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Post by plinker on Mar 23, 2020 13:49:51 GMT -6
I bought my Dynaudio BM6 passives about 12 years ago. I ran them through a number of quality amps until I hit upon the little $200 Emotiva amp that makes them sing! Also, that Emotiva has one hell of a headphone amp as well -- worth it just for that.
I still don't get the active speaker thing. Yeah, I get the active x-over performance stuff but it all just seems like an excuse for speaker builders to make more money.
I know that some people reference NS10s and horror tones, but is there anyone left whose primary nearfields are passive?
Thanks.
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Post by sean on Mar 23, 2020 13:52:23 GMT -6
I have ATC SCM12 passives at home, with a Bryston 4B-SST. Not sure it’s the perfect match but it’s what I’ve got!
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 23, 2020 13:57:29 GMT -6
I chose Amphions One 18s with a sub over Barefoot Footprint 01’s and Scm12’s with a sub.
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Post by drbill on Mar 23, 2020 14:03:47 GMT -6
When I hit actives, I never turned back. Until I can afford mega-bux Pacific Innovative mono-blocks, I'll be sticking with Actives. My personal opinion....
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 23, 2020 15:27:13 GMT -6
NS-10’s NS-4’s Barefoots 01
I kinda split time between all of them and listen to each for different reasons.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 23, 2020 15:30:27 GMT -6
I bought my Dynaudio BM6 passives about 12 years ago. I ran them through a number of quality amps until I hit upon the little $200 Emotiva amp that makes them sing! Also, that Emotiva has one hell of a headphone amp as well -- worth it just for that.
I still don't get the active speaker thing. Yeah, I get the active x-over performance stuff but it all just seems like an excuse for speaker builders to make more money.
I know that some people reference NS10s and horror tones, but is there anyone left whose primary nearfields are passive?
Thanks.
Your question reminds me on the fact that my dad still owns an Accuphase E 305 from the 80s. That was the time when Japanese government was funding creative electronic companies.
I am sure the 305 would play nicely with my NS10s - but dad cant let it go at the age of 80. SNR of 106 db in the 80s...
Would love to let a tech do a refurbishing...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 15:36:26 GMT -6
I bought my Dynaudio BM6 passives about 12 years ago. I ran them through a number of quality amps until I hit upon the little $200 Emotiva amp that makes them sing! Also, that Emotiva has one hell of a headphone amp as well -- worth it just for that.
I still don't get the active speaker thing. Yeah, I get the active x-over performance stuff but it all just seems like an excuse for speaker builders to make more money.
I know that some people reference NS10s and horror tones, but is there anyone left whose primary nearfields are passive?
Thanks.
The passive BM6 are awesome and better than the actives. The Dyn plateamps break due to dodgy asian parts.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 23, 2020 16:05:34 GMT -6
There are very, very few actives that use anything but generic plate amps. The exceptions that come to mind are ATC, PMC and Questeds. In theory Active should be better, if you actually build the amp around your driver selection and can build better closer tolerance crossovers. Reality sucks, most speaker guys are not amp guys and vice versa. In my gear pimp days I will say I have to admit actives are just easy to sell, nobody cared how an amp sounded with a particular speaker it was all about Watts. Right now the amp selection here is a stock Adcom 545, a JW modded 545, a little single space Quested 25 watt is in the kids room and Van Alstines take on a modded Dynaco 25 watt tube amp. No ARC, Crown Reference Bryston, Krell all gone.
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Post by brenta on Mar 23, 2020 16:18:36 GMT -6
I’m not firmly for or against passive or active speakers, but currently I am all passive with three sets of speakers plus a mono Avantone mix cube.
The big thing for me is price, being able to buy one nice amp and a speaker switcher makes it much cheaper to have multiple sets of monitors.
As far as which is better, I’ve heard lots of actives I’ve liked and disliked and I’ve heard lots of passives I’ve liked and disliked. Seems most mix engineers generally use active and most mastering engineers generally use passive.
From my limited knowledge of speaker design it seems actives usually have the advantage in the crossover, but usually have a disadvantage in the amplifier. Actives have size and weight considerations for an attached amp and often times don’t have a toroidal power transformer or linear power supply and have Class D amps. Not that I’m personally saying these things kill performance, but I’ve heard a lot of knowledgable people say they do.
My passive mains weigh about 150 pounds each and my amp weighs about 80, so to combine them would be pretty unwieldy.
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Post by plinker on Mar 23, 2020 16:52:43 GMT -6
The passive BM6 are awesome and better than the actives. The Dyn plateamps break due to dodgy asian parts. Wow! So, I actually bought ahead of the curve, huh?! First time for everything...
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Post by plinker on Mar 23, 2020 16:55:21 GMT -6
When I hit actives, I never turned back. Until I can afford mega-bux Pacific Innovative mono-blocks, I'll be sticking with Actives. My personal opinion.... Care you elaborate? Did they just sound that much better, or was it a convenience thing?
