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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 6:25:13 GMT -6
Indie fully open to click, provides line level out ? Yeah, apparently that removes the trim from the circuit.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 6:40:20 GMT -6
Well, that’s the problem. My Motu stuff doesn’t do AES out. I can do USB out, but that doesn’t let me use the volume control on my Motu. I can use ADAT, but again, no volume control on Motu. I have SPDIF (RCA) out on the Motu, but no inputs on the Convert for that connection type. So really, I have no way to control the volume without the output trim of the Convert, unless I use USB and control volume with my computer, but that’s not going to work in PT using both the Motu and Convert. I’ve never had luck using aggregate devices. I think, though, that’s my best option right now. Just do some listening (not mixing) via USB and see if it’s worth keeping, considering I can send it back for a refund as it’s essentially not fully functioning.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2020 7:25:43 GMT -6
Good idea, very interested in your sense of it being a keeper. Am looking at one too, a lot of dough !
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Post by delcampo on Oct 6, 2020 8:21:45 GMT -6
I continue to be happy w the Convert. It's a very enjoyable / musical listen.
I will say this about when its output Potentiometer is engaged FWIW to all...
I've used it this way it for a while now as I've struggled to find a simple efficient Monitor controller (w/o needing many bells & whistles) that didn't introduce a sonic compromise.
Tried the 2400 audio & Coleman M3. Although I kept hearing an appreciable improvement with L-R tracking and some better clarity up top, I kept preferring the balls / impact of the lows /low-mids when coming directly from the C2 to the monitors amp. The 2400 is really good but has a limit to its scale of input and bottom line, cannot fully accommodate the C2's -18db output. Which in my monitoring case, I need a controller to do.
This all could be impedance related and, "might" be more-so of an issue for those that don't have a very powerfull amp to monitors. I have the Pelonis 4288's and like them a lot but, they don't have a super powerfull amp.
I've been trying a simple Goldpoint SAX1 for the last few days and so far prefer it to the other options but still digesting.
Would be good to hear others take on this. What monitor controller post C2 is working for ya, any similar thoughts on this etc.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2020 8:40:41 GMT -6
Any reason you don’t send C2 digitally back to your interface and use that to control volume ? I understand you’d be hearing the c2 from your interface.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 8:59:18 GMT -6
I will say this about when its output Potentiometer is engaged FWIW to all... Do you think the output potentiometer degrades the sound? Is that what you mean?
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 9:00:04 GMT -6
Any reason you don’t send C2 digitally back to your interface and use that to control volume ? I understand you’d be hearing the c2 from your interface. How's that work? Wouldn't the analog outs need to come from the Motu in that case?
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 6, 2020 9:03:46 GMT -6
I will say this about when its output Potentiometer is engaged FWIW to all... Do you think the output potentiometer degrades the sound? Is that what you mean? Think he’s saying he prefers the sound of the Convert potentiometer
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Post by delcampo on Oct 6, 2020 9:24:45 GMT -6
I think that there's an inherent compromise in using the Converts potentiometer in that, the L-R tracking at low volumes is not fully linear. Also, it seems to me that clarity can be appreciably improved with a quality Controller following a Convert bypassed potentiometer.
But, the thing I've struggled with a bit (and again, not sure how user dependent this is with ones specific amp/monitors & impedence stuff) ...is I hear a muscle or a low mids balls going directly out of the Converts potentiometer that "I at least" am perceiving as missing when the C2 potentiometer is bypassed & then using a Controller downstream.
I'm left wondering if there's a coloring of sorts, or sonic signature, in using the C2 potentiometer that I've grown to like ?? in so far as gain staging / impedance & my setup?? So the compromise in short, & in my case, is better tracking and clarity bypassing C2 potentiometer but missing some of that low mid girth.
I've talked w Dangerous about this stuff but, it's ultimately of course pretty subjective.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2020 9:25:00 GMT -6
Indie : yes but it should still sound different from the C2.
