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Vocal air
Jan 17, 2020 20:00:47 GMT -6
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Post by bartacusad on Jan 17, 2020 20:00:47 GMT -6
What’s your favorite trick or plugin for adding air to a vocal? I never have found the magical trick that works everytime. I’ve got a Dolby unit, Maag Eq, Slate Revival, and lots of other plugs but just haven’t nailed it yet.
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Post by stormymondays on Jan 18, 2020 2:48:58 GMT -6
I was going to say Dolby A and Maag. If those don’t work for you maybe the problem is with the capture of the source? Try the Clariphonic and a Pultec as well (I like the Rule Teq one). Oh and maybe the Hammer EQ.
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Vocal air
Jan 18, 2020 5:25:43 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 18, 2020 5:25:43 GMT -6
What freq = air to you and is your front end capturing those? I’d focus first on capturing it at source rather then chasing it in your mix ?
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Post by sirthought on Jan 18, 2020 9:08:17 GMT -6
I'm ITB. I either use an API EQ to push 20K. Or I try something like Waves Aphex or UAD SPL Tube Vitalizer. Those usually give it a bit of a poke in the mix without adding a lot more gain.
I think UAD also has that Precision kHz plug. Haven't used that, but I have the brother version for sub low end that works really well.
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Vocal air
Jan 18, 2020 9:33:39 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 18, 2020 9:33:39 GMT -6
If MAAG isn't doing it, you need a different mic or room.
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Post by drbill on Jan 18, 2020 10:05:09 GMT -6
The Eisen LilPEQr "air" band, or the Silver Bullet "air" band. Both excellent. For me, either is preferable to standard style EQ's or Pultec's.
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Post by jamiesego on Jan 18, 2020 10:14:29 GMT -6
Has anyone noticed the “air” thing being really abused in the last few years? I’ve heard tracks where it sounds like a layer of HF distortion that barely even connected to the vocal if that makes sense.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 18, 2020 14:28:37 GMT -6
air eq works sometimes
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Post by ericn on Jan 18, 2020 22:23:00 GMT -6
A real room, and a vocalist who can keep some distance from the mic.
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Post by matt555 on Jan 19, 2020 5:25:54 GMT -6
I've always wondered how they achieve the air sound to a vocal. I have tried many times but can't seem to replicate it.
Here is an example of what I mean by "air", on this Freya Ridings track Lost without you, virtually every word has the "air" in the studio recording which is here however when it comes to a live performance here you can hear that while her voice has the same sound/tone the "air" is not on every word or as pronounced. The air seems to be on certain works like first and last words of the line.
If there is any quides online that show going from one to the other would be interested to see them!
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Vocal air
Jan 19, 2020 14:57:34 GMT -6
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Post by jamiesego on Jan 19, 2020 14:57:34 GMT -6
Mic choice probably has a lot to do with it, but apart from that I would try a good old fashioned HF boost on some kind of nice pultec style EQ. Or you could try a parallel buss with the lows cut out and and some heavy compression, saturation, or an exciter.
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Post by seawell on Jan 19, 2020 15:27:01 GMT -6
I've always wondered how they achieve the air sound to a vocal. I have tried many times but can't seem to replicate it. Here is an example of what I mean by "air", on this Freya Ridings track Lost without you, virtually every word has the "air" in the studio recording which is here however when it comes to a live performance here you can hear that while her voice has the same sound/tone the "air" is not on every word or as pronounced. The air seems to be on certain works like first and last words of the line. If there is any quides online that show going from one to the other would be interested to see them! To get that much air I'd guess it's a combo of a really breathy performance from the singer into a mic with a lot of top detail(C12, C800 or maybe a modded U67). During the mix the best way I've been able to achieve something similar is with a lot of variu mu compression and pultec top end boost. So much so that your consonants are going to become close to unbearable but once you automate those down with volume automation you're left with that super bright/intimate vocal sound that is airy on every phrase because of the time spent automating.
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 19, 2020 16:55:40 GMT -6
The mic and room play a HUGE role in determining how much HF lift you can get away with. Crappy mics and rooms add a lot of garbage throughout the frequency spectrum that only gets worse when you try to make things brighter.
