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Post by allbuttonmode on Oct 10, 2020 4:59:52 GMT -6
![]() Hi. Having had the SB for a little while now, I’m starting to find it indispensable. But I know I’m still deep in the honeymoon phase, and don’t fully trust myself around it. So, a question for you SB users here: When do you know you’ve saturated the mix too much? I know, as time passes - as well as mixes - I’ll (hopefully) recognise the signs, but right now, I just hear improvement. Usually when the lights turn pink, the signals p r e t t y hot, which sets off the alarm in my head. Help! (BTW: It's not on pink at all times, though. I just realised that wasn't too clear in my ramblings above) Attachments:
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 10, 2020 5:30:35 GMT -6
![]() Hi. Having had the SB for a little while now, I’m starting to find it indispensable. But I know I’m still deep in the honeymoon phase, and don’t fully trust myself around it. So, a question for you SB users here: When do you know you’ve saturated the mix too much? I know, as time passes - as well as mixes - I’ll (hopefully) recognise the signs, but right now, I just hear improvement. Usually when the lights turn pink, the signals p r e t t y hot, which sets off the alarm in my head. Help! (BTW: It's not on pink at all times, though. I just realised that wasn't too clear in my ramblings above)
I am not a SB user but I use other gear with transformers. Wehn it starts to sound unpleasend or is too much of a good thing I dial it back. I think its not diffrent with the SB than with any other gear, you need to use your ears.
I think very helpful is to check out the extremes under good cans. Cans are like an audio micropscope....
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Post by allbuttonmode on Oct 10, 2020 5:50:11 GMT -6
I am not a SB user but I use other gear with transformers. Wehn it starts to sound unpleasend or is too much of a good thing I dial it back. I think its not diffrent with the SB than with any other gear, you need to use your ears. I think very helpful is to check out the extremes under good cans. Cans are like an audio micropscope....
Thank you. Yes, I do check the mixes elsewhere and on headphones as well. I am just doubting myself, as the unit is new to me, and I don't recognise the artifacts yet. |
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Post by stormymondays on Oct 10, 2020 5:59:09 GMT -6
I have a pair of Chromas. To me the only artifact is obvious distortion, mostly in the low frequencies and drum hits. I think if you A/B with and without the SB at the same subjective listening level, you'll be fine.
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Post by nomatic on Oct 10, 2020 7:08:14 GMT -6
I often have the led in the pink even on masters and it is almost always a improvement! Also the new CAPI opamps in the A position are pure fire...
Over and Out...
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Post by allbuttonmode on Oct 10, 2020 7:42:14 GMT -6
Also the new CAPI opamps in the A position are pure fire... Over and Out... Oooh... That sounds interesting! |
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Post by phantom on Oct 10, 2020 8:10:14 GMT -6
Yeah, great answers already.
- Use your ears. If it sounds good, good. If it sounds too much, back it off a bit. The meter goes Blue-Pink-Red. Red is usually distortion, Pink can be fine or over saturated, depends on the track. Also, they are slow meters by design, so it'll not reflect peaks.
- Use headphones to double check and always listen to the whole song.
- A/B with the track before passing through the Silver Bullet.
Also, for each song the "this is too much" level will change. It might come to your personal taste as well. But I can say that normally the SB only improves the mix. Relax and enjoy the gear.
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Post by boostudio on Oct 10, 2020 9:03:11 GMT -6
I’ve had a SB for about 2 years and use it on every mix and also to test many singular tracks in a session — I love the thing.
I’m not saying anything new here but I feel the best advice is not to worry about the lights too much — use your ears. Check your sounds in rough mixes in other settings and compare to a reference mix you like (best if ref is the same style / genre = apples to apples).
If it sounds good, it is good!!!
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Post by drbill on Oct 10, 2020 10:09:04 GMT -6
Lots of good info for you allbuttonmode. Most notably - - I often have the led in the pink even on masters - If it sounds too much, back it off a bit. - The meter goes Blue-Pink-Red. Red is usually distortion, Pink can be fine or over saturated, depends on the track. - always listen to the whole song. - A/B with the track before passing through the Silver Bullet. - Wehn it starts to sound unpleasend or is too much of a good thing I dial it back - Cans are like an audio micropscope.... For me, listening to the ENTIRE song is important. Especially if you are pushing things fairly hard. It's easy for a few over saturated peaks to sneak thru when you're not looking late in a song when things get bigger. Also, these days, I'm tending not to push as hard as I used to. I think anytime we get something new and fall in love with it - we want MORE!!!!! I remember getting the Miad4040's, and I LOVED how they sounded with a boost a 330Hz. I should have known, but I ended up pushing that - a lot - on a mix, and in retrospect, I went way over the top. If in doubt, do the second suggestion above and back it off a little. But, just to be specific - you do NOT need to be scared of pink.  . Congrats on becoming a part of the SB tribe, and have fun with it and make great music! Appreciate all you guys and the excellent advice for allbuttonmode! |
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Post by phantom on Oct 10, 2020 11:20:00 GMT -6
One thing I saw on your picture, and I have noticed on my unit as well, is that when you are using both Mojos in serial (like A>N or N>A) the output knob of the first Preamp will drive and act like the input knob of the second preamp.