I use to hear my dbox from my daw and you could hear it was clearer more linear than my Apollo by itself.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 9:39:21 GMT -6
Indie : yes but it should still sound different from the C2. I use to hear my dbox from my daw and you could hear it was clearer more linear than my Apollo by itself. Sorry, I'm not following you. You want me to go digital in to the C2, then digital out of the C2 into my Motu, then analog out of the Motu into monitors?
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2020 10:02:40 GMT -6
I was just wondering about taking the c2 out digitally to your interface and use your interface volume control?
I had my dbox do this on spdif and use that as an input to a print track, so I could print it or solo it, but if you are monitoring from your interface you are hearing the c2 signal through your interface’s da ?
Fab DuPont recommended this for dbox with Apollo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 10:45:19 GMT -6
Well, that’s the problem. My Motu stuff doesn’t do AES out. I can do USB out, but that doesn’t let me use the volume control on my Motu. I can use ADAT, but again, no volume control on Motu. I have SPDIF (RCA) out on the Motu, but no inputs on the Convert for that connection type. So really, I have no way to control the volume without the output trim of the Convert, unless I use USB and control volume with my computer, but that’s not going to work in PT using both the Motu and Convert. I’ve never had luck using aggregate devices. I think, though, that’s my best option right now. Just do some listening (not mixing) via USB and see if it’s worth keeping, considering I can send it back for a refund as it’s essentially not fully functioning. Get an external volume control. Coleman mil specpassive pot is great. Resistor ladders great. Drawmer’s mounted real deal stuff with case mounted jacks is good but a bit warm. The Drawmer slimline stuff sounds pretty much the same but can break. Everything with a normal audio pot like Alps blue can break in regular 24/7 use so I wouldn’t pay out the ass for it. The motu digital volume control for the monitor outs is internal to the ESS Sabre da chip. 32 bit floating point. That’s why it doesn’t suck and is almost as good as your 64 bit float daw, Logic excluded, faders. It sounded better than my passive pots and Dangerous Source. DAW faders will be worse because they mostly have to be truncated to 24-bit fixed point, usually undithered so slap a 24 bit dither on your monitoring fx or master bus, to reach the da in the monitoring path through the interface’s drivers. confluence.merging.com/download/attachments/9338933/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdfYou can still use a fader on the MOTU digital mixer if you enable it, it’s still 32 bit float, but it won’t be as high quality because it needs to be truncated to 24 bit fixed to hit the spdif or adat outs. It will work for right now for you. I have no idea if the MOTU AVB mixer outputs are dithered. I know Lynx and Metric Halo’s are and RME isn’t. I guess it comes down to, do you want really transparent DA or something say more musical? I think the convert is more on the musical side with excellent soundstage and dimension , my sense after reading tape op review? I guess on paper the convert specs: aren’t as clean as some other boxes, but dangerous is all about sound quality and features? You can’t qualify converters in the real world by the standard manufacture supplied pink noise and 1khz measurements. Some with decent specs at 1khz measure like they sound in the treble like RME Firefaces, ie like crap. All converters sound different. Different chips and opamps pretty much sound drastically different from each other in the same circuit and most converter chips do not impose a uniform timbre across devices. Exceptions are the old Wolfson chips and AK4490. Not other AKM chips though. There are some that are openly very colored like Burls and Sony hifi stuff but the Dangerous Convert is not one of them. It sounds huge and has a nice high end sheen. If you want even more detail with the same AD1955 chip, there’s the even more expensive Bricasti M1. Cheaper and warmer is the old Lavry DA11. These all use the same DA chips, sound great, and totally different.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 10:49:27 GMT -6
I was just wondering about taking the c2 out digitally to your interface and use your interface volume control? I had my dbox do this on spdif and use that as an input to a print track, so I could print it or solo it, but if you are monitoring from your interface you are hearing the c2 signal through your interface’s da ? Fab DuPont recommended this for dbox with Apollo. I'm sorry man. I still don't get what you are trying to suggest in regards to monitoring through the C2 while using the Motu volume control.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2020 11:12:21 GMT -6
The one poster above was expressing concern about using a monitor controller, so I just wondered why? You could just send the c2, digitally to your main interface, to bypass your interfaces AD and monitor through its DA and use the volume control of that interface? I have mostly used apollo and symphony, both of which had big rotary volume controls and digital ins so saw little point in buying a monitor controller other than driving your monitors from the DA of your secondary interface (c2 etc.) Sorry,, I don’t know how else to explain it! No biggee we all have our preferred workflows !
