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Post by kcatthedog on May 12, 2020 8:21:58 GMT -6
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Post by theshea on May 12, 2020 9:05:28 GMT -6
Tetris anyone?
... looks like totally aimed at electronic pop music production for knobs ...
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Post by kcatthedog on May 12, 2020 9:09:01 GMT -6
True but some plug ins ( eq, etc.) have been updated too
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Post by Johnkenn on May 12, 2020 10:15:23 GMT -6
The cell stuff is something I’d like to play with. Now I can sound more like everyone else.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 12, 2020 10:40:50 GMT -6
Have only seen the very beginning so far, but Josh is great. I actually bought my two Stam pieces from him. Poor guy, though: his eyes look rough in that video! Pink eye? Covid? Allergies? I hope he's taking care of himself and getting some rest. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 12, 2020 11:02:01 GMT -6
This is mostly over my head.
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Post by mikec on May 12, 2020 11:37:14 GMT -6
Having Logic remote on the iPhone is pretty cool. I like to use the remote app frequently when tracking.
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Post by howie on May 12, 2020 11:47:09 GMT -6
I peeked: Unbelievable complexity of rhythm blends to choose from a zillion loops, beats, and sampled instruments at your finger tips - set to a quantized grid - with even random variations thrown in if you desire - create a wall of sound in minutes.
Alas, I'll stick to sort of getting my banjo and guitar in tune and sort of hitting close to the the beat of a drummer track.
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Post by mrholmes on May 12, 2020 12:10:21 GMT -6
I don't need the most of this.... and it gets even faster and faster, I want to slow down....
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Post by popmann on May 12, 2020 12:51:21 GMT -6
Wow--Logic made "more for hip hop and electronica producers"? LOL. Because before it catered to...?
Bus compensation fixed? No?
Certainly they've given me the ability to disable the "auto record enabled selected track"? Which the root cause of t he dreaded "single core bug" (shitty feature, not bug) No?
They now allow you to map third party drum libraries easily to the Logic Drummer....oh wait...they don't? Good thing I have a script that works.
Now EDM folks don't have to buy Ableton Live!!
Hard pass.
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Post by geoff738 on May 12, 2020 14:38:14 GMT -6
Bus compensation fixed? No? Can you tell me more about this? Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by popmann on May 12, 2020 18:18:30 GMT -6
Bus compensation fixed? No? Can you tell me more about this? Cheers, Geoff If you disable a plug in on a bus anywhere, it still compensates for it...so everything you record is permanently timestamped incorrectly. So, the functional workaround is that you either don't keep disabled plug ins in any kind of template...or you use ones that have an internal bypass (which is very few of the ones I use FWIW). In a way, you can I guess call it a lack of a plug in disable...but, I wouldn't because it works as you'd expect when the plug in is on a track. In retrospect it's why they have that (IMO weird) option to NOT compensate for busses--which I guess is the OTHER option you have--you could select that during tracking and just never enable anything on a bus that is latent. Then enable it for mixing....but, I'm just so used to having busses set up with my go to plug ins on them disabled--so I can just enable and adjust as needed...that was the root of my wanting to throw the MacBook out a window. The not being able to disable the "rec enable select track" is maddening too--and there's no option. Just the jacked up workaround to have a dummy track at the top of the project to rest the focus on with no inputs and outputs--so that then the whole project spreads (well IMO) evenly over the cores. I'm OCD about how the DAW's number one priority should be maintaining the multitrack timeline NO MATTER WHAT...I've been burned so many times over the years first by MIDI software...then by those same apps turned into DAWs...yet, I didn't test LogicX when I switched a few years ago...and it burned me. It does a good job as long as you fully understand this novel way it handles the bus compensation and use the app that way. IMO, apps shouldn't allow you to do things that throw the compensation engine. Let alone it being simply disabling some plug ins with is something I've done in multiple DAW templates for YEARS. |
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Post by jampa on May 12, 2020 18:59:13 GMT -6
Do buses created in the mixer automatically show up in the arrange screen? If you reposition them in the mixer do they update their position in the arrange screen?
