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Post by FAB on Jul 15, 2020 14:09:58 GMT -6
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Post by Chad on Jul 15, 2020 14:31:10 GMT -6
First of all, nice guitar work! :-)
Secondly... All are really close, and on this performance, any of these would be perfect.
I'm going to use the last number in each file name.
I'm thinking this is what they were:
#1: FAB 87
#2: Neumann U87 REV 20
#3: Neumann U87 REV 16
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Post by FAB on Jul 15, 2020 14:36:08 GMT -6
Thanks for that. We will reveal the answers after a few weeks. I should have asked this initially in the post - did you have a favourite order?
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Post by Chad on Jul 15, 2020 14:47:24 GMT -6
Thanks for that. We will reveal the answers after a few weeks. I should have asked this initially in the post - did you have a favourite order? My favorite would depend upon context. If have to answer right now... If it's just the guitar being featured by itself, I would lean toward #3 for the more forward upper mids. Hearing this same shootout on a male tenor vocal would reveal more of what I'm looking for in a U87. :-) (I'm assuming that *may* be your next shootout.)
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Post by Ward on Jul 15, 2020 19:08:18 GMT -6
Nsming them and in order of preference. . . 2. Neumann Rev 15-16 3. Fab 87 1. Neumann Rev 20
If memory doesn't fail me, the 20 revision had the crunchy top end and the 15-16 range was smoother, which is what you are probably trying to emulate and coming very close to.
Edit: stupid typos
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Post by christopher on Jul 15, 2020 19:32:27 GMT -6
First listen.. 1 sounded really sweet. 2 instantly reminded me of 87 w/ tight lows, mellow top 3 sounded like the first, except a little more controlled.
I think 3 was my fav I could enjoy that all day, 1 was right there too could probably swap them and not notice, 2 works great as a starting point where you can take it anywhere. 2 might be the smartest if you have some nice preamps/EQ
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Post by FAB on Jul 20, 2020 9:08:20 GMT -6
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Post by Chad on Jul 20, 2020 11:58:08 GMT -6
Here's some female vocal. Mics in cardiod, direct no fx. Guess which is the FAB, Rev 16 and Rev 20 Neumann and give us your preferred order. Hi FAB, Did you keep the mics in the same order this time? (Mic 1 / Mic 2 / Mic 3 = Same on Guitar as well as Vox?) Chad
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Post by FAB on Jul 20, 2020 12:50:38 GMT -6
Hi Chad No different order this time - this is a photo showing the set up we used to record everything with the 2 Neumanns facing each other and the FAB to one side.
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Post by FAB on Jul 21, 2020 6:25:15 GMT -6
Another photo showing the set up.
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Post by christopher on Jul 21, 2020 10:23:47 GMT -6
Great samples and nice mics. These are all very close in the vocal sample. Trying to AB it’s easier to hear similarities. If you told me they were all the same sample, I wouldn’t be surprised.
1 was my fav, has that live in the studio BBC style feel. Full body roundness and a tiny little more ambience than the others. It might be catching a surface better than the others.
2 I feel like it has tiny more detail and mouth sounds, like when a mic is closer to the chin. Seems to be a teeny bit less round in the lows, but that might be because the capsule is reacting more from the highs.
3 I really liked this one. It feels a little darker and full. The highs don’t feel so much as detailed as 2, so I’d expect the capsule to be older. Or it could the transformer is a beast, in a good way... feels it might have a tiny more proximity effect going on.
As far as which is which, I could take a guess but I don’t know that it matters. If I heard any of them and wanted to match them I’d alter the position a little or do a little EQ
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Post by FAB on Aug 20, 2020 7:36:24 GMT -6
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Post by drumsound on Aug 23, 2020 19:42:48 GMT -6
These are all interesting. On acoustic I preferred 2, on the vocal probably 3, and on spanish guitar 3 jumped out to me.
I was kind of surprised that the guitar wasn't a Taylor...