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 6, 2020 11:57:44 GMT -6
Well, that’s the problem. My Motu stuff doesn’t do AES out. I can do USB out, but that doesn’t let me use the volume control on my Motu. I can use ADAT, but again, no volume control on Motu. I have SPDIF (RCA) out on the Motu, but no inputs on the Convert for that connection type. So really, I have no way to control the volume without the output trim of the Convert, unless I use USB and control volume with my computer, but that’s not going to work in PT using both the Motu and Convert. I’ve never had luck using aggregate devices. I think, though, that’s my best option right now. Just do some listening (not mixing) via USB and see if it’s worth keeping, considering I can send it back for a refund as it’s essentially not fully functioning. Try a decent RCA to XLR cable, you would be surprised how often this works for SPDIF to AES.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 12:51:52 GMT -6
The one poster above was expressing concern about using a monitor controller, so I just wondered why? You could just send the c2, digitally to your main interface, to bypass your interfaces AD and monitor through its DA and use the volume control of that interface? I have mostly used apollo and symphony, both of which had big rotary volume controls and digital ins so saw little point in buying a monitor controller other than driving your monitors from the DA of your secondary interface (c2 etc.) Sorry,, I don’t know how else to explain it! No biggee we all have our preferred workflows ! Right, but then I wouldn't be using the conversion of the C2, which is kind of the point, no? Am I missing something?
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2020 13:16:04 GMT -6
Think we are miscommunicating send your analog to c2 to get its conversion , send it digitally back to your first interface to skip a second pass through its AD, but monitor off its DA but use its volume control?
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 6, 2020 13:40:33 GMT -6
Think we are miscommunicating send your analog to c2 to get its conversion , send it digitally back to your first interface to skip a second pass through its AD, but monitor off its DA but use its volume control? Yeah, but the Dangerous isn't an AD converter, it's a DA converter. Sending a digital signal (you HAVE to send digital, not analog) to the Dangerous only to send a digital signal back wouldn't make use of the DA converters.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 9, 2020 18:26:42 GMT -6
Btw - it’s pretty freaking amazing. Agreed. Spent some time tonight A/B'ing best I could with the Motu DA. Man, this thing brings another level of depth and spatial stereo imaging. Seems the top is extended and the bottom is tighter. Feels more dimensional where the Motu feels a little flatter. I have to send it in for repair, just trying to determine if it's worth my time and effort, or if I just send it back to the seller for a refund. Conclusion? It's worth it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 9, 2020 19:20:41 GMT -6
Btw - it’s pretty freaking amazing. Agreed. Spent some time tonight A/B'ing best I could with the Motu DA. Man, this thing brings another level of depth and spatial stereo imaging. Seems the top is extended and the bottom is tighter. Feels more dimensional where the Motu feels a little flatter. I have to send it in for repair, just trying to determine if it's worth my time and effort, or if I just send it back to the seller for a refund. Conclusion? It's worth it. Yeah it has been a while since I listened/compared it to the Apollo, but I remembered feeling the same way. The MOTU da is good too...
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Post by guitfiddler on Oct 9, 2020 21:26:35 GMT -6
I absolutely adore the sound of the Convert2 D/A. I had a demo here with a problem and had to send it back for a refund unfortunately. It has a top notch sound that will make your monitors sound better. I did a mix on the Apollo 16 mkII and did the same mix on the Convert2 D/A and my mix on the Convert2 D/A came out much better. When I inserted the Convert2 D/A going out from my Apollo 16 mkII AES/EBU into the Convert 2 D/A it was a huge difference, some call it a game changer. I’d say at least 30-40% difference in better quality. It’s hard to measure a percentage of quality increase, but it was a big enough difference that I think it’s worth the money spent. I currently go in from my Dangerous Music AD+ AES/EBU into my Apollo mkII to track. I am still saving to get the Convert 2 D/A, and I want to add another Apollo, still yet to try the Apollo X series.
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