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 12, 2020 19:45:24 GMT -6
Popmann said, " The not being able to disable the "rec enable select track" is maddening too--and there's no option. Just the jacked up workaround to have a dummy track at the top of the project to rest the focus on with no inputs and outputs--so that then the whole project spreads (well IMO) evenly over the cores"
I don't fully understand this. I know sometimes a track is record enabled though I didn't enable it, so I click it off. I didn't realize this could affect the spread of duty to the cores.
* I have never set anything in my life to automatically update, but I turned on Logic tonight and it was updated. WTF?
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Post by popmann on May 12, 2020 21:03:13 GMT -6
You can't click it off. If you select a track, it IS record enabled. Specifying the little R is just so that you can record enable multiple channels.
What happens when you select a track....and it record enables it (again-no way to defeat this), it allocates to ONE core:
-all the plug ins on that track (including a virtual instrument if it's an instrument track)
-if you have that track sent to auxes, all the plug ins on those auxes
-if the track goes through a sub bus, all the plug ins on that sub buss
-all plug ins on the master bus
When you click another track, it completely reallocates the project to do the above for it's routing.
The "dummy track" is a track you set up with NO input...NO output...NO plug ins...so that you rest the focus on that-and it will spread the load of everything in the project over all available cores. It doesn't HAVE to be at the top of the project. I just think that made the most sense for me as there's "always a top".
Other DAWs like Cubase do the "rec enable selected"--but they give you an option to disable that if you're like me and would MUCH rather manually record enable. I can't tell you how many things I recorded over in LPX because I selected some other track to make an adjustment, hit record, and that OTHER track is now recording instead of what I was working on...
Do keep in mind that this is only in the project window--I think you can select and browse in the mixer all you want without this allocation of cores. Thus when I mixed--100% park the focus on the dummy...and use the mixer window.
Having seen your disabled latent UAD plug ins on busses in your template, you should probably make sure you understand the other one, too. This core allocation thing is just annoying...the bus compensation is responsible for permanently incorrectly timestamping your recorded overdubs.
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Post by popmann on May 13, 2020 17:11:37 GMT -6
I want to clarify--that the reason I post is information. Engineering (audio or otherwise) is about working within whatever spec to get the job done. This is just information that once you KNOW it--you can fully use Logic. I do think Apple should document these things better...but, they're not alone--I'm still finding things out about how they've revamped the Cubase engine with this ASIO Guard stuff...
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Post by the other mark williams on May 13, 2020 17:43:20 GMT -6
Popmann said, " The not being able to disable the "rec enable select track" is maddening too--and there's no option. Just the jacked up workaround to have a dummy track at the top of the project to rest the focus on with no inputs and outputs--so that then the whole project spreads (well IMO) evenly over the cores"
I don't fully understand this. I know sometimes a track is record enabled though I didn't enable it, so I click it off. I didn't realize this could affect the spread of duty to the cores. * I have never set anything in my life to automatically update, but I turned on Logic tonight and it was updated. WTF? This is probably what's going on with your updates, Martin John Butler . Check the pic I've attached. Most likely you at some point clicked "yes, I'd like you [Mac] to automatically check for updates" without necessarily realizing it. Just uncheck all that stuff, and you should be good to go.   EDIT: I can't get the freaking "Insert Image" function to work. Just click on the attachment below, Martin, and it'll show you what I mean. ![]()  |
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Post by wiz on May 13, 2020 19:18:02 GMT -6
You can't click it off. If you select a track, it IS record enabled. Specifying the little R is just so that you can record enable multiple channels. What happens when you select a track....and it record enables it (again-no way to defeat this), it allocates to ONE core: -all the plug ins on that track (including a virtual instrument if it's an instrument track) -if you have that track sent to auxes, all the plug ins on those auxes -if the track goes through a sub bus, all the plug ins on that sub buss -all plug ins on the master bus When you click another track, it completely reallocates the project to do the above for it's routing. The "dummy track" is a track you set up with NO input...NO output...NO plug ins...so that you rest the focus on that-and it will spread the load of everything in the project over all available cores. It doesn't HAVE to be at the top of the project. I just think that made the most sense for me as there's "always a top". Other DAWs like Cubase do the "rec enable selected"--but they give you an option to disable that if you're like me and would MUCH rather manually record enable. I can't tell you how many things I recorded over in LPX because I selected some other track to make an adjustment, hit record, and that OTHER track is now recording instead of what I was working on... Do keep in mind that this is only in the project window--I think you can select and browse in the mixer all you want without this allocation of cores. Thus when I mixed--100% park the focus on the dummy...and use the mixer window. Having seen your disabled latent UAD plug ins on busses in your template, you should probably make sure you understand the other one, too. This core allocation thing is just annoying...the bus compensation is responsible for permanently incorrectly timestamping your recorded overdubs. Can you explain the incorrectly time stamping overdubs please? I run all the tracks to a stereo buss, that has two UAD plugs inserted (SSL COMP and ATR102) if I record from that start of the project, are the overdubs incorrectly time stamped, and what effect does this have long term? Thanks Jamie cheers Wiz |
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Post by popmann on May 13, 2020 20:37:03 GMT -6
It means nothing you record with those disabled plug ins on a buss will EVER play back at the point in time you played it.