Conversely, with the right mic in the right room, you can add an almost offensive amount of air without sounding harsh or brittle. As mentioned above, you’ll probably have to automate hard consonants and sibilants, but that’s it.
Another factor is finding the right EQs and compressors. I wanted very desperately to believe that all digital EQs are created equal, but my ears tell me otherwise. Certain EQs have smoother/more natural sounding shelves, whereas some can actually be quite harsh.
Lately, my favorite plugin for adding air is CEIL by Acustica. In the hardware world, I’m a huge fan of the Harrison 32EQ, and of course, my Wunder PEQ. I tend to shy away from anything Neve-ish for this task — the 1073’s high shelf has always seemed too drastic for my tastes.
Compressor choice makes a big difference, too. I recently added a bunch of tube traps to my room, and I can now hear my Golden Age Comp-3A adding a crispy/crunchy texture to the HF that I’m not too hot about. I still love the way it levels out vocals, but now that I’ve sorted out my room, I’m actually finding that I like the tone of certain plugins more.
Beyond this converters and even clocking can make subtle but appreciable differences. It really is a game of inches.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 19, 2020 23:52:44 GMT -6
I've always wondered how they achieve the air sound to a vocal. I have tried many times but can't seem to replicate it. Here is an example of what I mean by "air", on this Freya Ridings track Lost without you, virtually every word has the "air" in the studio recording which is here however when it comes to a live performance here you can hear that while her voice has the same sound/tone the "air" is not on every word or as pronounced. The air seems to be on certain works like first and last words of the line. If there is any quides online that show going from one to the other would be interested to see them! I know it’s a matter of taste, but that “air” I hear on the first video sounds like a cranked hi-shelf EQ. Not a sound that I find appealing. Sorry if it’s one of your favs, this is not meant to be insulting. It does not sound like a high-end mic C12 type of air (which I do find appealing on the right voices).
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Post by christopher on Jan 20, 2020 1:57:17 GMT -6
there has long been a trick that I’ve heard is used commonly but I’ve never had luck. You track the main vocal, you do the double and then you do the whisper track. Process the whisper track and blend that for the airy highs. The whisper track would probably have to be comp’d to match each syllable. The people I’ve asked to try didn’t sync up well enough to the lead to be usable. But maybe sometimes if the talent is there, it just works? I’m not sure they used a whisper track here, but it sounds like they could have.
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Post by bartacusad on Jan 20, 2020 6:39:13 GMT -6
Yes, this is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s a combination of factors that goes in to get this much air on a voice. One being the voice itself and two being the mic itself. I just wish there was one trick for all voices! Ha! I've always wondered how they achieve the air sound to a vocal. I have tried many times but can't seem to replicate it. Here is an example of what I mean by "air", on this Freya Ridings track Lost without you, virtually every word has the "air" in the studio recording which is here however when it comes to a live performance here you can hear that while her voice has the same sound/tone the "air" is not on every word or as pronounced. The air seems to be on certain works like first and last words of the line. If there is any quides online that show going from one to the other would be interested to see them!
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Vocal air
Jan 20, 2020 23:15:37 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Jan 20, 2020 23:15:37 GMT -6
Myself and winetree had a OMG discussion about this topic today. Perhaps a trip back in time to more proven engineering and performance technics might glean better results?
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 21, 2020 15:37:23 GMT -6
I've always wondered how they achieve the air sound to a vocal. I have tried many times but can't seem to replicate it. Here is an example of what I mean by "air", on this Freya Ridings track Lost without you, virtually every word has the "air" in the studio recording which is here however when it comes to a live performance here you can hear that while her voice has the same sound/tone the "air" is not on every word or as pronounced. The air seems to be on certain works like first and last words of the line. If there is any quides online that show going from one to the other would be interested to see them! To my ears a lot of that "air" is this particular singer's voice--she's pushing a lot of breath through the note, and that breath eq'ed gives makes for a very airy, breathy sound. Trying to make that happen with every female vocalist would be futile. There's the trick of overdubbing a whispered track if you really like the breathy sound.
