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Post by svart on Nov 2, 2020 12:04:22 GMT -6
Getting back to this..
Yeah, I see 14 auxs at 48 but only 6 at 88.2k. I really wish the aux and groups were just one or the other and could be assigned either way. It would streamline assigning these things.
Anyway I think I've gotten things closer to being set up, I should start trying to get audio through the routing tonight maybe.
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Post by forgotteng on Nov 7, 2020 20:59:44 GMT -6
This thread makes me feel so much better about myself. I drove myself mad many many days trying to get my head around routing and like everyone else says MOTU tech support has always been outstanding for me. I'm surprised they didn't put me on their no call list. I'm starting to get comfortable with it. I have an extensive setup so it took a while. (2 24Ai's, 2 24Ao's, 8A, and Monitor8) The truth is there is no way I could afford to do what I am doing at the quality level I am getting from any other product out there. Stick with it.
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Post by svart on Nov 8, 2020 13:09:30 GMT -6
So I replaced the XLR connectors I had on my headphone snakes with trs last night and started testing my headphone routing.
So from reaper I have good headphone feeds. I'll work on the streams from the 24ai today.
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 8, 2020 14:07:19 GMT -6
If there's a good place to use AI in the future of music production its in stupidly complex tasks like Motu's routing matrix.
Me: "Siri, route my subgroups to discrete headphone mixes" Siri: "Yes master, right after I murder you in your sleep" Me: "Say what?" Siri: "Um...nothing, cough cough".
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Post by svart on Nov 9, 2020 10:17:28 GMT -6
This thread makes me feel so much better about myself. I drove myself mad many many days trying to get my head around routing and like everyone else says MOTU tech support has always been outstanding for me. I'm surprised they didn't put me on their no call list. I'm starting to get comfortable with it. I have an extensive setup so it took a while. (2 24Ai's, 2 24Ao's, 8A, and Monitor8) The truth is there is no way I could afford to do what I am doing at the quality level I am getting from any other product out there. Stick with it. It could have been so easy. SSL did it with their app SSLMixer for their DSP cards. You just drop a "channel", then add an "input" block and assign it to a hardware input. You can then drop an "output" block and route it to another channel you are going to use for a headphone bus. From there you can drop yet another "output" block and assign the stream out to your DAW and add another "input" block to receive a stream from your DAW. You can then drop VST containers to run plugs, or add sends/returns/inputs/outputs to whatever and wherever. Finally you can drop a fader on any channel/bus if you wanted. In 5 minutes you can have a whole mix routed and running with the DAW and headphone stems. If MOTU can revamp their GUI to be like this, they would rule the interface world.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 9, 2020 12:56:19 GMT -6
HAVE YOU DRIVEN DANTE?
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Post by svart on Nov 9, 2020 13:43:26 GMT -6
Isn't DANTE a protocol? You can't really *drive* a protocol, but you can configure it's usage with various GUIs. My SSL rig used MADI, which was also highly convoluted, but the GUI made it easy to deal with. I think the same is true for MOTU and AVB, that they could revamp their GUI and make their configuration and routing grade-school simple.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 9, 2020 16:01:24 GMT -6
Isn't DANTE a protocol? You can't really *drive* a protocol, but you can configure it's usage with various GUIs. My SSL rig used MADI, which was also highly convoluted, but the GUI made it easy to deal with. I think the same is true for MOTU and AVB, that they could revamp their GUI and make their configuration and routing grade-school simple. Dante is a protocol. Used widely, de-facto standard for networked audio. Equally ‘crappy’ GUI, I’m unaware of any GUI options, you have to use the DANTE controller window, which every device on a network sees. You ‘drive’ both it and AVB by configuring routings. I keep saying it: MOTU AVB works mostly the same, maybe better in some ways. ANYONE walking into an AVB situation who knows DANTE from any sort of large networked install situation is going to be able to drive it. It’s a massive advantage from a standardization viewpoint, knowing the biggest customers spending the most will see easy integration, and MOTU could probably really care less about the chump change of music recording world in a financial comparison. It makes far more sense than creating another non-standard any newbie will have to learn, they cut a lot of ‘newbie’ out of the equation this way....at least everywhere other than small studios. The next generation of industrial install AV will require all employees to drive these networks, and you can count on any kid coming through recording school to be trained on it since that’s where most of them will end up if they stick with audio as a profession. Flip it around: if you learn AVB you know most of Dante. You can walk into a whole new subset of live shows with a laptop and a CAT5e cable and configure a multitrack capture from the console provided you have the Dante virtual sound card license. I’d encourage anyone to take the Dante certification courses online, level 1 and level 2. It’ll explain most of AVB, reading between the lines.