So, if you have the First Output almost all the way up, it can drive too hard the second circuit no matter how you set it up. So while using on serial I normally leave the first output pretty low and adjust the drive of the second preamp with it's own Input knob and the overall output of the entire Silver Bullet mainly with the second output knob.
Also, while using them in serial, I'm extra cautious if both Mojos need to be on the Pink side of things. I think I normally leave one of them "cleaner". But that's not a rule at all.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 10, 2020 12:29:53 GMT -6
Most of the time, my Silver Bullet tends to sound pretty good right up until distortion. But I generally don't like the sound of a distorting 2-bus, so as others have said, just listen closely for distortion artifacts. The metering is a good guide, but depending on source material, peaks can sneak through. Pay attention also to if you have something in the insert.
The SB sounds great when it's pushed to like 80-90%, too, so you don't have to slam it to 98% to get nice saturation.
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Post by shakermaker on Oct 10, 2020 18:44:46 GMT -6
I'm still learning how to use my void corp SB ... and not a mixing comment for OP but I got one of the most glorious mic tones I've ever gotten last night for accoustic/voice chain went RCA BX44 into Silver bullet (N > A) into audio scape LA2A into Dangerous AD+ into Apollo x16 AES.
HOT damn! haha, I love this thing as a pre amp too
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Post by drbill on Oct 10, 2020 19:48:35 GMT -6
YES!! The preamps are great too!
Hey, it seems there may be some confusion as to the gain staging in the Silver Bullet.
One thing to note, and a good place to start -- keep the Gain and Output knobs as a mirror image of each other to start. At least until you are familiar and want to break the rules. It's not really a "rule" per se, but it's where I always start, and it keeps wild gain staging in line. Especially on the second stage if you are cascading and using A>N or N>A. So....this is how you do it :
If your Gain is set to 9:00 - set the Output to 3:00. If your Gain is at 12:00 set your output to 12:00. If your Gain is at 7:00 set your output to 5:00. Etc..
Think "Mirror image". If the first gain is set to give you the DRIVE/SATURTION you want - YOU WILL NOT over drive the second stage (unless you are overdriving the signal coming into the Silver Bullet) - and you will essentially be passing unity gain to the second stage (same level as whatever you are inputting into the SB) - but with the desired saturation as set by the gain pot.
ALSO, it makes it easy to "bypass" by using the TRK/BYP switch and keep everything at unity so that extra gain is not fooling you as to the saturation levels. Hope that all makes sense. As they say, read the manual. It's worth the effort, trust me.....
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Post by drbill on Oct 10, 2020 19:54:27 GMT -6
HOT damn! haha, I love this thing as a pre amp too The Silver Bullet LOOOOVES Ribbons. Here's a single Samar VL373A, active stereo ribbon straight into Silver Bullet A mode then straight into the DAW. Beautiful..... soundcloud.com/mintelligence/lmix/s-mAaFM |
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Post by howie on Oct 11, 2020 0:57:53 GMT -6
HOT damn! haha, I love this thing as a pre amp too The Silver Bullet LOOOOVES Ribbons. Here's a single Samar VL373A, active stereo ribbon straight into Silver Bullet A mode then straight into the DAW. Beautiful..... soundcloud.com/mintelligence/lmix/s-mAaFMI have a modest recording setup (an interface, iMac, Silver Bullet - some instriuments - some pedals - and the Silver Bullet. I record my own stuff)
Question 2 (If I may) - for dr bill - On Out/Gain for the Silver Bullet: I generally use just one mic when recording voice or banjo - it's a Samar VL37A (active ribbon mic - not the stereo VL373A, you just mentioned). I seem to need to crank both output knobs 100% -/+ to achieve enough gain for this ribbon mic - I use A>N (or N>A) and Mic+ preamp. The gain knob is set 11-Noon. My Vocals are 8"-12" away from mic, and the banjo about 24" away. If I crank the gain further I would risk distortion with the Out knob turned up so high.
Does needing so much 'out' seem par for the course with the Silver Bullet for an active ribbon? The Silver Bullet works fine out cranked like this - just wonder if there is something I have not considered. thanks.
