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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2020 20:37:29 GMT -6
The biggest trap I know is trying to make something sound like something other than what it is. "Electric Mud"
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2020 20:44:45 GMT -6
How about shoot first, ask questions later. Sort them out when they're dead. What I mean, is, record a ton of stuff and cherry pick. Rather than beating one dead horse. You can beat 10 horses and you have a better chance of having a good one once they're all dead. The problems I see over and over with that are twofold (in paid sessions of limited budget): In the rush to record a million options, it's easy to miss some crucial connective variation. Like 45 guitar solo takes that are all phrased differently, so nothing cuts together. Or you did the bridge one way, but it doesn't work with the new chorus direction. It takes a lot more time to sort through and edit than it does to have a plan in the first place. Which circles back to the need for solid prepro. Everyone should know what they're doing, if not the session should maybe get called off, and THAT's the learn. Reschedule. PREPRODUCTION and ARRANGING, Two arts that are being rapidly lost.
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Post by drbill on May 1, 2020 20:58:54 GMT -6
(along with the Memphis Horns:)) Chris Ha! Funny you say that Chris. One of my mentors that helped me get started engineering - Ronnie Capone (iconic Stax engineer) - one time asked me if I wanted him to call the Memphis Horns in on an arrangement I did. Like I fool I turned him down on it - probably cause I was broke, but still..... Doh!!! Idiot. (Me)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 10:16:05 GMT -6
The biggest trap I know is trying to make something sound like something other than what it is. It is possible for the mixer but time consuming and expensive. I once got paid to make MT Powerkit drums sound good. I made it sound like an industrial trash can drum machine with massive eq boosts and cuts, loads of distortion, filtering, and rounds of glue compression. It was an improvement but it still didn’t sit in the mix. They refused to play the basic beats in the studio or just quickly take some samples on the studio kit. I offered them a reduced rate to pay extra to take samples because they were already in the studio to track vocals in a booth. They said no. Dumbasses.
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Post by Guitar on May 3, 2020 10:33:19 GMT -6
I've had to "enhance" technically inept performances many times. It's a total drag. But if you do it well enough, people think the band is great and give them all the credit. One of these that I did ended up being "the best song on the compilation," according to people who listened to this disc of probably 15 different performers. I guess it features the songwriting and hides the warts and train wrecks.
When people chop up a good or great performance and make it "different" though I really don't like that. When producers/mixers/engineers go too far. It's a collaboration. I guess communication would be required but sometimes, communication is not enough.
I guess it's that thing people say about producing, trying to stay as true as possible to the intention of the artist. Yeah you can help them with sounds and ideas but the artist should always have the last word, IMO.
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Post by chessparov on May 3, 2020 11:59:40 GMT -6
The biggest trap I know is trying to make something sound like something other than what it is. So much for the whole "Modern Pop" genre then! Just (well mostly ) kidding Bob. Chris
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 3, 2020 12:07:25 GMT -6
It would be one thing if we were seeing unprecedented sales of new recordings but...
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Post by chessparov on May 3, 2020 12:23:07 GMT -6
Vincent/Drumsound (Tony)/Kenny Bronowski and I, made fun of the Genre... As you can hear in this little clip portion below. Vincent got to sing the "Roy" part, and I sang the "George part" (Kenny on Chorus vocals too). I have to admit it was super fun , to hear my robotic high note ("Streeeeeaaaaam Oooooooon")! Well actually, the whole thing was super fun. It's a Parody, of the classic Wilburys hit, "Handle With Care". I modified the lyrics and title, to "Mangle With Care". It was a wonderful experience, collaborating with all of them. Chris P.S. The irony is that EVERY teenager I played it for, wants to hear more of this kind of stuff! Attachments:Mangle Me 44.1_16.mp3 (542.85 KB)
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Post by spindrift on May 3, 2020 12:37:23 GMT -6
Ha, where is the whole song? That parody sound great! chessparov
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Post by chessparov on May 3, 2020 12:50:15 GMT -6
Thanks Spindrift. Well there's the rub. My next step, is to contact the relevant parties ala Weird Al, and attempt to get permission for a full release. Our intent was/is for any proceeds, to go to MusiCares, the Grammy Charity. I'm hoping, by contacting Jeff Lynne and Bob Dylan's management initially... That might create some positive momentum, for later contacting the Estates of Harrison/Petty/Orbison. Hard for me to believe all three are gone. Chris P.S. This song (at the time) was at the very top of my Baritone range. George did a fantastic job on his vocal, making it sound "easy" But you know "It Don't Come Easy"!
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Post by johneppstein on May 3, 2020 14:33:32 GMT -6
The biggest trap I know is trying to make something sound like something other than what it is. So much for the whole "Modern Pop" genre then! Just (well mostly ) kidding Bob. Chris You had it right the first time.