It's always easiest to visualize it in exponentially larger values than it IS...if those UAD plug ins that are disabled (and again they have to be disabled for this to effect you) take 1 second to process, everything you record WILL be placed and timestamped 1 second wrong on the timeline. In reality, it might be 10ms. Does the Greg Wells Mixcentric need 70ms? That's a lovely master bus processor. I would think nothing of putting that on the master of my template disabled. And everything I record will have 70ms of error in their placement on the timeline. And if I say open a VI, it will be super latent...and I'll think 64samples is the ONLY playable buffer--because it's 64samples PLUS 70ms. Which is (without doing them math) probably more latency than a 1024 buffer without the miscalculated plug in latency compensation.
Of course--I'm going to say again--if you ENABLE them on the buss...it compensates as well as most DAWs do. OR if they're disabled on a track. Both of those work fine--you just can't have a disabled plug in on the bus at any point during tracking.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 13, 2020 21:13:47 GMT -6
It means nothing you record with those disabled plug ins on a buss will EVER play back at the point in time you played it. It's always easiest to visualize it in exponentially larger values than it IS...if those UAD plug ins that are disabled (and again they have to be disabled for this to effect you) take 1 second to process, everything you record WILL be placed and timestamped 1 second wrong on the timeline. In reality, it might be 10ms. Does the Greg Wells Mixcentric need 70ms? That's a lovely master bus processor. I would think nothing of putting that on the master of my template disabled. And everything I record will have 70ms of error in their placement on the timeline. And if I say open a VI, it will be super latent...and I'll think 64samples is the ONLY playable buffer--because it's 64samples PLUS 70ms. Which is (without doing them math) probably more latency than a 1024 buffer without the miscalculated plug in latency compensation. Of course--I'm going to say again--if you ENABLE them on the buss...it compensates as well as most DAWs do. OR if they're disabled on a track. Both of those work fine--you just can't have a disabled plug in on the bus at any point during tracking. I need to check this out with my own tests. I'm not saying I disbelieve you, Jamie, I just haven't run into this as a problem. I'm not sure: maybe I haven't been using latency-inducing plugins on a bus while tracking? Or maybe they're just-low-enough latency to not cause an issue for me with my kind of tracking? And are you saying that the problem disappears if using "bypass" within a plugin itself (when offered)? And have you found the 'Recording Delay' parameter to affect this at all? I mean, if what you're describing is true, and you knew you were going to always use a 70ms-latency-inducing plugin on a bus, you could theoretically just compensate for that in the 'Recording Delay' parameter under Audio > Devices, could you not? Just set it at a 70ms offset and all should be well, no? |
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Post by popmann on May 13, 2020 21:41:49 GMT -6
First: yes if the plug in has an internal bypass, all is good. While sure--I mean yes--what you're describing with a manual offset would work RIGHT THERE...and as soon as you ENABLED the plug in, it would be wrong in the other direction, so you'd have to continually test and update...it would be far easier to you know--just remove the plug in on a buss instead of disabling it.  The root of it is that Logic compensates for a (again BUS ONLY) plug in 100% of the time. As long as the signal passes through the third party code...all is well. If you disable the plug in in Logic's UI, it routes the signal around the DSP so it doesn't TAKE 70ms to process, but still compensates 70ms. If all the plug ins on the buss are disabled, Logic has a unique setting to deal with this: there's an option to not compensate for busses at all(the selection is "tracks only" or "tracks and busses"). But, then again--once you enable something latent...it's all pooched. Hindsight being 20/20...I read that in the manual and thought "what kind of whacked out situation do you NOT want the busses compensated for?"--and should have asked some Logic gurus for an explanation. They all verified that "oh yeah--you can't do THAT"... So I'm still on team "take them out of your template and make "track presets" for the busses like "DrumBus_Rock"..."MasterBus_NeveLoud" and just recall those as you want to apply bus processing". Or just insert plug ins as you want to apply processing and never disable them. |
