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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 26, 2019 12:53:05 GMT -6
Interesting evolution of some live recording, starting out with a Ampex MX10. I always liked these mixers but parts of it, mainly the output section bothered me. This one was rebuilt but the input cricuit pretty much the same, same Beyer input transformers. After the summing, the output amps have been changed to EMI redd47 amps but with half of a 12BH7 after the EF86 and then Triad output transformers. There really wasn't enough room with the triad transformers and output caps to install a new tube socket for two 6DJ8's, so the 12BH7 was used. feedback was set to "high" for the gain on these amps, and they really sound great. Eventually the line inputs were changed to separate inputs so they could be used along with the 4 mic inputs. I didn't really use them as line inputs, most of the sessions are jazz with no PA, so I have a little box containing two more ampex input mix amps but with Newcomb transformers. These feed into the line inputs but really all the is is a unbalanced input into the same summing resistors, so these work well with the mic amps being the same circuits as the internal amps, but can be weird for actual line inputs, but I wasn't using it for that anyway.
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Post by jamiesego on Dec 26, 2019 13:21:35 GMT -6
I would love to hear this!
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 26, 2019 13:22:46 GMT -6
I would love to hear this! There's some sessions coming out soon, I'll let you know!
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 26, 2019 13:25:59 GMT -6
Here are the 2 extra preamps for a six input session
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 26, 2019 17:51:04 GMT -6
That's a beautiful little setup ! Very cool.
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 26, 2019 19:13:58 GMT -6
That's a beautiful little setup ! Very cool. Thank you!
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,971
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2019 20:08:54 GMT -6
Pretty cool setup, but I look at it and think I will never go back again !
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 26, 2019 21:41:55 GMT -6
Pretty cool setup, but I look at it and think I will never go back again ! I’m never going back after using this!
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Post by jamiesego on Dec 26, 2019 22:36:05 GMT -6
So you’re Bryce Gonzales right? I’ve seen this setup on Instagram.
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 26, 2019 22:42:09 GMT -6
So you’re Bryce Gonzales right? I’ve been seeing this setup on Instagram. That’s my name!
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Post by jamiesego on Dec 26, 2019 22:50:46 GMT -6
Welcome! A BG2 is high on my list for 2020.
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 26, 2019 23:21:27 GMT -6
Welcome! A BG2 is high on my list for 2020. Thank you! And that’s awesome to hear! Hopefully I’ll be making yours soon!
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,971
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Post by ericn on Dec 27, 2019 8:25:06 GMT -6
Bryce welcome to our little corner of the internet! I started this journey in an old broadcast studio with 2 MX10’s a 440-8 and 440-2. I’ll admit they taught me a lot about mic choice position and patching but while the limiting factor was probably me, moving to a Tascam Model 5 for me was a giant step forward having a basic EQ, Solo and better routing. The Journey from there to Tangent 1202 and Soundcraft 200B ( the 2 consoles I’ll admit to having some nostalgic yearning for). That old Ampex setup probably taught me more than anything else, but they also taught me that I’m a console guy workflow wise, I know I can do better with the feature set, but I admire anybody who in this world has the guts to step back and make those old beasts work for them.
Still I’m the guy who always keeps some kind of basic mixer as a teaching tool because of how it forces you to learn the basics and not lean on all the technology.
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 27, 2019 9:51:05 GMT -6
Bryce welcome to our little corner of the internet! I started this journey in an old broadcast studio with 2 MX10’s a 440-8 and 440-2. I’ll admit they taught me a lot about mic choice position and patching but while the limiting factor was probably me, moving to a Tascam Model 5 for me was a giant step forward having a basic EQ, Solo and better routing. The Journey from there to Tangent 1202 and Soundcraft 200B ( the 2 consoles I’ll admit to having some nostalgic yearning for). That old Ampex setup probably taught me more than anything else, but they also taught me that I’m a console guy workflow wise, I know I can do better with the feature set, but I admire anybody who in this world has the guts to step back and make those old beasts work for them. Still I’m the guy who always keeps some kind of basic mixer as a teaching tool because of how it forces you to learn the basics and not lean on all the technology. That’s really interesting, it’s the most limited mixer I’ve ever used. I actually recently moved on from the ampex, it did sound great but that large 6 space rack with the compressors was heavy and I got tired of carrying it around. It was nice to put the Nagra in one case and everything else in the back of the rack, but not even having pads or high pass was getting annoying. I was going to put 5 way slider switches in the Ampex for panning, but for the live stuff I actually didn’t mind the hard panning with the bleed you get anyways. But, I recently moved on to a more compact set up, I custom mixer that is basically the same thing but in a 14” wide by about 16” deep and only 5” tall. 4 mic channels with 2 line inputs (I can use my same external 2 channels of extra preamps) same compressors but sharing attach and release like a 1178, but a BG1 Stereo, a few extra setting points. Routing switches patch the compressors into the bus outputs or not. 14 tubes total. It has the same variable input pad like the Delta 4-7 preamps and the 5 way panning with a 3/4 in between the hard panning, but I still just use left or right, also pentode or triode swatches on the preamps. I’ve only used this new mixer a few times but the difference is noticeable to say the least. It has 4 UTC A11’s in the inputs, I think that is making a big difference over those little beyers in the Ampex.
