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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 10, 2020 9:57:25 GMT -6
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 10, 2020 11:26:50 GMT -6
Probably because as you pointed out is $900-435 a channel vs $90-45 a channel for 500. Im talking about just the chassis of course. Thats 10x the cost
Plus it takes up 5U of space for 8 modules vs 3U for up to 11 modules.
I don't think it'll matter what people make for them, no one will buy them like people buy 500 series. It's too expensive.
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Post by porkyman on Jan 10, 2020 11:36:18 GMT -6
Probably because as you pointed out is $900-435 a channel vs $90-45 a channel for 500. Im talking about just the chassis of course. Thats 10x the cost Plus it takes up 8U of space for 8 modules vs 3U for up to 11 modules. I don't think it'll matter what people make for them, no one will buy them like people buy 500 series. It's too expensive. I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. |
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Post by porkyman on Jan 10, 2020 11:36:34 GMT -6
Probably because as you pointed out is $900-435 a channel vs $90-45 a channel for 500. Im talking about just the chassis of course. Thats 10x the cost Plus it takes up 8U of space for 8 modules vs 3U for up to 11 modules. I don't think it'll matter what people make for them, no one will buy them like people buy 500 series. It's too expensive. I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 10, 2020 12:13:56 GMT -6
Probably because as you pointed out is $900-435 a channel vs $90-45 a channel for 500. Im talking about just the chassis of course. Thats 10x the cost Plus it takes up 8U of space for 8 modules vs 3U for up to 11 modules. I don't think it'll matter what people make for them, no one will buy them like people buy 500 series. It's too expensive. I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. Id guess proprietary rights then by AMS Neve that doesn't allow other's to use the layout. Copyrighted and all that probably. |
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Post by m03 on Jan 10, 2020 12:31:02 GMT -6
I think you're looking for "80 series".
Also, there are other manufacturers of modules for that format (Heritage makes modules and racks).
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 10, 2020 13:05:37 GMT -6
Probably because as you pointed out is $900-435 a channel vs $90-45 a channel for 500. Im talking about just the chassis of course. Thats 10x the cost Plus it takes up 8U of space for 8 modules vs 3U for up to 11 modules. I don't think it'll matter what people make for them, no one will buy them like people buy 500 series. It's too expensive. I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. Price, density the fact that 500 has pretty much been adopted by everyone including Neve are pretty much the reason. Also you have to remember a lot of the affordable Neve clones are sold through MI rather than Pro Audio dealers. Ask anybody about all the confusion back when we had 500, 200, DBX 900 Aphex 9000, ADR and other modular systems about keeping everything straight was impossible. Everybody is happy with 500 as the standard nobody wants to screw the pooch. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 10, 2020 14:41:09 GMT -6
Probably because as you pointed out is $900-435 a channel vs $90-45 a channel for 500. Im talking about just the chassis of course. Thats 10x the cost Plus it takes up 8U of space for 8 modules vs 3U for up to 11 modules. I don't think it'll matter what people make for them, no one will buy them like people buy 500 series. It's too expensive. I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. This is exactly my point. Couldn't someone make a cheap rack? I'd love a rack of vertical 1081's for a reasonable price. |
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Post by Guitar on Jan 10, 2020 14:44:08 GMT -6
I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. This is exactly my point. Couldn't someone make a cheap rack? I'd love a rack of vertical 1081's for a reasonable price. Wouldn't we all, lol. I love vertical channel strips. |
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Post by m03 on Jan 10, 2020 15:26:52 GMT -6
I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. This is exactly my point. Couldn't someone make a cheap rack? I'd love a rack of vertical 1081's for a reasonable price. Buy the Heritage 8-channel rack and start designing modules around it? There would need to be motivation for more people to invest in the format, meaning someone would need to pump out some affordable modules to provide the justification necessary to trigger the sale of existing racks, which would eventually get more manufacturers interested, lowering the cost of racks due to competition and economies of scale. I don't see any of that happening though. |
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 10, 2020 17:00:17 GMT -6
Backplane is easy. Metal work is a pain.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 10, 2020 20:41:45 GMT -6
Well, I would assume that it's because the are far fewer Neve format modules tha there are API format modules. Historically API was the forst company to produce a "lunchbox" fopr their modules, which in turn engendered a lot of other companies adopting the format. Neve did no such thing. Consequently many, if not most Neve clones have not followed Neve's own module format.
Personally I'd like to se some action in the ADR/SCAMP module format, but that's not happenening either.
Market forces, my friend, market forces.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 10, 2020 22:32:35 GMT -6
You mean like this Heritage Audio Rack Frame 8?
This was our mic-pre rack fitted with a Heritage Audio Frame 8 with 2x Heritage Audio 8173's, 2x Heritage Audio 6673's, 2x Neve 33114 and 1x Neve 3115.
NOTE: The Neve's are not 80 Series modules and I had build custom adapters to connect them to the backplane connectors in the 80 Series rack.
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Post by Chad on Jan 11, 2020 12:53:05 GMT -6
80 Series = Beta
API Lunchbox = VHS
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Post by notneeson on Jan 11, 2020 13:15:40 GMT -6
Man, I miss the rack of 33114s I used to have access to. Those were just plain inspiring to cut records with.
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Post by m03 on Feb 18, 2020 20:54:42 GMT -6
You mean like this Heritage Audio Rack Frame 8?
This was our mic-pre rack fitted with a Heritage Audio Frame 8 with 2x Heritage Audio 8173's, 2x Heritage Audio 6673's, 2x Neve 33114 and 1x Neve 3115.