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 3, 2020 14:57:10 GMT -6
Thanks Spindrift. Well there's the rub. My next step, is to contact the relevant parties ala Weird Al, and attempt to get permission for a full release. Our intent was/is for any proceeds, to go to MusiCares, the Grammy Charity. I'm hoping, by contacting Jeff Lynne and Bob Dylan's management initially... That might create some positive momentum, for later contacting the Estates of Harrison/Petty/Orbison. Hard for me to believe all three are gone. Chris P.S. This song (at the time) was at the very top of my Baritone range. George did a fantastic job on his vocal, making it sound "easy" But you know "It Don't Come Easy"! Better to ask forgiveness than permission 🙂
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Post by chessparov on May 3, 2020 16:52:04 GMT -6
I totally understand. But IMHO it's the best approach in this instance. Plus "ya never know"... It might lead to other opportunities, eventually with the remaining Wilburys. Plus all of us are big fans, of those guys. Chris EDIT: This has worked out well for me, in the past, in maintaining good relations. A well known "Classic Soul" songwriter said he was fine with me posting on YouTube... Singing covers of the various hit songs, he co-wrote. I've waited a bit, to do some more vocal training (including falsetto)... To really do any of them justice someday-I have a conscience!
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Post by stratboy on May 3, 2020 17:22:11 GMT -6
I don't work much with outside artists these days, so take my input to this wonderful discussion with a grain of salt: Musicians are humans. To produce well, you need to work with the human, as others here have said. The best book I have ever read about working with humans is, The Tao of Leadership, by John Heider. It's a fantastic book that I have referred to over and over in my various careers since I found it years ago. If I was an aspiring producer wanting to sharpen my people skills, I would buy this book and read it a couple of dozen times. It is also helpful with any group effort or project, not just inside the studio. YMMV
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Post by drbill on May 3, 2020 18:29:57 GMT -6
Better to ask forgiveness than permission 🙂 This can work pretty good with spouses the first couple of times, then it looses it's effectiveness. I've found it doesn't work too well with attorney's though, and that is most certainly where Chris will end up without properly setting up boundaries......
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Post by chessparov on May 3, 2020 18:52:27 GMT -6
Absolutely. Already had a meeting with one of my friend's, whose practice includes Entertainment Law. I realize to have get things handled on both ends (again like Weird Al), for it to be proper. Among the things I learned, is that it's much easier to clear a Cover song. Compared to when you intend to make a Parody. Then how much "Parody" (covered by Fair Use), and how much "Satire" (not covered) it is. Puts a bit more of a fire in me, to co-write originals! Chris
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Post by chessparov on May 3, 2020 18:59:27 GMT -6
So much for the whole "Modern Pop" genre then! Just (well mostly ) kidding Bob. Chris You had it right the first time. Well John, my "theory" if that if you expose the "Youngins'" to... The music that inspired us, it might expand their taste and education. My nerdy Chess Night with the Boys (like Poker but you still come home with money!) exposed me to tons of Classic Jazz. Of course, that's on hold now. But I learned hearing Bill Evans and/or Stan Getz, helped me play even better.
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Post by johneppstein on May 3, 2020 19:38:50 GMT -6
You had it right the first time. Well John, my "theory" if that if you expose the "Youngins'" to... The music that inspired us, it might expand their taste and education. My nerdy Chess Night with the Boys (like Poker but you still come home with money!) exposed me to tons of Classic Jazz. Of course, that's on hold now. But I learned hearing Bill Evans and/or Stan Getz, helped me play even better. Or they'll just hate it and put it down as "Dad" music, then go listen to rap or deaf metal.
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Post by Guitar on May 3, 2020 19:42:50 GMT -6
I played a new Funk song for my family today. We're split down the middle. I love it, one other person does, the other people aren't into the entire genre, or so they say. Age doesn't seem to be related in this case.
Personally I love the way music was recorded "back then" and the drums sound so good in particular, that style of playing. I guess it's just not for everyone. Follow your own bliss and all that.
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Post by chessparov on May 3, 2020 20:00:39 GMT -6
Well John, my "theory" if that if you expose the "Youngins'" to... The music that inspired us, it might expand their taste and education. My nerdy Chess Night with the Boys (like Poker but you still come home with money!) exposed me to tons of Classic Jazz. Of course, that's on hold now. But I learned hearing Bill Evans and/or Stan Getz, helped me play even better. Or they'll just hate it and put it down as "Dad" music, then go listen to rap or deaf metal. I still like how Johnny Cash and Tony Bennett crossed generations... Chris
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Post by johneppstein on May 3, 2020 21:00:19 GMT -6
Or they'll just hate it and put it down as "Dad" music, then go listen to rap or deaf metal. I still like how Johnny Cash and Tony Bennett crossed generations... Chris My dad, who was born in 1901, liked The Animals.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 3, 2020 21:00:20 GMT -6
Genres are marketing BS. I've been blown away by live music I was completely unfamiliar with.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 5, 2020 9:26:24 GMT -6
Genres are marketing BS. I've been blown away by live music I was completely unfamiliar with. I miss small town WI 80’s radio Smokey, Zep, Spliz Enz Rush Madonna. A consultant would have called it madness, and never played Madness!
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