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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 29, 2020 14:42:19 GMT -6
My trusty Tannoy Sub just started oscillating in a terrible way. After cycling it on/off a few times it started working again but I fear it’s come to its end. I can’t really afford to be with out a subwoofer, I’m mixing really bass heavy music at the moment, and a lot of it.
Any suggestions for an affordable replacement?
I just came across the Kali Audio WS-12, it seems to have all the features I want but I’m unfamiliar with the brand. Was also thinking of a KRK sub. I would appreciated the ability to turn the sub on/off via foot switch which both of these will do.
I’m under pressure to buy something now and take advantage of Black Friday deals.
Help me spend money I don’t have. Thanks all.
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Post by stratboy on Nov 29, 2020 15:07:27 GMT -6
I recently sold my Tannoy TS-8 and am looking for a new sub as well. I’m very interested in the SVS subs, the SB series in particular. Ericn has actually demoed a ported SVS sub and has nice things to say. Perhaps he would chime in.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2020 20:20:24 GMT -6
Having once owned a Tannoy TS12 (hey it was $50 or so when MF cleared out their outlet) your problem is common and a repair should run less than $50.
Now, ever since the fine DR asked for his SVS PB3000’s back I have been GASSing for a sub upgrade. I even sent an email to GC about a pair of used Bagend ELF cabinets thinking a ELF / Infra box the Adcoms and the XTA DP box would be fun. Of course GC hasn’t gotten back to me ( I’ll send a note to a friend who is a VP). This is probably a good thing because I keep missing the SVS’s and that damn set up app.
Look the good DR bought them because Stereophile rated them at the same level as the JL Audio Fathom, probably the best sub to date with a price of a used Hyundai. Is the JL better? Yeah a little bit less recovery time, the Amp and high pass is definitely better and the SVS 3000 series is all RCA. Considering I paid less for the Questeds, the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge +, the BEL 2002 that powers the Questeds and what would be the cost of a pair of PB 3000 than a single Big JL Fathom, I can live with the SVS’s and bypass the high pass with some toys From Harrison Labs. I have said for years I’m not a fan of DSP to solve room and speaker issues, lately I have warmed to DSP for LF issues, well I’m all hot for the ease and power of the SVS DSP and App. It just makes it all too easy, their App on the I pad and sound tools on my IPhone with my MBHO/ Audix measurement mic with custom profile. I really would like to Demo the SVS 2000 series but both my local dealers have single subs in home theater set ups with amplification that I really would never use ( I asked if I could demo a pair with the Big B&W’s and the McIntosh tube amp they both have or even bring the BEL in both said NO) I would love to hear them and I’m impressed enough with the more expensive brothers to say give them a try, they seam to have a very liberal return policy. I see why they do, because I can’t see them going back. Oh I heard a story about a dealer who won’t put the SVS’s in the same room as the JL Audio Fathom or E series because if people heard them next to each other he wouldn’t sell any JL Audio.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Nov 29, 2020 21:15:07 GMT -6
I've had the KRK 10" for a couple of years and it does the job well. My stuff is rock/electronic so I'm usually just referencing it to see how loud the kick is, etc. Most of the time, it's off. I've got it on a TC Autopilot (I think that's right?) knob to control the level. My monitor controller (Burl B26) doesn't have a sub out, so the TC works great to control the level in the room.
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Post by brenta on Nov 30, 2020 8:09:57 GMT -6
The 10” Monoprice Studio Sub is dirt cheap and has the foot switch feature.
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 30, 2020 10:40:25 GMT -6
Having once owned a Tannoy TS12 (hey it was $50 or so when MF cleared out their outlet) your problem is common and a repair should run less than $50. Hey Ericn, my sub is the Tannoy PS-110b. If its an easy fix, like changing out a leaking cap, I'd be all for that. Are you familiar with the problem? I was listening to some drum recordings on youtube when the sub started resonating on a low note, which turned into an oscillating buzz that wouldn't go away, even when all audio was muted. I cycled the sub on/off, it did the same thing a few times but then started working fine...
Any suggestions on a fix? Should I just open it and start testing components?
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Post by Quint on Nov 30, 2020 11:27:02 GMT -6
If you're using monitors with built in DSP, is not a concern that just using any old sub will cause time alignment issues?
I'm on the cusp of pulling the trigger on a pair of Dynaudio Lyd 48, which have built in DSP. I know that Dynaudio sells a companion sub made to work with the Lyds and some of their monitors. It has some sort of time alignment feature, but that sub is also expensive.
These cheaper subs, like the one from Monoprice, interest me because I only occasionally feel like it would be nice to have a sub (although maybe I just don't know what I've been missing), but I also don't want to get a sub and have it cause issues because my monitors are delayed slightly behind the sub due to DSP in the monitors and lack thereof in the sub.
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Post by svart on Nov 30, 2020 12:01:47 GMT -6
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2020 12:24:48 GMT -6
Having once owned a Tannoy TS12 (hey it was $50 or so when MF cleared out their outlet) your problem is common and a repair should run less than $50. Hey Ericn, my sub is the Tannoy PS-110b. If its an easy fix, like changing out a leaking cap, I'd be all for that. Are you familiar with the problem? I was listening to some drum recordings on youtube when the sub started resonating on a low note, which turned into an oscillating buzz that wouldn't go away, even when all audio was muted. I cycled the sub on/off, it did the same thing a few times but then started working fine...
Any suggestions on a fix? Should I just open it and start testing components?