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Post by allbuttonmode on Oct 11, 2020 3:48:13 GMT -6
Thank you for your input, people. And thank you, drbill for chiming in. The light colour explanation puts my mind(ears) at ease. It was just what I was looking for. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 11, 2020 8:56:27 GMT -6
HOT damn! haha, I love this thing as a pre amp too The Silver Bullet LOOOOVES Ribbons. Here's a single Samar VL373A, active stereo ribbon straight into Silver Bullet A mode then straight into the DAW. Beautiful..... soundcloud.com/mintelligence/lmix/s-mAaFMWell if anyone would be the expert on the unit, it would be you!! Please feel free to keep talking it up . . . I don't have one. (yet) |
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Post by drbill on Oct 11, 2020 9:14:27 GMT -6
The Silver Bullet LOOOOVES Ribbons. Here's a single Samar VL373A, active stereo ribbon straight into Silver Bullet A mode then straight into the DAW. Beautiful..... soundcloud.com/mintelligence/lmix/s-mAaFMI have a modest recording setup (an interface, iMac, Silver Bullet - some instriuments - some pedals - and the Silver Bullet. I record my own stuff)
Question 2 (If I may) - for dr bill - On Out/Gain for the Silver Bullet: I generally use just one mic when recording voice or banjo - it's a Samar VL37A (active ribbon mic - not the stereo VL373A, you just mentioned). I seem to need to crank both output knobs 100% -/+ to achieve enough gain for this ribbon mic - I use A>N (or N>A) and Mic+ preamp. The gain knob is set 11-Noon. My Vocals are 8"-12" away from mic, and the banjo about 24" away. If I crank the gain further I would risk distortion with the Out knob turned up so high.
Does needing so much 'out' seem par for the course with the Silver Bullet for an active ribbon? The Silver Bullet works fine out cranked like this - just wonder if there is something I have not considered. thanks.
Any distortion that may occur if you push the mic too hard is a function of both the Gain and Output knobs in combination. Having the Output wide open, and the Gain turned up to an appropriate level - or sonics - in your case 11/12:00 is perfectly appropriate. Alternately, having the gain wide open and the output at 11/12:00 would be a much dirtier sound. Max output with the Gain turned up to an appropriate level is the cleanest setting you can get - which I presume is what you are after. From your description, I think you are OK. Of course, it all depends on how hot the output of the mic you're using is, and how loud the source is. When Cascading as you are, of course the gain structure becomes more interactive and potentially complex. But that's really the beauty of it. It sounds like you are in the zone and on the right path. Experimentation is pf course key. The types of tones I've gotten cascading the pre's as you have can be awesome - especially on drums for me, but they can also get quite saturated if you're not careful. IMO, super helpful for dirtier hip hop and certain types of alternate styled rock. Keep at it. You've got an excellent mic and pre. You should be able to achieve world class results!!! Cheers, bp |
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Post by drbill on Oct 11, 2020 9:17:12 GMT -6
. . . I don't have one. (yet) Whaaaaaat?!?!?!?!? Times a wasting Ward! Life is short. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 11, 2020 11:05:48 GMT -6
. . . I don't have one. (yet) Whaaaaaat?!?!?!?!? Times a wasting Ward! Life is short. You are a wise man, DB. I'll get it in the 2021 budget |
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Post by gwlee7 on Oct 11, 2020 16:36:28 GMT -6
Whaaaaaat?!?!?!?!? Times a wasting Ward! Life is short. You are a wise man, DB. I'll get it in the 2021 budget You mean I have something you do not? That’s a switch. |
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Post by teejay on Oct 12, 2020 10:13:24 GMT -6
You mean I have something you do not? That’s a switch. Cat's out of the bag. Won't be long now. You've got to learn to enjoy these small victories in quiet but joyous solitude. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 12, 2020 11:14:27 GMT -6
You mean I have something you do not? That’s a switch. Cat's out of the bag. Won't be long now. You've got to learn to enjoy these small victories in quiet but joyous solitude. Oh you guys, that's hilarious!! If you think I'm bad, you should see some other guys! LOL . . . I started typing names, but deleted them. But man, I've been in some spots where the addiction is truly out of control! And everything is wired up, accessible and works flawlessly. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 16:00:01 GMT -6
![]() Hi. Having had the SB for a little while now, I’m starting to find it indispensable. But I know I’m still deep in the honeymoon phase, and don’t fully trust myself around it. So, a question for you SB users here: When do you know you’ve saturated the mix too much? I know, as time passes - as well as mixes - I’ll (hopefully) recognise the signs, but right now, I just hear improvement. Usually when the lights turn pink, the signals p r e t t y hot, which sets off the alarm in my head. Help! (BTW: It's not on pink at all times, though. I just realised that wasn't too clear in my ramblings above) I don't really realize I'm saturating too much until I've had it set a way for a while and my ears adjust, then I bypass it to check. My experience was that, as with most things, a little goes a long way. When I had a loaner for a metal mix, the sweet spot was flashing the pink LEDS on every kick/snare hit as a benchmark, with louder bits of the song staying slightly more consistently pink. This was with the "N" mode. I can imagine it is possible to be more heavy handed with "lighter" material. |
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. Congrats on becoming a part of the SB tribe, and have fun with it and make great music! 