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Post by cyrano on Nov 10, 2020 5:39:10 GMT -6
Dante is a subset of AVB. With some patenting, licensing and cost added for less features. No video, fi.
OTOH, if you want to talk AVB, start with a TCP/IP basics course. It's networking, tuned for audio and video transport.
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Post by michaelcleary on Nov 11, 2020 21:33:08 GMT -6
Isn't DANTE a protocol? You can't really *drive* a protocol, but you can configure it's usage with various GUIs. My SSL rig used MADI, which was also highly convoluted, but the GUI made it easy to deal with. I think the same is true for MOTU and AVB, that they could revamp their GUI and make their configuration and routing grade-school simple. Dante is a protocol. Used widely, de-facto standard for networked audio. Equally ‘crappy’ GUI, I’m unaware of any GUI options, you have to use the DANTE controller window, which every device on a network sees. You ‘drive’ both it and AVB by configuring routings. I keep saying it: MOTU AVB works mostly the same, maybe better in some ways. ANYONE walking into an AVB situation who knows DANTE from any sort of large networked install situation is going to be able to drive it. It’s a massive advantage from a standardization viewpoint, knowing the biggest customers spending the most will see easy integration, and MOTU could probably really care less about the chump change of music recording world in a financial comparison. It makes far more sense than creating another non-standard any newbie will have to learn, they cut a lot of ‘newbie’ out of the equation this way....at least everywhere other than small studios. The next generation of industrial install AV will require all employees to drive these networks, and you can count on any kid coming through recording school to be trained on it since that’s where most of them will end up if they stick with audio as a profession. Flip it around: if you learn AVB you know most of Dante. You can walk into a whole new subset of live shows with a laptop and a CAT5e cable and configure a multitrack capture from the console provided you have the Dante virtual sound card license. I’d encourage anyone to take the Dante certification courses online, level 1 and level 2. It’ll explain most of AVB, reading between the lines. It is very similar to the Dante grid. I noticed this right away the 1st time i worked with Dante.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 14, 2020 18:33:52 GMT -6
It looks really similar to what Metric Halo used in its first generation/iteration of interfaces.
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Post by svart on Nov 18, 2020 8:51:25 GMT -6
getting back to this..
I finally got into setting up audio into the DAW and everything seems to work. I found that the plan to mix headphones on the 24ai and send the headphone mix through an AVB stream to the 828es to be routed out the analog outputs was not needed. I first set up the streams for the 24ai directly from the inputs through AVB to the 828es and those directed out to the USB-to-computer. It's quite interesting that the names propagate through so that if I name a stream in the MOTU app, it shows up with that name in Reaper. It at least takes some of the complexity away.
Anyway, looping through Reaper and back out added just a tiny, tiny bit of latency to the point where I don't think I need to go through the motions of setting up the other AVB stream for headphone mixes from the 24ai. I guess we'll see if this holds up when more tracks and effects are added.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 18, 2020 10:29:13 GMT -6
svart, you jinxed me. I had been using my 24ai/24ao setup for 3 years without issue. 2 weeks ago, I decided that I was going to try setting up monitor mixing with the MOTU mixer rather than my analog console. Spent some time configuring it and got everything working. Then yesterday morning, I had a session open, no issues. Closed that one, opened a new one when my client arrived, all of a sudden my converter outputs 1-2 no long output anything. Can't get any sound to go through those two outputs. Had another session last night, same issue. Can't figure out what's going on. Total disaster.
