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Post by Quint on Nov 30, 2020 11:30:52 GMT -6
I just finally got around to buying Keyscape and it should be here in a few days.
For those of you using it in standalone, I just wanted to verify that standalone mode still outputs midi to the DAW?
Standalone seems nice because it allows you to operate independently of your DAW's buffers, but it won't do me any good if standalone mode doesn't write midi to the DAW.
I tried looking around online but I couldn't find any conclusive info.
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Post by Quint on Dec 2, 2020 9:05:29 GMT -6
It also has occurred to me that I may be asking the wrong question, regardless of whether or not the standalone app can output midi.
I've never tried this, so bear with me. Is it possible to mult a midi stream inside the computer, prior to it entering any app, DAW, VI, etc?
In other words, I'd like to find a way to send a single stream of USB midi from my controller to the computer, at which point that midi data would then be simultaneously sent to the Keyscape Standalone app (for realtime monitoring purposes) AND to the DAW to be recorded for further manipulation at a later time.
Is this possible?
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Post by ragan on Dec 2, 2020 9:19:30 GMT -6
It also has occurred to me that I may be asking the wrong question, regardless of whether or not the standalone app can output midi. I've never tried this, so bear with me. Is it possible to mult a midi stream inside the computer, prior to it entering any app, DAW, VI, etc? In other words, I'd like to find a way to send a single stream of USB midi from my controller to the computer, at which point that midi data would then be simultaneously sent to the Keyscape Standalone app (for realtime monitoring purposes) AND to the DAW to be recorded for further manipulation at a later time. Is this possible? I’m not totally sure but I think it’s more a matter of you selecting which port to look at within each app. If you’ve got MIDI coming in via USB then just tell the stand-alone Keyscape app to look at it and also tell a DAW track to look at it. I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t work as you’re wanting it to. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 2, 2020 10:02:06 GMT -6
It also has occurred to me that I may be asking the wrong question, regardless of whether or not the standalone app can output midi. I've never tried this, so bear with me. Is it possible to mult a midi stream inside the computer, prior to it entering any app, DAW, VI, etc? In other words, I'd like to find a way to send a single stream of USB midi from my controller to the computer, at which point that midi data would then be simultaneously sent to the Keyscape Standalone app (for realtime monitoring purposes) AND to the DAW to be recorded for further manipulation at a later time. Is this possible? I’m not totally sure but I think it’s more a matter of you selecting which port to look at within each app. If you’ve got MIDI coming in via USB then just tell the stand-alone Keyscape app to look at it and also tell a DAW track to look at it. I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t work as you’re wanting it to. Yeah, maybe that's the best way to put it. Not so much the sending of a midi stream as just simply telling each app/DAW which midi port to look at. Like I said, I've only ever run a very simple midi setup in the past, and will be brand new to Keyscape when it arrives in a few days, so the notion of using midi in a standalone app, while seemingly advantageous due to the possibility of a lower buffer, is still not something I've fully wrapped my brain around. I'm just hoping to get a handle on this, best as I can, before Keyscape arrives so that I can hit the ground running. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 2, 2020 10:06:09 GMT -6
Also, this just occurred to me. For this all to work, I guess I would have to have two instances of Keyscape pulled up. One instance in the standalone app for realtime monitoring, and another instance loaded in the DAW for playback.
I would assume that's possible, but of course it takes up additional resources having them both running at once. I wonder if you can sort of turn one or the other temporarily off, depending on whether you are monitoring realtime or listening to the playback?
