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Post by longscale on Sept 25, 2020 22:28:48 GMT -6
Been playing around with match eq. I like the sounds it offers. I've been trying to learn from it. Trying on my own (without match EQ) to hit my reference sound samples. Been attempting EQ (hw) on the way in (tracking) and also using hw EQ insert or plugins on recorded tracks. I've not been doing that in the context of a mix. I'm only doing this on individual source tracks. Right now edge of breakup or slightly overdriven guitars is my primary focus. I've used ProQ3, and Ozone (Advanced - my trial runs out soon) for the EQ match that I then try to learn from. While I like ProQ3 as an EQ I'm either using it wrong for match, or I miss the Ozone Fine Tune controls. I like the sound of Ozone match eq overall better in no small part because of that feature/control.
Anybody mess with EQ matching and have any wisdom or experiences to share?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 26, 2020 0:23:16 GMT -6
Yep!
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 26, 2020 0:57:59 GMT -6
I use EQ matching all the time. It's pretty much my secret weapon for distorted guitar tones. Any time I hear an isolated tone I like, I can EQ match it and save it as a preset in a matter of seconds. If you do it right, you can occasionally get so close to the original tone that it's virtually indistinguishable. And even when it's not quite spot on, it still sounds damn good. A godsend if you work with amp sims a lot.
I also use it on the stereo bus to match other mixes, and on any other track where I have isolated reference material (i.e. a section of a song that's just vocals). You have to be a little more subtle doing this, but it's still something I find very useful.
Ozone is the best tool for the job, IME. I love Pro-Q, but its EQ matching isn't as fine-grain as I need it to be.
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Post by longscale on Sept 26, 2020 13:03:23 GMT -6
bluegrassdan I remember watching your Vintage Speaker Matching vid some time ago. I'm not sure what I liked better - the sound matching of the speaker, or the guitar playing. Nice work.
The issue I have with ProQ3 is that the match profile I apply to my source track wants to rip my head off (on the top end). Plus adding that much EQ also causes the track to flip the Over Lights in PT as well. I can go in and tweak some of the EQ points to help reduce that (or provide a better source sound!), but I miss the percentage Fine Tune type control where I can just dial the entire EQ matching down a bit to find a good middle ground. Ozone makes that easy. I'm gonna have to think hard about spending that sort of $$$ for more software (once my ozone demo runs out). I've been on a no more buying sw plugins kick lately....
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 26, 2020 17:58:55 GMT -6
For anyone interested, here's an example of what I typically do with guitar EQ matching.
First clip is a freshly-restrung vintage Les Paul -> Bogner Ecstasy (don't remember what cabinet/mics). Second clip is EQ matched, using a cheap Jaguar with dead strings.
Third clip is the same Jaguar, but no EQ matching (just trying to make an amp sim sound as good as I can).
https%3A//soundcloud.com/tkaitkai/guitar-eq-match
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 26, 2020 18:06:15 GMT -6
bluegrassdan I remember watching your Vintage Speaker Matching vid some time ago. I'm not sure what I liked better - the sound matching of the speaker, or the guitar playing. Nice work. The issue I have with ProQ3 is that the match profile I apply to my source track wants to rip my head off (on the top end). Plus adding that much EQ also causes the track to flip the Over Lights in PT as well. I can go in and tweak some of the EQ points to help reduce that (or provide a better source sound!), but I miss the percentage Fine Tune type control where I can just dial the entire EQ matching down a bit to find a good middle ground. Ozone makes that easy. I'm gonna have to think hard about spending that sort of $$$ for more software (once my ozone demo runs out). I've been on a no more buying sw plugins kick lately.... Two things. You can turn down the output gain in ProQ3 on the righthand side to prevent clipping. Also, you can highlight all of the EQ points and drag your curser to reduce their gain simultaneously. |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 26, 2020 18:37:57 GMT -6
I don't use plugins much, but this has me a bit intrigued - does it work on vocals?
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 26, 2020 19:27:41 GMT -6
I don't use plugins much, but this has me a bit intrigued - does it work on vocals? It can get a little tricky with vocals. If you do very precise matching with the amount set to 100% in Ozone, it can start to sound garbled/distorted. But you can lower the amount and set the smoothing higher (i.e. fewer EQ bands, lower boosts/cuts, wider bandwidth) and sometimes get interesting results. This can be really useful if you're just trying to get closer to the general EQ balance of an isolated vocal from a mixed/mastered song. On a related note, I'm pretty sure EQ matching is a major part of how most mic modeling software works. The difference is that the modeling mic serves as a known reference, so the results are better than if you were to try and apply a random EQ curve to whatever mic you're using. Of course there's probably some component modeling going on as well. |
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 26, 2020 19:52:44 GMT -6
Using consistent source material seems to be the key.