NOTE: The Neve's are not 80 Series modules and I had build custom adapters to connect them to the backplane connectors in the 80 Series rack.
Have any other thoughts or gotchas surrounding the Heritage 80 series racks and modules? Looks like you've been running the stuff for a while, and there isn't a whole lot of discussion about them, but what is out there from actual owners/operators seems generally positive. |
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 18, 2020 22:10:08 GMT -6
I think the question is why the hell theyre so expensive. Not really more parts and labor. Warm Stam everyone could be making 1081’s for Less than their 73’s are now (bc no psu) if someone actually made an affordable rack. Price, density the fact that 500 has pretty much been adopted by everyone including Neve are pretty much the reason. Also you have to remember a lot of the affordable Neve clones are sold through MI rather than Pro Audio dealers. Ask anybody about all the confusion back when we had 500, 200, DBX 900 Aphex 9000, ADR and other modular systems about keeping everything straight was impossible. Everybody is happy with 500 as the standard nobody wants to screw the pooch. I have ADR and old format Allison Research. No 500..... yet, anyway.
I actually like full rackmount processors unless the original versions were modules. I'm always suspicious of corners cut in scaling down a full rack unit. And if the PS goes down I don't want all my stuff failing.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 18, 2020 22:24:21 GMT -6
Well, I would assume that it's because the are far fewer Neve format modules tha there are API format modules. Historically API was the forst company to produce a "lunchbox" fopr their modules, which in turn engendered a lot of other companies adopting the format. Neve did no such thing. Consequently many, if not most Neve clones have not followed Neve's own module format.
Personally I'd like to se some action in the ADR/SCAMP module format, but that's not happenening either.
Market forces, my friend, market forces.
API was not the first, Aphex beat them with one in their proprietary format 4 slots, then after seeing people mod them for 500 series, Aphex asked API if it was OK to just sell them. API said yes and that was the first API series lunch box. |
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Post by saltyjames on Feb 19, 2020 0:11:29 GMT -6
I think API's 200 series is the future. Even smaller and more affordable. Someone needs to talk them into building a proper rack for the new sized modules though!! The 200 series used to be slimmer to fit in their big consoles. Now they are making all their module (500 and 200) the same width. But they are slow to create a rack for the new (now 500 sized width) 200 modules. They're VERY cool: apiaudio.com/product.php?id=116 |
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Post by rowmat on Feb 19, 2020 17:53:18 GMT -6
You mean like this Heritage Audio Rack Frame 8?
This was our mic-pre rack fitted with a Heritage Audio Frame 8 with 2x Heritage Audio 8173's, 2x Heritage Audio 6673's, 2x Neve 33114 and 1x Neve 3115.
NOTE: The Neve's are not 80 Series modules and I had build custom adapters to connect them to the backplane connectors in the 80 Series rack.
Have any other thoughts or gotchas surrounding the Heritage 80 series racks and modules? Looks like you've been running the stuff for a while, and there isn't a whole lot of discussion about them, but what is out there from actual owners/operators seems generally positive. Overall they have been great and were used on every session. Mostly used on kick and toms (for which they excel at) during tracking and the EQ's were used extensively during mixdown such as the 16khz stage on vocals etc.
The only issue was a shorted styrene capacitor on a 8173 which I fixed myself due to the time it would have taken to send it back for repair and the latching buttons for engaging the EQ, highpass stages etc eventually became noisy. ie crunchy when operating them.
This is typical of these kind of older unsealed switch designs which are basically identical to the Neves anyway so regular maintenance and cleaning should be a normal part of general studio operations.
The 8173's are basically a hybrid of the Neve 1073 Class A preamp stage with the EQ stage more closely reminiscent of a Neve 1081.
The 6673's also provide a comprehensive EQ stage but at different points to the 8173.
I also have several Seventh Circle Audio N72's which are based on the Neve 1073 preamp (without EQ) and, as already mentioned, several Neve 50 Series Neve Class AB modules (33114, 3115) which are more present and have slightly less heft than the class A Neves (or Heritage equivelants).
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b0b0
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Post by b0b0 on May 20, 2021 13:40:50 GMT -6
On the topic…of the 80 series 2 or 8 slot enclosures available, are there any concerns / issues with any of them? Or they all do the job?
Heritage, BAE, AMS Neve, Vintage King… anyone else?
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b0b0
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by b0b0 on May 20, 2021 13:41:01 GMT -6
On the topic…of the 80 series 2 or 8 slot enclosures available, are there any concerns / issues with any of them? Or they all do the job?
Heritage, BAE, AMS Neve, Vintage King… anyone else?
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on Aug 19, 2021 21:11:55 GMT -6
I understand these are supposed to be more desk-like, but, in terms of noteworthy componentry, how would this differ from a Stam or BAE rackmount channel strip (1073/1084 arguments aside)?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 19, 2021 21:25:44 GMT -6
I understand these are supposed to be more desk-like, but, in terms of noteworthy componentry, how would this differ from a Stam or BAE rackmount channel strip (1073/1084 arguments aside)? Same stuff just no PSU or jacks on the module. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 19, 2021 21:28:24 GMT -6
On the topic…of the 80 series 2 or 8 slot enclosures available, are there any concerns / issues with any of them? Or they all do the job? Heritage, BAE, AMS Neve, Vintage King… anyone else? Over the years lots of small shops did build to order. You have to understand an 80 series frame is custom metal work, multi pin connectors and 24v plus 48v phantom PSU. |
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