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Post by mrholmes on Jan 5, 2020 12:41:54 GMT -6
RGOs.
Some can remember that I got pair for free by my neighbor. I love them for checking the mix on a very low SPL level, and it works for me, if the mix works on the NS 10 - without thinking ugh they sound ugly - the job is done in 9 out of 10 cases.
Yesterday I did some research and my pair is nearly as old as I am - 1978. I ask myself if its about time to re foam the rubber at the woofer.
Does anyone have experience with NS10 maintenance.
My guesswork is that some recapping the crossover helps too?
Cheers Holmes.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 5, 2020 15:52:59 GMT -6
I have owned NS10s but I have never reconed those speakers in particular. I would be weary of refoaming working speakers and I have only done it on damaged speakers.
Two main issues:
1. I is hard to find the same foam surround and you are relying on the sellers word.
2. It is a fairly delicate process that will change the sound of the speaker, even a good job will. How much is cause for debate.
I would buy new drivers and swap them out if you are really worried about the driver.
ProAC are a fairly common recone job.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 5, 2020 16:01:21 GMT -6
That rubber looks fine. I wouldn't mess with it. There are people paying 4-5 digit money for the better speakers from the 1930's, and they can play fine. Leather or paper surrounds. Those lose value if substantially repaired. I imagine NS10's will cross that value threshold someday too.
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Post by winetree on Jan 5, 2020 17:26:06 GMT -6
I recapped the crossovers with some Dayton Caps. Made a big difference in clarity, depth and overall performance.
Also fused the tweeters at $110.00 apiece a 10 cent fuse is a cheap replacement.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 6, 2020 7:04:03 GMT -6
Thanks.
Will recap and let the woofers be like they are.
...
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Post by svart on Jan 6, 2020 8:38:47 GMT -6
When I was messing around with the crossovers in my NS-10's, I noticed that the inductors were vastly different in values. I used an LCR meter to adjust them to closer to ideal values. I also recapped mine with higher quality BP electrolytics and heard zero change. You have to remember that NS-10's were/are not precise and accurate speakers. They were mass-produced, cheap, bookshelf speakers. No two of them are alike and the drivers themselves are not very good. The driver's native frequency response is horribly ragged and non-linear. A simple 2-way crossover with 2 poles each is not going to fix these issues. They've just become specialty mixing speakers due to that crazy 1k-2k peak they have that forces you to build a smiley-face EQ curve into your mixes. Also, do NS-10's have foam surrounds? I'm pretty sure mine have treated fabric surrounds, not foam. Treated fabric never goes bad.  |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011 
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Post by ericn on Jan 6, 2020 10:09:34 GMT -6
When I was messing around with the crossovers in my NS-10's, I noticed that the inductors were vastly different in values. I used an LCR meter to adjust them to closer to ideal values. I also recapped mine with higher quality BP electrolytics and heard zero change. You have to remember that NS-10's were/are not precise and accurate speakers. They were mass-produced, cheap, bookshelf speakers. No two of them are alike and the drivers themselves are not very good. The driver's native frequency response is horribly ragged and non-linear. A simple 2-way crossover with 2 poles each is not going to fix these issues. They've just become specialty mixing speakers due to that crazy 1k-2k peak they have that forces you to build a smiley-face EQ curve into your mixes. Also, do NS-10's have foam surrounds? I'm pretty sure mine have treated fabric surrounds, not foam. Treated fabric never goes bad. What he said ! But if your going to do the crossover caps I wouldn’t go to wild, I would talk to the guys at Madisound and see if they have done any reasonable priced rebuilds. Now If your going to open these things up a nice bead of acoustical caulk along all the joints of the inside and replacing the stupid connector cup with a piece of plywood with some decent binding posts would give you a true sealed cabinet and show what the lowend should be ! |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 6, 2020 10:15:24 GMT -6
I've recapped 3 crossovers now using films in place of the original electrolytics, and all have had obvious improvements in perceived clarity. It may be something other than 'clarity', but that's the impression.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 6, 2020 10:44:58 GMT -6
I've recapped 3 crossovers now using films in place of the original electrolytics, and all have had obvious improvements in perceived clarity. It may be something other than 'clarity', but that's the impression. One thing to always be careful of is the fact that high voltage caps always have a lower tolerance, so you have to be careful. Sometimes a manufacturers consist “error” in value makes it work. Tuning a passive crossover is a time consuming pain in the ass. In fact I often wonder if one of the reasons for all the active biamped monitors using generic plate amps with DSP is how much easier it is to tune and get the crossover right as well as the consistency. Throw in the fact that you can correct for driver inconsistencies and it’s just to easy. I have a BSS analog crossover and a Adcom that really need to have JW do his magic on, but I keep lusting over XTA and Clair / Lake / Dolby Digital Driverack boxes with AES I/O and think with some decent conversion ( not that the conversion in either box is bad). |
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 6, 2020 12:59:04 GMT -6
I've recapped 3 crossovers now using films in place of the original electrolytics, and all have had obvious improvements in perceived clarity. It may be something other than 'clarity', but that's the impression. As a general rule electrolytics sound noticeably crappy in crossover circuits and an upgrade to film caps is pretty much always worthwhile. Unless for some reason you actually need crappy - we are talking about NS-10s, after all! |
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Post by EmRR on Jan 6, 2020 13:07:01 GMT -6
I've recapped 3 crossovers now using films in place of the original electrolytics, and all have had obvious improvements in perceived clarity. It may be something other than 'clarity', but that's the impression. As a general rule electrolytics sound noticeably crappy in crossover circuits and an upgrade to film caps is pretty much always worthwhile. Unless for some reason you actually need crappy - we are talking about NS-10s, after all! It always feels like lower distortion.....so you can better hear the other distortions..... |
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 6, 2020 20:25:44 GMT -6
As a general rule electrolytics sound noticeably crappy in crossover circuits and an upgrade to film caps is pretty much always worthwhile. Unless for some reason you actually need crappy - we are talking about NS-10s, after all! It always feels like lower distortion.....so you can better hear the other distortions..... FEELS like lower distortion?
Sure - because it IS lower distortion. If you have access to a Sound Technology analyzer it's really easy to measure.
I don't trust distortion analyzer programs/plugins that run on PCs because there are always limits to digital conversion.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 6, 2020 20:39:55 GMT -6
They weren't all THAT cheap!
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