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Post by matt@IAA on Nov 18, 2020 11:41:33 GMT -6
The best part is that the names in the matrix show up in the DAW. Makes life so simple after setup.
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Post by svart on Nov 18, 2020 12:18:09 GMT -6
svart , you jinxed me. I had been using my 24ai/24ao setup for 3 years without issue. 2 weeks ago, I decided that I was going to try setting up monitor mixing with the MOTU mixer rather than my analog console. Spent some time configuring it and got everything working. Then yesterday morning, I had a session open, no issues. Closed that one, opened a new one when my client arrived, all of a sudden my converter outputs 1-2 no long output anything. Can't get any sound to go through those two outputs. Had another session last night, same issue. Can't figure out what's going on. Total disaster. Strange. Do you see the audio activity lights blinking in the MOTU routing when your audio through 1-2? In the device tab, those aren't muted there are they? I've been saving versions of my setups as I go in case I do something to break one. Luckily I have not had a situation that I couldn't figure out now that I know how things flow. It's still overly complicated, but at least I sort of get it now.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 18, 2020 16:08:36 GMT -6
svart , you jinxed me. I had been using my 24ai/24ao setup for 3 years without issue. 2 weeks ago, I decided that I was going to try setting up monitor mixing with the MOTU mixer rather than my analog console. Spent some time configuring it and got everything working. Then yesterday morning, I had a session open, no issues. Closed that one, opened a new one when my client arrived, all of a sudden my converter outputs 1-2 no long output anything. Can't get any sound to go through those two outputs. Had another session last night, same issue. Can't figure out what's going on. Total disaster. Strange. Do you see the audio activity lights blinking in the MOTU routing when your audio through 1-2? In the device tab, those aren't muted there are they? I've been saving versions of my setups as I go in case I do something to break one. Luckily I have not had a situation that I couldn't figure out now that I know how things flow. It's still overly complicated, but at least I sort of get it now. I had my routing saved too, still wasn't working. No blinking lights on 1-2. Nothing on the 24ao meters for 1-2. No idea what was going on. Just updated my firmware on both units. Still wasn't working. Rebooted a couple times, computer and units, reloaded my routing, finally got it back up and running. Literally, have no idea what the issue was. Lost probably an hour at the top of 2 different sessions yesterday, then came in 3 hours early for my session tonight to get this together. Seems all good right now though, and the firmware update at least seems to be a good one to improve the mixer ever so slightly. Just wish I had a clue on what the hell went wrong...
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Post by svart on Nov 19, 2020 8:38:50 GMT -6
Strange. Do you see the audio activity lights blinking in the MOTU routing when your audio through 1-2? In the device tab, those aren't muted there are they? I've been saving versions of my setups as I go in case I do something to break one. Luckily I have not had a situation that I couldn't figure out now that I know how things flow. It's still overly complicated, but at least I sort of get it now. I had my routing saved too, still wasn't working. No blinking lights on 1-2. Nothing on the 24ao meters for 1-2. No idea what was going on. Just updated my firmware on both units. Still wasn't working. Rebooted a couple times, computer and units, reloaded my routing, finally got it back up and running. Literally, have no idea what the issue was. Lost probably an hour at the top of 2 different sessions yesterday, then came in 3 hours early for my session tonight to get this together. Seems all good right now though, and the firmware update at least seems to be a good one to improve the mixer ever so slightly. Just wish I had a clue on what the hell went wrong... I've tried to update twice using the firmware updater app and the 24ai keeps trying to update with the 828es firmware. The one time I was able to get it to initiate an update within the device page, the 24ai just sat there for over an hour not updating and I had to reboot it to get it to come back online.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 19, 2020 9:53:22 GMT -6
Updating this MOTU stuff is a pain in the ass, and I avoid it as much as possible. Early on, it would sometimes destabilize the system.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 19, 2020 12:47:18 GMT -6
I had my routing saved too, still wasn't working. No blinking lights on 1-2. Nothing on the 24ao meters for 1-2. No idea what was going on. Just updated my firmware on both units. Still wasn't working. Rebooted a couple times, computer and units, reloaded my routing, finally got it back up and running. Literally, have no idea what the issue was. Lost probably an hour at the top of 2 different sessions yesterday, then came in 3 hours early for my session tonight to get this together. Seems all good right now though, and the firmware update at least seems to be a good one to improve the mixer ever so slightly. Just wish I had a clue on what the hell went wrong... I've tried to update twice using the firmware updater app and the 24ai keeps trying to update with the 828es firmware. The one time I was able to get it to initiate an update within the device page, the 24ai just sat there for over an hour not updating and I had to reboot it to get it to come back online. I updated each unit individually. Each was connected with USB and ethernet to the computer. Updated one, then swapped the cables to the other and updated. Worked out like that.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 19, 2020 14:10:42 GMT -6
I’ve never seen one update with anything beyond the ethernet plugged in. Any other connection = confusion. I have no idea how a large networked install gets updated....yes I do, IT walking around all day long cursing the whole time.