I think it was a cap, I dropped it at the tech because I assumed it was all SMD and didn’t want to mess with it, it turned out it was through hole. He found it easily and quickly enough that I gladly paid the minimum.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2020 12:29:28 GMT -6
If you're using monitors with built in DSP, is not a concern that just using any old sub will cause time alignment issues? I'm on the cusp of pulling the trigger on a pair of Dynaudio Lyd 48, which have built in DSP. I know that Dynaudio sells a companion sub made to work with the Lyds and some of their monitors. It has some sort of time alignment feature, but that sub is also expensive. These cheaper subs, like the one from Monoprice, interest me because I only occasionally feel like it would be nice to have a sub (although maybe I just don't know what I've been missing), but I also don't want to get a sub and have it cause issues because my monitors are delayed slightly behind the sub due to DSP in the monitors and lack thereof in the sub. Most of the time “time aligned “ should have at the cross over point added to it to be more accurate. Lots of natural phase shift on the extreme lowend. Will it make a difference? Yes but I’d rather have a non aligned sub than no sub!
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Post by Guitar on Nov 30, 2020 13:00:17 GMT -6
I was looking at the Presonus Temblor and maybe the KRK one but I haven't tried either yet. You can find some sweet deals on the Presonus one if you shop around. Pro Audio Star sometimes, for example.
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Post by winetree on Nov 30, 2020 13:27:15 GMT -6
The 10” Monoprice Studio Sub is dirt cheap and has the foot switch feature. I'm running as Aux speakers in one room dual Monoprice subs with Monoprice 6" dual concentric speakers on top. I also have the same dual Monoprice subs with JBL 305 MKIIs in a Tube Trap attack wall in another room. I find dual subs make a difference in low end and imaging and the Monoprice subs don't make that big of a difference to the bank account. And with dual foot pedals to turn them off and on. Whoa!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2020 16:15:06 GMT -6
The 10” Monoprice Studio Sub is dirt cheap and has the foot switch feature. I'm running as Aux speakers in one room dual Monoprice subs with Monoprice 6" dual concentric speakers on top. I also have the same dual Monoprice subs with JBL 305 MKIIs in a Tube Trap attack wall in another room. I find dual subs make a difference in low end and imaging and the Monoprice subs don't make that big of a difference to the bank account. And with dual foot pedals to turn them off and on. Whoa! Dual always works better and is simpler to set up. Let me explain some basics again. When we add a sub or subs we are using both the crossover and acoustical summing to combine the sub and the satellites. In theory as long as we keep the sub and each of the satellites within a distance of less than 1 wave length of the crossover freq they should sum. Unfortunately the real world is a cruel place and things are not really as simple as they seam. Most crossovers do not completely cut off at the stated crossover Frequency, instead they have a slope either -6dB, -12dB, -18dB, -24dB or even -48dB (via DSP) per octave and a corner frequency. What does this mean? OK let’s define it this way, 24dB at 120hz the filter is going to cut the highs out of sub and the lows out of satellites at a rate of 24dB per Octave, 120hz is not the frequency where the filter starts cutting its the point where both filters have cut 3dB. A 12 dB filter is cutting out half as much per Octave. From a simple one dimensional stand point, looking just at Frequency response steeper crossover slope (24dB) is best, but we also have to look at phase. Filters Also effect phase response and for the most part the steeper the filter the more phase shift. So from just a phase stand point -6dB per Octave great, -24dB not that great. Now with a single sub we have 3 speakers (trying to) working together Left with a response like this \, right also with a response like this \, the sub with a response like this /. Often you get things right with a single sub you notice an awesome lowend, more woomp it’s defined, it goes lower but there is a mid bass suck out and or smear. This is where Stereo, not dual but stereo subs makes all the difference With stereo subs we are summing 2 distinct stereo pairs that will also acoustically as one, think of it as first summing 2 groups of left sat \ / left sub, right sat \ / right sub. With stereo subs we get to move each sub closer to the satellite of the same channel the magic here is that idea of we will get acoustic summation if the 2 speakers are within 1 wave length, here we go back to the crossover of -24dB at 120hz. Let’s say our monitor level is at 74dB now let’s look at 60hz, it’s not all sub our satellites are still putting out approx 50dB and the opposite is true at 240hz, the sub is putting out 50dB. We want that 50dB the sub is putting out to sum with as little phase difference as possible to the sub the distance for acoustical summation at 240 will be half that of 120. And at 480 1/4 of that. At 480 our -24dB at 120hz at 74 dB sub will be putting out 26 dB and at 960 2dB, if we can get that sub driver cone within a foot of the satellite diaphragm operating at 960hz we should have acoustical summation! Stereo subs just make it easier to get good acoustical summation by putting each sub nearer its satellite. Are to cheaper subs better than a single expensive sub? Well this the billion dollar question, in most cases with my 3 way Questeds when I can place a sub directly under the cabinets I have found the answer to be 2 cheaper subs are 100 times easier to dial in than a single sub 4 times the price if the cheap subs go deeper than the Questeds will go. Same if I set up the F11s or the Magnepans. The big TADs are the exception simply because it’s really hard to get the sub drivers close enough ( big heavy cabinets that I can’t just put on a stand and put a sub under or next to the woofer. With the SVS I was up and running and wowing people in 10 min, with the DSP and App in an hour it was like the Questeds had simply grown an Octave range, if I had put up a scrim and visually hidden the SVS’s below them you would never have known the subs were there ( I know because I’m mean and did it to the kid and my wife who have both been trained by and have to live with me and didn’t know the SVS were even here wife and up and running kid). Wife has not forgiven the Dr who loaned me the SVS before we set them up at his place where they replaced a single JL fathom we couldn’t get to intergrate after 2 years. It took 1/2 an hour to get the stereo SVS up and giant smile on his face, he says he has made a couple of small DSP changes in the month since.
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