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Post by subspace on Mar 23, 2020 17:02:10 GMT -6
My first studio monitors in the '80s were self-powered, but I've been on all passives for the last twenty years, Westlake BBSM-6 sand NS-10s with Crown CTs and Parasound HCA power.
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Post by drbill on Mar 23, 2020 17:10:25 GMT -6
When I hit actives, I never turned back. Until I can afford mega-bux Pacific Innovative mono-blocks, I'll be sticking with Actives. My personal opinion.... Care you elaborate? Did they just sound that much better, or was it a convenience thing? No, using the Pacific Innovative mono block amps was kind of like having all heaven open up. I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that they are amazing amps, and if I could find / afford them, I'd definitely consider mixing on passive speakers again. But all the usual suspect amps don't really compare. And it's not even fair. Price or component wise. Ralph Skelton (PacInn) is a freaking genius, and his amps (or mods) are way more about his artistic sense of sonics than they ever were about being a "product".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 17:11:14 GMT -6
There are very, very few actives that use anything but generic plate amps. The exceptions that come to mind are ATC, PMC and Questeds. In theory Active should be better, if you actually build the amp around your driver selection and can build better closer tolerance crossovers. Reality sucks, most speaker guys are not amp guys and vice versa. In my gear pimp days I will say I have to admit actives are just easy to sell, nobody cared how an amp sounded with a particular speaker it was all about Watts. Right now the amp selection here is a stock Adcom 545, a JW modded 545, a little single space Quested 25 watt is in the kids room and Van Alstines take on a modded Dynaco 25 watt tube amp. No ARC, Crown Reference Bryston, Krell all gone. Quested use the killer Mc2 amps now. The original Dyn Bm6a and BM15a used decent mosfet amps but they got cheaped out. The later ones used awful gainclones like the Yamahas, Neumanns, class AB Genelecs, APS, and all but the newest KRKs. Those LM3886 amps really suck. I’ve tried the diy ones on efficient enough passive speakers. They’re really bad. The all in one ST Microelectronics class D boards in all the cheap hyped (JBL 305, Kali, etc) monitors suck even more The modern class d plate amps based on newer modules from TI, Ice, and Pascal are pretty decent and sound better than the gainclones. Actual class d separate power amps tend to be very overdamped and mediocre due to using current limited switching power supplies (where they cheap out) and distorting at a third to half of the advertised wattage. None of the modules can perform cleanly at what they are advertised for. You need a crap ton more class d watts to replace class ab and it’s not cheap and will sound worse anyway with way compex circuits. That just means more things that can break long term. The class d crown drivecores had crap reliability compared to QSC Class ab.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 23, 2020 19:21:57 GMT -6
There are very, very few actives that use anything but generic plate amps. The exceptions that come to mind are ATC, PMC and Questeds. In theory Active should be better, if you actually build the amp around your driver selection and can build better closer tolerance crossovers. Reality sucks, most speaker guys are not amp guys and vice versa. In my gear pimp days I will say I have to admit actives are just easy to sell, nobody cared how an amp sounded with a particular speaker it was all about Watts. Right now the amp selection here is a stock Adcom 545, a JW modded 545, a little single space Quested 25 watt is in the kids room and Van Alstines take on a modded Dynaco 25 watt tube amp. No ARC, Crown Reference Bryston, Krell all gone.
They bombarded me with those facts at the Geithain factory, and I am sure they run the extra mile to design the best active design they can. I asked if a human ear can hear the extra time and investment... vs a well build external amplifier.
The answer was somewhat ambiguous... I always ask myself if I could hear the difference (blind test) using a special design, or a modern cheap class-D 150$ amp from e bay.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 23, 2020 19:26:47 GMT -6
There are very, very few actives that use anything but generic plate amps. The exceptions that come to mind are ATC, PMC and Questeds. In theory Active should be better, if you actually build the amp around your driver selection and can build better closer tolerance crossovers. Reality sucks, most speaker guys are not amp guys and vice versa. In my gear pimp days I will say I have to admit actives are just easy to sell, nobody cared how an amp sounded with a particular speaker it was all about Watts. Right now the amp selection here is a stock Adcom 545, a JW modded 545, a little single space Quested 25 watt is in the kids room and Van Alstines take on a modded Dynaco 25 watt tube amp. No ARC, Crown Reference Bryston, Krell all gone.
They bombarded me with those facts at the Geithain factory, and I am sure they run the extra mile to design the best active design they can. I asked if a human ear can hear the extra time and investment... vs a well build external amplifier.
The answer was somewhat ambiguous... I always ask myself if I could hear the difference (blind test) using a special design, or a modern cheap class-D 150$ amp from e bay.