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Post by Ward on Aug 24, 2020 6:11:09 GMT -6
Dear FAB By prolonging these 'tests' or contests with nothing but a reveal at the end of a long process, you tend to lose interest. A fun little comparison is great, but we can't be there to listen to the source material in the natural and thus have no baseline to work from. All the comparisons make little difference after a while. A short comparison with a quick reveal after a couple of replies would be useful. But only in a very limited way. All of us already know that a good pre 1987 U87i is the 'ok-est' overall microphone in the world, totally suck-proof. You're providing a less expensive competitor in the 'ok-est' category. Not something like the best EAL M251 clone in the world. So up to you how you interact in this forum or build attention but at this point, you've lost some interest. And this is just friendly advice. From a gear evangelist. Kindest regards Ward
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Post by FAB on Aug 25, 2020 5:59:51 GMT -6
Thanks for your comments Ward it's much appreciated. We are going to reveal the answers to the 3 samples on Friday. The comments so far have been helpful and thanks to everyone who posted.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 25, 2020 9:22:35 GMT -6
These are all interesting. On acoustic I preferred 2, on the vocal probably 3, and on spanish guitar 3 jumped out to me. I was kind of surprised that the guitar wasn't a Taylor... So often that is the case with these shoot outs. I often wonder if we would be better off if clone mfg. would give us a couple of samples of their wares through more than one of their units so we could get a better idea of their sonic goals and how consistent they are. I mean no disrespect, it’s just over the years I learned that the sample many manufacturers brought around sure were different sounding from random samples pulled from what shipped.
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Post by christopher on Aug 25, 2020 18:28:23 GMT -6
I’m not experienced enough to know the intimate details of different revisions, so that makes it just a guess. I could theorize the newest mic should have the most dynamics to the top end, since the capsule is new. So I’d guess 1 is the clone, 2 is the oldest 87, 3 is the newer 87. Or I might say 1+3 are u87s because they sound similar and 2 is sort of different. Really I just want to say 2 was my favorite for this example, it has something dreamy going on that I like. 1+3 sound really good though, so it’s kind of tough.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 25, 2020 22:41:51 GMT -6
These are all interesting. On acoustic I preferred 2, on the vocal probably 3, and on spanish guitar 3 jumped out to me. I was kind of surprised that the guitar wasn't a Taylor... So often that is the case with these shoot outs. I often wonder if we would be better off if clone mfg. would give us a couple of samples of their wares through more than one of their units so we could get a better idea of their sonic goals and how consistent they are. I mean no disrespect, it’s just over the years I learned that the sample many manufacturers brought around sure were different sounding from random samples pulled from what shipped. And there's also the whole "horses for courses" situation. A mic that sounds good on vocal A might should like shit on guitar A.
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Post by Ward on Aug 26, 2020 7:23:37 GMT -6
I’m not experienced enough to know the intimate details of different revisions, so that makes it just a guess. I could theorize the newest mic should have the most dynamics to the top end, since the capsule is new. So I’d guess 1 is the clone, 2 is the oldest 87, 3 is the newer 87. Or I might say 1+3 are u87s because they sound similar and 2 is sort of different. Really I just want to say 2 was my favorite for this example, it has something dreamy going on that I like. 1+3 sound really good though, so it’s kind of tough. The term 'modern' referring to sound, is a moving target anyhow. In the 90s, the dull nature of an AKG C414ULS was considered modern, Then it had to be flat, then overly hyped, then back to flat, now mid-forward and/or hyped. What I can suggest is to try and build a collection of non-trendy tried-and-true microphones that take EQ and compression very well. Like the Neumann U87i and the U87ai (with the daughter board?) maybe, but also KM84s and 85s and certain 414s, and certain 421s . . . and 441s in general. And a certain U47 reproduction would really be great, or a certain ELA M251 would also be great. But I don't wish to further derail the thread. With regards to FAB's 87, if they hit everything a vintage U87 does and do so at a great price point, them bully to ya! (that's a cheer I picked up in the UK). There are some fantastic boutique microphones on the market now from Heiserman and mics Beeznees, and it would be just fab if FAB's 87 clone was also amongst that group. We want solid, nothing 'weird', if you follow me.
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Post by FAB on Aug 28, 2020 6:18:19 GMT -6
Firstly we just want to thank everyone for their contributions so far it’s much appreciated.
Ok here’s the reveal:-
87 test gtr 4 card 1 = FAB 87
87 test gtr 4 card 2 = Neumann U87 rev 16
87 test gtr 4 card 3 = Neumann U87 rev 20
Female Voc Cardiod 1 = Neumann U87 rev 20
Female Voc Cardiod 2 = FAB 87
Female Voc Cardiod 3 = Neumann U87 rev 16
Spanish Gtr Cardiod 1 = Neumann U87 rev 16
Spanish Gtr Cardiod 2 = Neumann U87 rev 20
Spanish Gtr Cardiod 3 = FAB 87
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Post by Ward on Aug 28, 2020 6:48:53 GMT -6
I 'm not surprised I guessed the U87 rev 16 correctly, I work with one several times a week. LOL.
Good job making your Fab87 so close to the latter revision U87. That's a feat!
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