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Post by the other mark williams on May 13, 2020 22:34:10 GMT -6
First: yes if the plug in has an internal bypass, all is good. While sure--I mean yes--what you're describing with a manual offset would work RIGHT THERE...and as soon as you ENABLED the plug in, it would be wrong in the other direction, so you'd have to continually test and update...it would be far easier to you know--just remove the plug in on a buss instead of disabling it. The root of it is that Logic compensates for a (again BUS ONLY) plug in 100% of the time. As long as the signal passes through the third party code...all is well. If you disable the plug in in Logic's UI, it routes the signal around the DSP so it doesn't TAKE 70ms to process, but still compensates 70ms. If all the plug ins on the buss are disabled, Logic has a unique setting to deal with this: there's an option to not compensate for busses at all(the selection is "tracks only" or "tracks and busses"). But, then again--once you enable something latent...it's all pooched. Hindsight being 20/20...I read that in the manual and thought "what kind of whacked out situation do you NOT want the busses compensated for?"--and should have asked some Logic gurus for an explanation. They all verified that "oh yeah--you can't do THAT"... So I'm still on team "take them out of your template and make "track presets" for the busses like "DrumBus_Rock"..."MasterBus_NeveLoud" and just recall those as you want to apply bus processing". Or just insert plug ins as you want to apply processing and never disable them. Gotcha. Thanks for that. In my "guitar composition"-type template, I don't have anything on busses. In my "mix live stuff"-type template, I have numerous things on busses, but I'm not tracking anything on a project when I use a template like that. I have numerous other types of templates I would need to check, though. The most likely problem candidates for me would be things like reverbs or delays on Aux busses. I'm not sticking a latency-inducing plugin on my Master bus while tracking. And I'm assuming what you're describing still happens when hitting the "Low Latency Mode" button on the transport, as that's just bypassing everything above a user-set limit? |
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Post by wiz on May 13, 2020 22:39:22 GMT -6
I have noticed a large timing disceprepancy like you describe IF I don't enable LOW LATENCY MONITORING>.. if I do it seems fine... (Low latency bypasses any plugs with higher latency than what is set at the buffer (In my case 128)...)
I do this when trcking through a soft synth as well, eg Superior Drummer... seems to be working okay
You see an issue with that? (that's not meant to read argumentative by the way, I appreciate the help)
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by popmann on May 13, 2020 23:15:38 GMT -6
I never use low latency mode, which is, IME outside Logic always asking for trouble. But, that means I never attempted to test with it in Logic. IME, these apps have a hard time keeping ONE timeline intact—low latency mode or as Cubase calls it “constrain delay compensation” is having to keep a secondary dynamic timeline of what can be turned off and whats left. Typically that is a trade off where youre allowing everything you record to be off, to get the low round trip and ensure that the scale of the error is smaller.
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Post by wiz on May 13, 2020 23:33:15 GMT -6
I never use low latency mode, which is, IME outside Logic always asking for trouble. But, that means I never attempted to test with it in Logic. IME, these apps have a hard time keeping ONE timeline intact—low latency mode or as Cubase calls it “constrain delay compensation” is having to keep a secondary dynamic timeline of what can be turned off and whats left. Typically that is a trade off where youre allowing everything you record to be off, to get the low round trip and ensure that the scale of the error is smaller. cool... give it a try sometime... seems to work ok here. Cheers Wiz |
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