quad satellite so I could use the plugins. 3. On the cheap end, I could pick up a Motu 828es. I would probably come out on top here, but I wonder if I would be sacrificing any audio quality. I have a friend who uses Motu exclusively, and he seems to make good recordings. Motu is also due for an upgrade on some of their units, so it's possible a new one may come out in a year or two. 4. Apogee Symphony. I've always dug the Symphony sound, but the fan makes me nervous. I'm in a small one room project studio that's very quiet. I've heard mixed experiences with the fan, and I don't think I'm willing to take the chance with that kind of money. 5. Lynx Aurora n. I'm also really into the Lynx sound...or lack thereof. I'd really love something super clean like that, as I have a great preamp and mic selection. I would need a monitor controller since there is no option for that on the Aurora, but I was looking at something cheap like the Heritage Baby Ram, so no real big deal there. Kind of leaning this way at the moment. An 8 channel USB unit wouldn't kill my bank account, and if I ever went back to a bigger space, I can expand the unit easily to accommodate. 6. PrismSound Titan. Sweetwater just started carrying these. They are definitely a sexy all purpose interface. Also has 4 preamps so I could ditch a few in the studio and consolidate even more. This would also give me more money to invest in the interface. Seriously considering this one as well. 7. Not really interested in any older used interfaces, so I'm keeping it to new stuff on the market. I'm open to other suggestions as well. Sound quality is paramount as well is functionality. I don't want something unstable that will have me messing with drivers all day and night. Also, I could just get like an x8 Apollo or something, but the point of this thread is, what if I didn't. Anyway, go. Lemme hear some ideas. Haven’t read the thread, but do you have an X series Apollo? I actually preferred the more linear sound of the Apollo DA to the Symphony. And thought it was slightly better on top compared to MOTU. Luna makes no difference to you?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 18, 2020 11:50:06 GMT -6
I've used every gen of UAD's Apollos. Nothing could have been more stable and reliable. I never liked the converter on Mk i and Mk II. The converters on the Mk III are better enough now that I don't actually think about it anymore.
Printing with plugs seems risky, but sometimes it can be a godsend. As for Luna, I couldn't care less. Only after it's been around a while will I take the time to learn it. The only interesting thing to me is the summing feature. Perhaps UAD will just sell the summing engine as a plug-in?
Obviously UAD is creating a self enclosed recording eco-system, but it seems like you just keep needing more and more DSP. One of these days I'll just buy an octo satellite. Probably when they come out with some new massive storage system they'll be less expensive second hand.
The Apollo has reached the point where if have an issue with the tone of something like a mic, it's the mic, not the Apollo.
I think their ease of use and reliability counts for a lot.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 18, 2020 11:52:26 GMT -6
I thought the silver Apollos I had sounded really good too but they certainly had a "tone." After all, I end up chasing something more "transparent" it's the ideal in my head for digital conversion. I really need to hear a current one but I don't know anyone who has one.
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Post by mhbunch on Dec 18, 2020 12:17:29 GMT -6
In my experience the silverface apollos were some of the worst converters ever I've heard. Muddy, murky, horrible grey water buildup on everything is the best way I can describe it. And the DA was the same.
The new Apollo 16s sound incredible. Definitely on par with or above symphony mk1. I think the MK2 is just a little ahead of the race - but at this level it's all so good that it really just boils down to preferences in workflow with the provided softwear each converter uses.
I also have to continue to sing the praises for the Apogee Element series - really stunning AD/DA quality (like going from highschool baseball to the MLB when I compared it with the ensemble in my home setup) I think it is the best bang for the buck for a home studio where you dont need a bunch of i/o
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 18, 2020 12:36:29 GMT -6
Reading through the Apollo off for repair thread got me thinking.... If I was to leave the Apollo behind, what would I get? Here are some thoughts I had. I'm hoping some of you could chime in with yours as well. 1. I don't need 16 channels anymore. I've moved away from mixing with outboard, and I don't track full bands. So I'm looking at 8 channel units. 2. I would still pick up a quad satellite so I could use the plugins. 3. On the cheap end, I could pick up a Motu 828es. I would probably come out on top here, but I wonder if I would be sacrificing any audio quality. I have a friend who uses Motu exclusively, and he seems to make good recordings. Motu is also due for an upgrade on some of their units, so it's possible a new one may come out in a year or two. 4. Apogee Symphony. I've always dug the Symphony sound, but the fan makes me nervous. I'm in a small one room project studio that's very quiet. I've heard mixed experiences with the fan, and I don't think I'm willing to take the chance with that kind of money. 5. Lynx Aurora n. I'm also really into the Lynx sound...or lack thereof. I'd really love something super clean like that, as I have a great preamp and mic selection. I would need a monitor controller since there is no option for that on the Aurora, but I was looking at something cheap like the Heritage Baby Ram, so no real big deal there. Kind of leaning this way at the moment. An 8 channel USB unit wouldn't kill my bank account, and if I ever went back to a bigger space, I can expand the unit easily to accommodate. 