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Post by svart on Nov 20, 2020 8:02:06 GMT -6
I’ve never seen one update with anything beyond the ethernet plugged in. Any other connection = confusion. I have no idea how a large networked install gets updated....yes I do, IT walking around all day long cursing the whole time. I was reading last night and the document says "Firmware updating requires a network cable connection, so before you begin, connect a standard CAT-5 or CAT-6 network cable from the network port on your MOTU interface to one of the following: Your computer's network port (or a Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter) Your home, studio, or office network (with internet access) An AVB port on a MOTU AVB switch (connected to your office network through the Ethernet port)" So I guess that means real, internet-connected ethernet, not just the AVB connection from another unit. Another document simply said "update through the AVB network" so I assumed they meant connected through AVB to another unit that has USB would suffice.. But I guess that's wrong.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 20, 2020 9:28:17 GMT -6
I’ve never seen one update with anything beyond the ethernet plugged in. Any other connection = confusion. I have no idea how a large networked install gets updated....yes I do, IT walking around all day long cursing the whole time. I was reading last night and the document says "Firmware updating requires a network cable connection, so before you begin, connect a standard CAT-5 or CAT-6 network cable from the network port on your MOTU interface to one of the following: Your computer's network port (or a Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter) Your home, studio, or office network (with internet access) An AVB port on a MOTU AVB switch (connected to your office network through the Ethernet port)" So I guess that means real, internet-connected ethernet, not just the AVB connection from another unit. Another document simply said "update through the AVB network" so I assumed they meant connected through AVB to another unit that has USB would suffice.. But I guess that's wrong. Definitely need actual network for it to update.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 20, 2020 14:25:15 GMT -6
I’ve never seen one update with anything beyond the ethernet plugged in. Any other connection = confusion. I have no idea how a large networked install gets updated....yes I do, IT walking around all day long cursing the whole time. I was reading last night and the document says "Firmware updating requires a network cable connection, so before you begin, connect a standard CAT-5 or CAT-6 network cable from the network port on your MOTU interface to one of the following: Your computer's network port (or a Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter) Your home, studio, or office network (with internet access) An AVB port on a MOTU AVB switch (connected to your office network through the Ethernet port)" So I guess that means real, internet-connected ethernet, not just the AVB connection from another unit. Another document simply said "update through the AVB network" so I assumed they meant connected through AVB to another unit that has USB would suffice.. But I guess that's wrong. The kicker! - YOU MUST DISCONNECT USB AND THUNDERBOLT FOR UPDATES! There aren't multiple ethernet connections on units so with more than one..... Someone has to go change physical connections at all units to do a full set of updates! I've never updated my two units in less than a half hour, sometimes more like an hour before everything finally reboots happily.
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2020 20:50:41 GMT -6
So I have someone who wants to rent the studio for a week to track guitars and stuff, but they are adamant they use their own computer, a Mac.
Anyone know if they install the motu apps and drivers on a mac if the routing settings will stay the same between my PC and their Mac?
I know it's technically a webpage into the devices, but I don't want to spend hours setting up the routing again..
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 21, 2020 21:22:36 GMT -6
My understanding is that the mixer/routing preferences are saved on the physical unit itself, so yes it should work. But I’m assuming there’s a way to save a backup file to another location, for safety.
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