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 2, 2020 18:12:21 GMT -6
Also, this just occurred to me. For this all to work, I guess I would have to have two instances of Keyscape pulled up. One instance in the standalone app for realtime monitoring, and another instance loaded in the DAW for playback. I would assume that's possible, but of course it takes up additional resources having them both running at once. I wonder if you can sort of turn one or the other temporarily off, depending on whether you are monitoring realtime or listening to the playback? Yeah, for this whole thing to work the way you've planned, it kind of seems needlessly complex to me. What's the issue with just running it within your DAW host? What host are you using? How low a buffer can you get with your machine and audio interface? I would think you'd almost always be better off just running it in your DAW when recording. I don't have Keyscape, though, so I don't know if it works differently somehow than other VIs. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 3, 2020 9:26:56 GMT -6
Also, this just occurred to me. For this all to work, I guess I would have to have two instances of Keyscape pulled up. One instance in the standalone app for realtime monitoring, and another instance loaded in the DAW for playback. I would assume that's possible, but of course it takes up additional resources having them both running at once. I wonder if you can sort of turn one or the other temporarily off, depending on whether you are monitoring realtime or listening to the playback? Yeah, for this whole thing to work the way you've planned, it kind of seems needlessly complex to me. What's the issue with just running it within your DAW host? What host are you using? How low a buffer can you get with your machine and audio interface? I would think you'd almost always be better off just running it in your DAW when recording. I don't have Keyscape, though, so I don't know if it works differently somehow than other VIs. ^^^^. This. It's how I always do things. The only potential drawback I see could be latency. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 3, 2020 10:06:53 GMT -6
Also, this just occurred to me. For this all to work, I guess I would have to have two instances of Keyscape pulled up. One instance in the standalone app for realtime monitoring, and another instance loaded in the DAW for playback. I would assume that's possible, but of course it takes up additional resources having them both running at once. I wonder if you can sort of turn one or the other temporarily off, depending on whether you are monitoring realtime or listening to the playback? Yeah, for this whole thing to work the way you've planned, it kind of seems needlessly complex to me. What's the issue with just running it within your DAW host? What host are you using? How low a buffer can you get with your machine and audio interface? I would think you'd almost always be better off just running it in your DAW when recording. I don't have Keyscape, though, so I don't know if it works differently somehow than other VIs. I may be overthinking it. Like I said, this is the first time I'm attempting to do anything like this. In the past, I've done it exactly like you describe. I was just hoping to be able to run Keyscape at low latency in standalone mode while leaving the buffer set higher in Reaper to avoid any CPU issues. I guess I'll see if this is even an issue once I install Keyscape and give it a go. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 3, 2020 10:09:24 GMT -6
Yeah, for this whole thing to work the way you've planned, it kind of seems needlessly complex to me. What's the issue with just running it within your DAW host? What host are you using? How low a buffer can you get with your machine and audio interface? I would think you'd almost always be better off just running it in your DAW when recording. I don't have Keyscape, though, so I don't know if it works differently somehow than other VIs. ^^^^. This. It's how I always do things. The only potential drawback I see could be latency. Latency concerns are the main reason I was considering this. Standalone mode just seemed like it could be a potential win win. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 3, 2020 10:21:21 GMT -6
^^^^. This. It's how I always do things. The only potential drawback I see could be latency. Latency concerns are the main reason I was considering this. Standalone mode just seemed like it could be a potential win win. Unless you have an ancient or very slow computer or a DAW with issues, I don't see this as a "real world" problem. I'd test it that way first, and then decide if you need to add more complexity (stand alone while recording into DAW vs. hosting in the DAW) or not. I know tons of people using all kinds of VSTi's, and I don't know any of them who use their plugins in a stand alone mode unless they are gigging with them live or something to that effect. If they are producing music, they are hosted in their DAW. |
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Post by ragan on Dec 3, 2020 10:43:41 GMT -6
I tried to run SD3 standalone to avoid the PT buffer I needed to have the mix going but I found that having the standalone SD3 instance at super low buffer created the same kinds of clicks and pops that having the PT super low did. It (standalone app) taxes the CPU just like the DAW buffer does.
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Post by Quint on Dec 3, 2020 15:59:12 GMT -6
The scenario I'm imagining where this could become a problem requiring a workaround with standalone is when a VI part needs to be recorded after a mix has already begun and there are a ton of plugins instantiated, the idea being to keep the DAW at a buffer size which keeps things stable, which may not be possible to achieve if you want low enough latency to be able to perform through a VI.
Yeah, you can freeze, mixdown, print, etc. to then be able to turn everything else off to allow for a lower buffer, but then that is a workaround too. There's no free lunch, unfortunately.
Anyway, my preference would be to just use one instance of Keyscape in the DAW, just as some of you have mentioned, and work with that at acceptably low buffers. But if I decided that standalone was worth giving a shot, I just wanted to make sure it was possible to receive the midi stream in two different places at once. It sounds like that should be possible from what I'm hearing.
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