6. PrismSound Titan. Sweetwater just started carrying these. They are definitely a sexy all purpose interface. Also has 4 preamps so I could ditch a few in the studio and consolidate even more. This would also give me more money to invest in the interface. Seriously considering this one as well. 7. Not really interested in any older used interfaces, so I'm keeping it to new stuff on the market. I'm open to other suggestions as well. Sound quality is paramount as well is functionality. I don't want something unstable that will have me messing with drivers all day and night. Also, I could just get like an x8 Apollo or something, but the point of this thread is, what if I didn't. Anyway, go. Lemme hear some ideas. Haven’t read the thread, but do you have an X series Apollo? I actually preferred the more linear sound of the Apollo DA to the Symphony. And thought it was slightly better on top compared to MOTU. Luna makes no difference to you? I have a 16mkii right now. It's been serving me well, but since the pandemic I've really streamlined things in the studio. Pretty much sold off all of my outboard, working on upgrading monitoring etc.... I have zero interest in Luna right now. I've spent the last 15 years on Reaper and there is still so much to learn. I'm so fast on it and I can get the job done. I'd actually love to sell off the Apollo with plugs and get out of the UAD universe completely. I also have Slate everything, and most of the plugs are comparable. Also just got into the Fuse Audio plugs. Wow, they are fantastic. UAD doesn't wow me anymore. I'm sure the new X series is great in person, but I have other ideas for my setup here. Maybe at some point I'd grab a satellite to run the few plugins I really love, but I barely use what I have anymore. I do love Capital Chambers and the Neve Dynamics I just picked up, but beyond that, I have other stuff that works just as well. I agree with the last poster about the old Silver Apollos. I really hated that thing. I wanted to stay in the UA world so I bought the best one several years ago, the 16mkii. I don't need 16 channels anymore, and I know I can do better conversion wise. My goal is to have a top tier converter and fantastic monitors (I'll be pm'ing you about that), so I can just get down to producing. 8 channels is more than enough and most interfaces out there have a simple mixer for tracking. That's all I need/want at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 12:47:56 GMT -6
I had someone send me some files last night of a new x series Apollo vs a modded x series, vs a 2192. Gotta say I was not impressed. It still sounds like an Apollo. If anything, it made me want a 2192. That thing bested both x’s easily. I also listened to a few lynx vs Motu files I was able to get my hands on. No contest to my ears. Lynx was so much clearer and more dynamic. I know internet files are not real world personal use, but if you listen to enough, it starts to paint a picture. I know it’s a budget stretch, but I’ve pretty much settled on the Lynx. I’m in no rush though. But when the time comes, that’s what I’m grabbing. Not talking down Apollo’s at all here. I’ve made some really great recordings with mine, I’m just ocd, and I know what my ears like. There’s a lot of weird stuff in conversion. The chips are all pretty much black boxes and then there are the analog parts, dsp, clocking, power supplies, and drivers. Like the MOTU AVB and Lynx Aurora (N) use the same Opamps on the output but different chips. They both have a big clearish sound but the “background timbre” of the DA is totally different; it’s like a different canvas. Then there are timbral similarities between the Apogee Minidac, Lavry Blacks, Dangerous Converts, and Bricasti m1 because they all use the same AD1955 chip but they all sound different. Of course the best, by far, is the Bricasti but it’s the most expensive. The Dangerous converters all keep the same general color too but the Converts sound 10x bigger and better than the older and cheaper ones. You also get companies like Apogee radically changing the sound of their conversion over time. Old, mid 2000s, and current Apogee have a totally different high end and now they seem much more reliant on the warmth in the black box that is the ESS chips. Maybe their dsp just got a lot better because the plugs are good except for the cramped top end at 44.1khz? You can’t tell other than the perceived effect of the whole unit. Then there is stuff like AKM’s newer chips where the company self-admittedly did a 180 degree turn on the timbre. velvetsound.akm.com/global/en/voices/interviews/teac-round-table-discussion/If you can ever find older continuous versions of hifi products from TEAC and Schiit products back to back with nothing changed much in them inside but the older to newer AKM chips, it’s pretty stark difference. They get more detail but also mud, warmth, and a weird veil. Snares don’t snap right pretty much on everything with them. The RME ADI-2 Pro is the cleanest I’ve heard with that chip but it still has the veil that’s super obvious when you put it up to the Lynx Hilo or MOTU boxes. The Lynx and MOTU are way warmer than the RME ADI-2 but better at conveying warmth and mud that is there on the recording. Weird drum and guitar body resonances come through a lot better. Of course the Lynx is much clearer and the Prism a little bit more hifi but even clearer than that in the top end. The Lyras and Orpheus show much up awful clipping and imd there is in modern pop. And bad digital. If you want to hear aliasing and truncation, the MOTU DA will just cross its arms and sneer at you, the Lynx will call you names, and Prism will take you out back and beat you.
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 18, 2020 13:08:47 GMT -6
Years ago as I was really noticing an improvement in my tracking and mixing, I made a comment that the better I get at this, the better my converters sound. I think that still hold true, but only up to a point. As you start to focus in on what's good and what is working in your setup, you can also focus on what you what don't need and or want to improve. For me, I realized that I just want to get stuff to the computer with the best sound possible. I invested in some great mics over the years as well as great preamps. The outboard wasn't making a dramatic improvement to me so I sold it off. If I get stuff "to tape" the way I want it, I usually barely touch it in the box. So that is what led me down this converter rabbit hole. I hear room for improvement, so I'm going for it at some point. Hopefully sooner than later, but it's going to happen. I like what Dan is saying here. I had a Burl B2 for a while that was really beautiful sounding. Not light years ahead of the Apollo, but it definitely had something special going on. If I could afford 8 channels of Burl I'd go for it, but I was mostly running it clean. Lynx is known for their clean, clear, balanced conversion. That's what I want, and it's relatively affordable to get into their converters. Plus, I don't see Lynx creating a newer better model every four or five years. So in the long run, I think it will actually save me money. I know people still on the original Auroras and they still sound world class.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 18, 2020 14:04:19 GMT -6
Any possibility of hearing that comparison? I’ve always been interested in Aurora but never heard one.
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