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Post by raddistribution on Jun 1, 2020 6:40:47 GMT -6
Avantone Pro is proud to announce availability of Kick — an aptly-named sub-frequency kick drum microphone that effectively brings back to life a well-known extinct example by utilising the affordable high-quality audio products producer’s own reproduction ‘white cone’ low-frequency driver to capture lower frequencies than a standard dynamic microphone, giving kick drum sounds that still-sought-after subsonic signature — as of June 1… While using a speaker as a low-frequency capture microphone is nothing new — after all, The Beatles used this technique on their chart-topping ‘Paperback Writer’ way back in May 1966, watching people dangling a speaker from a makeshift stand, rewiring a monitor driver, or hot-wiring a combo amp to try and capture those lows is far from a pretty experience with results not necessarily assured, Kick ably addresses this by bringing the boom from appropriate instruments out to the forefront, making large-sounding sources sound massive. Moreover, it neatly does so with a sub-frequency microphone that utilises its well-known reproduction ‘white cone’ low-frequency driver — not just any driver, though... the driver! Avantone Pro’s AV-10 MLF low-frequency replacement driver used in its CLA-10 recreation of an iconic studio reference monitoring mainstay — and compatible with the Japanese original — is also at the beating heart of Kick. Indeed, it has a single continuous press-formed cone to match that classic sound and allows a much higher level of quality control and consistency during the manufacturing process as well as delivering strong bass reproduction. In Kick’s case, the AV-10 MLF’s distinctive 18cm cone acts as a microphone element. The microphone itself is of a moving coil dynamic type, with a 50Hz to 2kHz frequency response, 6.3 Ω output impedance, and figure-eight pattern, plus a male XLR connector. All are housed in a birch plywood drum shell with a 10-inch mesh drum head. Having said all that, to then mount Kick on a standard mic stand simply would not do the job justice — which is exactly why Avantone Pro provides a stage- ready, double-braced drum stand. Studio-bound or on the road, the comprehensive Kick package is really ready to deliver! Kick is available Mid June at $349.00 USD. TECH SPECS: Type: Moving Coil Dynamic Frequency Response: 50Hz-2,000Hz Output Impedance: 6.3 Ω Pattern: Figure 8 Element: AV10-MLF 18cm cone Connector: Male XLR Shell: Birch Ply Drum head: Mesh 10” Size: 11.375” W; 11.375” H; 5.5” D (without stand) Weight: 3.1kg; 6.8Lbs (without stand) / 4.6kg;10.1 lbs (with stand) |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 1, 2020 7:16:50 GMT -6
Great idea Seth! If I was tracking live drums I'd want one.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014 
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Post by ericn on Jun 1, 2020 8:21:07 GMT -6
The drive from the original Mixcube was always the standard for DIY sub-kicks so this makes sense.
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Post by raddistribution on Jun 1, 2020 8:45:49 GMT -6
The drive from the original Mixcube was always the standard for DIY sub-kicks so this makes sense. this uses the cla10 lf driver not the mix cube driver. the extra 1.25" of diameter and excursion from the larger and more pliable speaker surround makes a big difference between the two when in comes to easily picking up really low frequencies. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 1, 2020 15:41:28 GMT -6
Picking up where Yamaha left off when they stopped selling the sub-kick. Cool.
I never got on with these things myself. Even made my own with an NS-10 driver thinking it would make a cool addition to my “mics”
Problem is - those drivers only go so low, so you work the speaker in reverse and you’re only going to get the opposite of how low a “10” speaker can reproduce.
I’ve tracked a few drum sessions using one and realized come mix time it wasn’t really a very usable channel for me. Something like a punchy inside mic combined with a FET47 outside makes WAY more sense to me.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 1, 2020 16:27:36 GMT -6
Looks cool.
I've also always liked the water cooler water bottle with an sm57 suspended inside of it sitting in from of the kick. Works well actually haha
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Post by svart on Jun 1, 2020 16:33:11 GMT -6
Picking up where Yamaha left off when they stopped selling the sub-kick. Cool. I never got on with these things myself. Even made my own with an NS-10 driver thinking it would make a cool addition to my “mics” Problem is - those drivers only go so low, so you work the speaker in reverse and you’re only going to get the opposite of how low a “10” speaker can reproduce. I’ve tracked a few drum sessions using one and realized come mix time it wasn’t really a very usable channel for me. Something like a punchy inside mic combined with a FET47 outside makes WAY more sense to me. You low pass it and just boost the hell out of it. It's more of adding a "round" thump than extra low end filling in something missing. More dynamics than frequencies I guess. |
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Post by stormymondays on Jun 1, 2020 16:40:11 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Jun 2, 2020 8:35:54 GMT -6
Awesome news.
I hope it’s easier to get than a reply is from you, Seth.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 2, 2020 8:48:36 GMT -6
Can we get the stand separately?