The answer is yes, if you take the time to listen, think of amps this way can you hear the difference in pre-amps? Well a power amp is basically serving the same exact function except at a much higher level of current and voltage.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 23, 2020 19:32:06 GMT -6
There are very, very few actives that use anything but generic plate amps. The exceptions that come to mind are ATC, PMC and Questeds. In theory Active should be better, if you actually build the amp around your driver selection and can build better closer tolerance crossovers. Reality sucks, most speaker guys are not amp guys and vice versa. In my gear pimp days I will say I have to admit actives are just easy to sell, nobody cared how an amp sounded with a particular speaker it was all about Watts. Right now the amp selection here is a stock Adcom 545, a JW modded 545, a little single space Quested 25 watt is in the kids room and Van Alstines take on a modded Dynaco 25 watt tube amp. No ARC, Crown Reference Bryston, Krell all gone. Quested use the killer Mc2 amps now. The original Dyn Bm6a and BM15a used decent mosfet amps but they got cheaped out. The later ones used awful gainclones like the Yamahas, Neumanns, class AB Genelecs, APS, and all but the newest KRKs. Those LM3886 amps really suck. I’ve tried the diy ones on efficient enough passive speakers. They’re really bad. The all in one ST Microelectronics class D boards in all the cheap hyped (JBL 305, Kali, etc) monitors suck even more The modern class d plate amps based on newer modules from TI, Ice, and Pascal are pretty decent and sound better than the gainclones. Actual class d separate power amps tend to be very overdamped and mediocre due to using current limited switching power supplies (where they cheap out) and distorting at a third to half of the advertised wattage. None of the modules can perform cleanly at what they are advertised for. You need a crap ton more class d watts to replace class ab and it’s not cheap and will sound worse anyway with way compex circuits. That just means more things that can break long term. The class d crown drivecores had crap reliability compared to QSC Class ab. I agree with almost everything except next to the big league amps as sweet as the AB QSC’s are they sound slow and lack in that last 5% of detail. QSC is a great live amp and not a bad studio amp, but next to the Krell or JW Modded Adcom it’s night and day on great drivers.
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Post by john on Mar 23, 2020 21:20:05 GMT -6
Ns10s and a mono Altec 604/612/1569 combo.
Should I try this emotiva on the ns10s? Always happy to try diff amps on them.
There’s also some 8” active JBLs but not really for mixing on.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 23, 2020 21:38:56 GMT -6
Tyler D3MXs powered by a Yamaha M-40. Kef Q-60s powered by stock Adcom 545 Pelonis M42s powered by Pelonis Auratone 5Cs powered by Hafler P1200. All passive here! I did just buy a pair of IK iLouds. My first powered monitors, lol. Haven't unpacked them yet, but bought them after hearing a friend's. Pretty impressive for such tiny little things.
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Post by nick8801 on Mar 23, 2020 21:50:05 GMT -6
Love mixing on ns10’s.
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Post by drbill on Mar 23, 2020 22:58:22 GMT -6
Haha!! And for a contrarian position, I hate mixing on NS10's. But when I did mix on them, I had Pac Inn mono blocks. That made life a little easier. Heh heh heh....
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Post by stratboy on Mar 24, 2020 5:08:20 GMT -6
Haha!! And for a contrarian position, I hate mixing on NS10's. But when I did mix on them, I had Pac Inn mono blocks. That made life a little easier. Heh heh heh.... That's kinda like dropping a Ferrari V-12 in a Plymouth Valiant, drbill!
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Post by plinker on Mar 24, 2020 8:06:27 GMT -6
Tyler D3MXs powered by a Yamaha M-40. Kef Q-60s powered by stock Adcom 545 Pelonis M42s powered by Pelonis Auratone 5Cs powered by Hafler P1200. All passive here! I did just buy a pair of IK iLouds. My first powered monitors, lol. Haven't unpacked them yet, but bought them after hearing a friend's. Pretty impressive for such tiny little things. I remember when the Pelonis came out. I've always been curious about them. What's been your experience? Thanks.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 24, 2020 8:43:06 GMT -6
Tyler D3MXs powered by a Yamaha M-40. Kef Q-60s powered by stock Adcom 545 Pelonis M42s powered by Pelonis Auratone 5Cs powered by Hafler P1200. All passive here! I did just buy a pair of IK iLouds. My first powered monitors, lol. Haven't unpacked them yet, but bought them after hearing a friend's. Pretty impressive for such tiny little things. I remember when the Pelonis came out. I've always been curious about them. What's been your experience? Thanks.
I really like them. I came up working in studios with soffit mounted UREI 813s. Big, coaxial monitors. So I’ve always been attracted to that phase coherent sound. My KEFs are coax. The Pelonis 42s use a 4” Tannoy coax speaker and some DSP to help them punch above their weight. They’re smooth throughout their range, with a lot of mid detail. They need a sub for the bottom, but I use them to focus on the mids. They improved my mixes quite a bit when I got them. Now I mostly use the Tyler’s because they don’t need a sub, but when I want to change perspective, I switch to the 42s.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 9:02:43 GMT -6
Did anyone try the newer Proac SM100? The big price increase scared me away.
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