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Post by ragan on Sept 26, 2020 19:57:03 GMT -6
bluegrassdan I remember watching your Vintage Speaker Matching vid some time ago. I'm not sure what I liked better - the sound matching of the speaker, or the guitar playing. Nice work. The issue I have with ProQ3 is that the match profile I apply to my source track wants to rip my head off (on the top end). Plus adding that much EQ also causes the track to flip the Over Lights in PT as well. I can go in and tweak some of the EQ points to help reduce that (or provide a better source sound!), but I miss the percentage Fine Tune type control where I can just dial the entire EQ matching down a bit to find a good middle ground. Ozone makes that easy. I'm gonna have to think hard about spending that sort of $$$ for more software (once my ozone demo runs out). I've been on a no more buying sw plugins kick lately.... Set Pro-Q3 for level match (right next to the output trim) and no matter how much you cut or boost it’ll keep the output level the same. Also, select all nodes at once and turn the gain knob. It’ll boost/cut all the EQ points simultaneously. That way you can decide what magnitude of a match attempt you want. Maybe you just want it to nudge the track in the direction of the reference and not go all out trying to make them identical. And when it first does the match, it suggests the amount of nodes, with that slider you can reduce or increase the nodes. So maybe you want extreme matching (like 20 nodes) or maybe you want a gentle suggestion (like 3 nodes). It can be whatever you want it to be. |
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Post by longscale on Sept 26, 2020 20:17:37 GMT -6
Two things. You can turn down the output gain in ProQ3 on the righthand side to prevent clipping. Also, you can highlight all of the EQ points and drag your curser to reduce their gain simultaneously. Pure gold tip! I did not realize I could select all at once and drag them all. That is exactly what I needed. Thank you. This board is the best ever. If I take a good reference source (from a CD) and create a profile of that (save it) and apply it to my own recorded guitar parts I tend to like the match(ed) eq version much better. So I've been trying to figure out how to get closer to that sound on my own. It just seemed to me an opportunity to learn how to capture/produce a recorded sound I like better than what I'm currently getting. I figured I'd do the same thing on a mix someday too - in that case trying to learn what EQ moves I need to do in order to get a sound I like more (using the match EQ as the teacher if that makes any sense at all). I'm not against just using the match EQ, version but I wanted to also learn from it too. Thanks for the tips. Very much appreciate it. |
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Post by longscale on Sept 26, 2020 20:20:36 GMT -6
Thanks ragan - good tips all around. I can't wait to try them all out tonight.
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Post by superwack on Sept 26, 2020 20:38:16 GMT -6
In addition to all the great suggestions PRO-Q3 has a GAIN SCALE slider under the output knob that you can use to adjust all the bands/up and down at the same time (neat bonus over the grab and drag method is you can automate the slider if you wanted to)
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 26, 2020 21:37:09 GMT -6
That EQ has got to be the best plugin ever devised by man or beast.
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Post by ragan on Sept 26, 2020 21:54:22 GMT -6
My affection for FabFilter and their designs knows no bound.
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Post by yotonic on Sept 26, 2020 21:57:47 GMT -6
For anyone interested, here's an example of what I typically do with guitar EQ matching. First clip is a freshly-restrung vintage Les Paul -> Bogner Ecstasy (don't remember what cabinet/mics). Second clip is EQ matched, using a cheap Jaguar with dead strings. Third clip is the same Jaguar, but no EQ matching (just trying to make an amp sim sound as good as I can). https%3A//soundcloud.com/tkaitkai/guitar-eq-matchReally digging what happened with the EQ matching on the Jaguar. It reminds me of the old days of sampling & sound design. Super cool... |
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 26, 2020 23:33:48 GMT -6
Really digging what happened with the EQ matching on the Jaguar. It reminds me of the old days of sampling & sound design. Super cool... Thanks friend! It's not identical by any means, but definitely close enough to where I've quelled the desire to shell out for a $4000 amp. Also, huge fan of the sampling/sound design crowd. I've borrowed loads of ideas from them, like liberal use of bitcrushers + unusual distortion/pitch shifting FX, chopping things up and pasting them in weird rhythmic sequences, etc. |
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Post by theshea on Sept 29, 2020 2:40:39 GMT -6
i recorded two different drumsessions for a band a few months apart. i used the same mics, preamps and so on but it did sound different. you know the problems: bit different tuning, more worn drumheads, mics not in the exact same spot ...
in this case i used matching eq and it got the drums to sound very very close. great helper that plugin and it was logic‘s stock match eq plugin.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 9:43:23 GMT -6
I've only done it once, and it was on a vocal. I had tracked the song, then did a mix and it wasn't until then that the singer wanted to redo one verse. I didn't write any of my tracking settings down, only had a vague recollection. It was obvious that the one verse sounded different, so I did the EQ match with ProQ and it worked great. I was pretty conservative with it, so solo'd you could still tell they are slightly off, but you can't tell in context at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 9:46:02 GMT -6
For anyone interested, here's an example of what I typically do with guitar EQ matching. First clip is a freshly-restrung vintage Les Paul -> Bogner Ecstasy (don't remember what cabinet/mics). Second clip is EQ matched, using a cheap Jaguar with dead strings. Third clip is the same Jaguar, but no EQ matching (just trying to make an amp sim sound as good as I can). https%3A//soundcloud.com/tkaitkai/guitar-eq-matchThis is fucking cool. I feel like maybe the jag clip has a hair more low-end, but that's insanely close. That riff is sweet too. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 29, 2020 12:13:19 GMT -6
This is fucking cool. I feel like maybe the jag clip has a hair more low-end, but that's insanely close. That riff is sweet too. Hey thanks so much!! Yeah, I can definitely hear a little more of a lower mid/bass emphasis. I think the distortion characteristics are slightly different too, but that probably has more to do with the amp sim itself. The cool thing is you can save the EQ curve as an IR and then play around with different amp sims pre-IR. I've gotten some really cool tones that way. Super powerful tools we have these days! |
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