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Post by raddistribution on Jun 2, 2020 13:11:05 GMT -6
Can we get the stand separately? possibly in the future |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 2, 2020 15:29:09 GMT -6
Can we get the stand separately? You could easily modify a snare stand for sure! |
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Post by mulmany on Jun 2, 2020 15:32:08 GMT -6
Can we get the stand separately? You could easily modify a snare stand for sure! It looked shorter...but that is a good idea... I will try out a snare stand for mine. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 2, 2020 19:42:18 GMT -6
Has something like this been used on recordings made by singer/songwriters like Ryan Adams, Jason Isbell, Mark Knopfler or Lyle Lovette ?
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 3, 2020 6:08:30 GMT -6
Has something like this been used on recordings made by singer/songwriters like Ryan Adams, Jason Isbell, Mark Knopfler or Lyle Lovette ? I’d venture to say no. Isbel’s engineers are decidedly old school - minimal mics on those kits. Ryan has gone through so many producers and engineers it’s sort of hard to say but drums on his records don’t generally sound like they have a sub kick going. Ethan Johns and Glyn generally have an old school D12 or D20 on kick from what I’ve seen and read. Can’t really speak for Tom Schick. His last engineer Charlie didn’t seem to have anything other than the normal mics from any pictures I’d seen on Instagram and the like. No clue on Knopfler or Lyle, but that sound doesn’t seem to suit their productions. Questlove usually has one on his Kick drum for the live taping of The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, but you j the studio for The Roots, D’angelo, and Common, his engineer uses a D12 and a FET47. Aaron Sterling had one on his kick drum for the last 2 John Mayer tours, haven’t seen one on his tracking setups though. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 3, 2020 6:33:19 GMT -6
Has something like this been used on recordings made by singer/songwriters like Ryan Adams, Jason Isbell, Mark Knopfler or Lyle Lovette ? I’d venture to say no. Isbel’s engineers are decidedly old school - minimal mics on those kits. Ryan has gone through so many producers and engineers it’s sort of hard to say but drums on his records don’t generally sound like they have a sub kick going. Ethan Johns and Glyn generally have an old school D12 or D20 on kick from what I’ve seen and read. Can’t really speak for Tom Schick. His last engineer Charlie didn’t seem to have anything other than the normal mics from any pictures I’d seen on Instagram and the like. No clue on Knopfler or Lyle, but that sound doesn’t seem to suit their productions. Questlove usually has one on his Kick drum for the live taping of The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, but you j the studio for The Roots, D’angelo, and Common, his engineer uses a D12 and a FET47. Aaron Sterling had one on his kick drum for the last 2 John Mayer tours, haven’t seen one on his tracking setups though. Everyone's individual experiences and findings are different . . . but IMHE the D12 is lovely in a sparse mix but needs considerable EQing in a dense mix, at which point, I pick something else with more built in point and 350 notching. And I don't know what it says about the Avantone KICK but a good Neumann FET47 blows the doors off a Yamaha Subkick. But I like Seth and know he only puts out stuff he believes in, so I'm counting on the KICK being an improvement over the Sub-kick. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 3, 2020 8:12:00 GMT -6
Thanks Jeremy, much appreciated.
Seth is extremely knowledgable and he really cares about what he designs and markets. He's helped me on many occasions and I trust his recommendations.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 3, 2020 8:27:25 GMT -6
This looks almost exactly like the one I built. You can check it out at dantonewac.blogpot.com if anyone cares, I made a post about it. There's pictures and sound clips, I think.
I used an old Ludwig snare stand, and a cheap 8" tom. The speaker I used was an MCM Electronics woofer with a soft surround. Having a softer surround will allow the cone to resonate more freely, which is desirable in this application. I'm not sure if the "quality" of the speaker really seems to matter that much, but yes they all sound different in subtle ways.
I like it, I use it. It doesn't work for everything but if you want that big subby low end on your drums it will do it. I've been using it lately as my second mic. Before that I was using a Beyer M88TG outside the kick as the second mic.
Obviously you don't turn it up a lot in the mix, or you will destroy your mix and your headroom.
I don't think it's "Necessary" at all but it's useful. A "regular" kick out microphone is probably a lot more versatile.
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Post by raddistribution on Jun 3, 2020 10:09:41 GMT -6
And I don't know what it says about the Avantone KICK but a good Neumann FET47 blows the doors off a Yamaha Subkick. I tend to agree, a good fet47 works MUCH better as an all rounder "if you had only one mic kind of situation." The KICK style of mic is kinda of like a pair of mixcubes... in no way would i suggest it being your main kick mic just like i wouldn't suggest a mix cube being your main set of monitors. Where this style of mic shines is when using a good inside the shell mic AND blending in the KICK style mic. Both blended together create a sound that you cant really get from either on their own. |
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Post by Guitar on Jun 3, 2020 10:21:13 GMT -6
If you have enough kick in your room mic, and the room mic is the main mic, than yes you can use the subkick as the only kick mic to reinforce the lows.
This is a style of miking that I use sometimes. One room mic setup, and one kick mic. You can get it done in two channels. Cool sound for some things.
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