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Post by theglow on Jan 22, 2020 15:50:48 GMT -6
I've always wondered how they achieve the air sound to a vocal. I have tried many times but can't seem to replicate it. Here is an example of what I mean by "air", on this Freya Ridings track Lost without you, virtually every word has the "air" in the studio recording which is here however when it comes to a live performance here you can hear that while her voice has the same sound/tone the "air" is not on every word or as pronounced. The air seems to be on certain works like first and last words of the line. If there is any quides online that show going from one to the other would be interested to see them! Interesting... I generally go to great lengths to NOT get that type of sound, especially with female vocalists... ribbon mic, dark preamp, even lowpassing! Clearly a matter of taste...
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Post by matt555 on Jan 22, 2020 17:54:51 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replies guys really interesting thoughts and some good stuff to try.
I understand this editing choice might not be to everyones taste, if I am being honest its not my favourite song either but it is a great example of what I would call "vocal air" taken to an exteeme that kind of pulls off that intimate feeling they were going for.
I would be very interested to see some examples from the guys here that have achieved this sort of sound, providing a clip of a vocal as recorded and then edited to achieve this sound, and explaining how they got there. Because I for one don't seem to be able to achieve anything like this.
Thanks, Matt
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 22, 2020 21:03:11 GMT -6
What’s your favorite trick or plugin for adding air to a vocal? I never have found the magical trick that works everytime. I’ve got a Dolby unit, Maag Eq, Slate Revival, and lots of other plugs but just haven’t nailed it yet. Probably not plugins. Most plugins probably don't have the real bandwidth. Certainly not unless you're working ast least at 96k. At 44.1/48 Nyquist will kill any "airband" effects.
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Post by mcirish on Jan 23, 2020 11:13:09 GMT -6
Early on in my mixing, I'd like to add a lot off air which could be used in place of any type of reverb. You remember the super dry in your face vocal thing... Anyway, I'm not as young as I was and I really don't trust my ears to add much above 16khz. If the mix needs that kind of lift, I will let the mastering engineer add it. I really don't want that crispy high end distortion that often gets called "air". It now seems to be a mixing fad that has seen its better day. Heck, I even use reverb again. Ha! Just my two cents.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 23, 2020 13:02:43 GMT -6
Yes, this is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s a combination of factors that goes in to get this much air on a voice. One being the voice itself and two being the mic itself. I just wish there was one trick for all voices! Ha! I've always wondered how they achieve the air sound to a vocal. I have tried many times but can't seem to replicate it. Here is an example of what I mean by "air", on this Freya Ridings track Lost without you, virtually every word has the "air" in the studio recording which is here however when it comes to a live performance here you can hear that while her voice has the same sound/tone the "air" is not on every word or as pronounced. The air seems to be on certain works like first and last words of the line. If there is any quides online that show going from one to the other would be interested to see them! True, but just saying "sing softer" is a big part of it to my ears. I have a GML 8200 and I couldn't turn the live performance to the recorded one with it, and it's considered one of the best.
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Post by seawell on Jan 28, 2020 14:53:56 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replies guys really interesting thoughts and some good stuff to try. I understand this editing choice might not be to everyones taste, if I am being honest its not my favourite song either but it is a great example of what I would call "vocal air" taken to an exteeme that kind of pulls off that intimate feeling they were going for. I would be very interested to see some examples from the guys here that have achieved this sort of sound, providing a clip of a vocal as recorded and then edited to achieve this sound, and explaining how they got there. Because I for one don't seem to be able to achieve anything like this. Thanks, Matt Hey Matt, here's a track I worked on that may be an example of the sound you're after. Give it a listen and see what you think. If it's what you have in mind, I'll be glad to further explain how we got to that sound. Vocal chain was Korby KAT(251 Capsule) > SCA N72 Preamp > Retro Sta Level > Lynx Aurora 16 converter > Pro Tools. www.dropbox.com/s/kr4sj9mwkgr352x/Nothing%20Compares_Master_1.wav?dl=0
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Post by sirthought on Jan 28, 2020 16:43:01 GMT -6
This posting from Pure mix seemed to come up in a way that fits right in here. From F. Reid Shippen's mixing video, he shows his "air" trick using an EQ and Limiter in iZotope Nectar 2. Nectar 3 is actually set up a little different, so I'm eager to test this out and see some results that just let me know what options are if the mix calls for this sort of thing.
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