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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 21, 2020 14:25:03 GMT -6
A binaural beat/soundscape music bed. Approx 35 min long.
Here's the backstory: I recorded, edited, mixed dialog for a guided meditation. It needs music. The client and I agreed to talk "music" options and price once I was done mixing and editing the dialog (which was paid for at my normal hourly rate). It took me about 2 hours to come up with a cool evolving binaural beat "music" bed with some synth pads playing at different harmonics etc. Should I charge her hourly? As a work-for-hire? Non-exclusive license? Flat rate?
Keep in mind its not really "music" composing, its more like sound design. Also, she can license new age droney music from a number of places pretty cheap. A quick search and I see a number of tracks, approx 5 min long, going for $20-25 licensing fee.
I want to give her a good deal, and this gig will likely lead to me recording an entire meditation course for her.
Advice?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2020 15:25:38 GMT -6
Would you be comfortable discussing price options with client?
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Post by drbill on Feb 21, 2020 15:50:02 GMT -6
A binaural beat/soundscape music bed. Approx 35 min long.
Here's the backstory: I recorded, edited, mixed dialog for a guided meditation. It needs music. The client and I agreed to talk "music" options and price once I was done mixing and editing the dialog (which was paid for at my normal hourly rate). It took me about 2 hours to come up with a cool evolving binaural beat "music" bed with some synth pads playing at different harmonics etc. Should I charge her hourly? As a work-for-hire? Non-exclusive license? Flat rate?
Keep in mind its not really "music" composing, its more like sound design. Also, she can license new age droney music from a number of places pretty cheap. A quick search and I see a number of tracks, approx 5 min long, going for $20-25 licensing fee.
I want to give her a good deal, and this gig will likely lead to me recording an entire meditation course for her.
Advice?
That IS music. And a lot of it. Unless she wants to loop it, writing 35 minutes is a big job. You can't compete with $20-25 for 5 minutes. Let her license the $20 music unless she wants to PAY for custom music. I wouldn't even quote her unless she REALLY wants custom music. At which point, depending on how long it takes you to write, produce, mix, drop it in - charge her significantly more than the canned music. I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000 would probably be fair. Make sure for that price that you retain ownership (publishing and master rights) of the music - and "license" the custom score to her in perpetuity for the use in that particular project. What you don't want is an ongoing client who does not value your contribution and how much creativity and time it takes to produce said contribution. Your #1, FIRST question for her : "what is your budget for music". That will pretty much tell you whether to walk, start writing, or start scavenging music on pond5. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 21, 2020 16:00:17 GMT -6
A binaural beat/soundscape music bed. Approx 35 min long.
Here's the backstory: I recorded, edited, mixed dialog for a guided meditation. It needs music. The client and I agreed to talk "music" options and price once I was done mixing and editing the dialog (which was paid for at my normal hourly rate). It took me about 2 hours to come up with a cool evolving binaural beat "music" bed with some synth pads playing at different harmonics etc. Should I charge her hourly? As a work-for-hire? Non-exclusive license? Flat rate?
Keep in mind its not really "music" composing, its more like sound design. Also, she can license new age droney music from a number of places pretty cheap. A quick search and I see a number of tracks, approx 5 min long, going for $20-25 licensing fee.
I want to give her a good deal, and this gig will likely lead to me recording an entire meditation course for her.
Advice?
That IS music. And a lot of it. Unless she wants to loop it, writing 35 minutes is a big job. You can't compete with $20-25 for 5 minutes. Let her license the $20 music unless she wants to PAY for custom music. I wouldn't even quote her unless she REALLY wants custom music. At which point, depending on how long it takes you to write, produce, mix, drop it in - charge her significantly more than the canned music. I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000 would probably be fair. Make sure for that price that you retain ownership (publishing and master rights) of the music - and "license" the custom score to her in perpetuity for the use in that particular project.
Thanks for the input. Normally, yes, this would come with a big price tag. In the past I've done music ques for $500 each, lasting about 1 min each. This particular case is a little unique from a normal composition gig though. Are you familiar with Binaural Beats? Its really not music. Its looped sine waves at specific intervals, used to create oscillations that help induce altered states. It literally took all of 2 hours to do the whole thing, and that's with me fucking around with it.
In my case would you make a separate distinction? Or would you still treat it like a normal score? I'm interested to hear your opinion. Thanks
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 21, 2020 16:01:17 GMT -6
Would you be comfortable discussing price options with client? Totally, I've worked with her on other projects and we have a great working relationship. We've already agreed that the pricing discussion (for the "music") needs to happen. Just not sure what/how to pitch. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 21, 2020 16:50:41 GMT -6
If the trust and respect are there I am suggesting you just be transparent with her and just work out a price that works for both of you ?
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Post by lando on Feb 22, 2020 2:02:54 GMT -6
If a job like this took me 2 hours, I liked the client and have had work from her before I would charge 200$. Surely that’s dirt cheap, but it’s what licensing tracks from the online library would have cost her and it was made super fast.
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2020 12:56:17 GMT -6
That IS music. And a lot of it. Unless she wants to loop it, writing 35 minutes is a big job. You can't compete with $20-25 for 5 minutes. Let her license the $20 music unless she wants to PAY for custom music. I wouldn't even quote her unless she REALLY wants custom music. At which point, depending on how long it takes you to write, produce, mix, drop it in - charge her significantly more than the canned music. I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000 would probably be fair. Make sure for that price that you retain ownership (publishing and master rights) of the music - and "license" the custom score to her in perpetuity for the use in that particular project.
Thanks for the input. Normally, yes, this would come with a big price tag. In the past I've done music ques for $500 each, lasting about 1 min each. This particular case is a little unique from a normal composition gig though. Are you familiar with Binaural Beats? Its really not music. Its looped sine waves at specific intervals, used to create oscillations that help induce altered states. It literally took all of 2 hours to do the whole thing, and that's with me fucking around with it.
In my case would you make a separate distinction? Or would you still treat it like a normal score? I'm interested to hear your opinion. Thanks
I'm not INTIMATELY familiar, but I have a cursory understanding, and IMO, it's much more complex than pulling up a sine-wave synth pad and holding it for 35 minutes. I wouldn't charge $500 a minute, but I wouldn't charge $200 either. I have done a lot of music that would loosely fall into the genre, and IMO, doing it and doing it great is not simple. I'd be charging $4-5k for the project. Just listening back ONCE takes more than a half hour. This will suck up a lot of hours, and you should be properly compensated for your creativity. Unless of course you are going to hold down a couple of notes on a keyboard for 35 minutes. Then charge a dirt cheap cost like $200. But be advised - a cheap price degrades our craft, and ultimately pushes you closer to not being able to make ends meet doing the thing that you are gifted at. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 23, 2020 10:43:21 GMT -6
Thanks for the input. Normally, yes, this would come with a big price tag. In the past I've done music ques for $500 each, lasting about 1 min each. This particular case is a little unique from a normal composition gig though. Are you familiar with Binaural Beats? Its really not music. Its looped sine waves at specific intervals, used to create oscillations that help induce altered states. It literally took all of 2 hours to do the whole thing, and that's with me fucking around with it.
In my case would you make a separate distinction? Or would you still treat it like a normal score? I'm interested to hear your opinion. Thanks
I'm not INTIMATELY familiar, but I have a cursory understanding, and IMO, it's much more complex than pulling up a sine-wave synth pad and holding it for 35 minutes. I wouldn't charge $500 a minute, but I wouldn't charge $200 either. I have done a lot of music that would loosely fall into the genre, and IMO, doing it and doing it great is not simple. I'd be charging $4-5k for the project. Just listening back ONCE takes more than a half hour. This will suck up a lot of hours, and you should be properly compensated for your creativity. Unless of course you are going to hold down a couple of notes on a keyboard for 35 minutes. Then charge a dirt cheap cost like $200. But be advised - a cheap price degrades our craft, and ultimately pushes you closer to not being able to make ends meet doing the thing that you are gifted at. Thanks Dr Bill, that’s the perspective I was looking for. I’m very conscious of not undermining our profession. I find setting a fair price for my services rather tricky since living to a new market two years ago. Also the lack of transparency and/or pricing standards among my peers doesn’t help either. |
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Post by Ward on Feb 23, 2020 10:50:50 GMT -6
Industrials of that length usually go for around $2500. That has been the fixed price for about 20 odd years now (since 1997 IIRC)
Some people go as low as $1500 but usually about $2500 and up.
And it's sold forever. You sign away all royalties. But you retain your credit and copyright.
EDIT: SOME PEOPLE WILL NEED AN EXPLANATION FOR THE LAST SENTENCE>
Retain your credit: your name as composer and/or performer will show up in the credits of the industrial (film, video)
Retain your copyright: If anyone else tries to steal or copy your music, you have the responsibility to fight for it.
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