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 27, 2019 10:20:39 GMT -6
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Post by jamiesego on Dec 27, 2019 10:40:39 GMT -6
That is so cool!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 27, 2019 10:44:54 GMT -6
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 27, 2019 11:03:16 GMT -6
Yep, I had the chassis, actually have several, new old stock from the 70's still in boxes. Then I just drilled out the front panel and screen print my graphics on after.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,971
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Post by ericn on Dec 27, 2019 11:03:54 GMT -6
Bryce welcome to our little corner of the internet! I started this journey in an old broadcast studio with 2 MX10’s a 440-8 and 440-2. I’ll admit they taught me a lot about mic choice position and patching but while the limiting factor was probably me, moving to a Tascam Model 5 for me was a giant step forward having a basic EQ, Solo and better routing. The Journey from there to Tangent 1202 and Soundcraft 200B ( the 2 consoles I’ll admit to having some nostalgic yearning for). That old Ampex setup probably taught me more than anything else, but they also taught me that I’m a console guy workflow wise, I know I can do better with the feature set, but I admire anybody who in this world has the guts to step back and make those old beasts work for them. Still I’m the guy who always keeps some kind of basic mixer as a teaching tool because of how it forces you to learn the basics and not lean on all the technology. That’s really interesting, it’s the most limited mixer I’ve ever used. I actually recently moved on from the ampex, it did sound great but that large 6 space rack with the compressors was heavy and I got tired of carrying it around. It was nice to put the Nagra in one case and everything else in the back of the rack, but not even having pads or high pass was getting annoying. I was going to put 5 way slider switches in the Ampex for panning, but for the live stuff I actually didn’t mind the hard panning with the bleed you get anyways. But, I recently moved on to a more compact set up, I custom mixer that is basically the same thing but in a 14” wide by about 16” deep and only 5” tall. 4 mic channels with 2 line inputs (I can use my same external 2 channels of extra preamps) same compressors but sharing attach and release like a 1178, but a BG1 Stereo, a few extra setting points. Routing switches patch the compressors into the bus outputs or not. 14 tubes total. It has the same variable input pad like the Delta 4-7 preamps and the 5 way panning with a 3/4 in between the hard panning, but I still just use left or right, also pentode or triode swatches on the preamps. I’ve only used this new mixer a few times but the difference is noticeable to say the least. It has 4 UTC A11’s in the inputs, I think that is making a big difference over those little beyers in the Ampex. That is one cool little build, oh those little Beyer transformers, between those and the little Neutrik’s I learned that iron is not always the secret sauce to sonic bliss. They are a great tool to teach us all how to control the gain before those things over saturate ! Please bring us more cool tools !!
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 27, 2019 11:10:15 GMT -6
That’s really interesting, it’s the most limited mixer I’ve ever used. I actually recently moved on from the ampex, it did sound great but that large 6 space rack with the compressors was heavy and I got tired of carrying it around. It was nice to put the Nagra in one case and everything else in the back of the rack, but not even having pads or high pass was getting annoying. I was going to put 5 way slider switches in the Ampex for panning, but for the live stuff I actually didn’t mind the hard panning with the bleed you get anyways. But, I recently moved on to a more compact set up, I custom mixer that is basically the same thing but in a 14” wide by about 16” deep and only 5” tall. 4 mic channels with 2 line inputs (I can use my same external 2 channels of extra preamps) same compressors but sharing attach and release like a 1178, but a BG1 Stereo, a few extra setting points. Routing switches patch the compressors into the bus outputs or not. 14 tubes total. It has the same variable input pad like the Delta 4-7 preamps and the 5 way panning with a 3/4 in between the hard panning, but I still just use left or right, also pentode or triode swatches on the preamps. I’ve only used this new mixer a few times but the difference is noticeable to say the least. It has 4 UTC A11’s in the inputs, I think that is making a big difference over those little beyers in the Ampex. That is one cool little build, oh those little Beyer transformers, between those and the little Neutrik’s I learned that iron is not always the secret sauce to sonic bliss. They are a great tool to teach us all how to control the gain before those things over saturate ! Please bring us more cool tools !! People seem to really give those little Beyers a lot of doubt, and I get it... but after I put in the full preamps in the output, I got some really great recordings out of it, full low end and all. The new mixer is a different animal all together though, might be UTC's in the input or just more robust power and build. One thing I kept on the Ampex was the 22k carbon resistors going into the EF86 grids, the new mixer felt like a blanket being pulled off the speakers, I wonder if the 22k's have something to do with it more than the Beyers.
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Post by jamiesego on Dec 27, 2019 11:16:29 GMT -6
I can’t wait to hear the results. One of my original goals when I got into recording was to have a little four track setup like this and find some Nuggets style garage rock to record.
What kind of mics are you using with this rig?
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 27, 2019 11:34:14 GMT -6
I can’t wait to hear the results. One of my original goals when I got into recording was to have a little four track setup like this and find some Nuggets style garage rock to record. What kind of mics are you using with this rig? there are some sessions coming out soon, I really only record live jazz, but some other stuff. I've been using old EV mics, mainly RE16's, RE10's and some other ones like those. I used some Beyers that I really liked, 201 and 160's. I even tried C12 VR's, 4 of them with the old Ampex mixer, but they didn't work that well, just too much information and too wide, picked up too much and really made my panning less effective just because there was so much bleed. Also, I'm always trying to get less bar ambiant noise, the EV's seem to zone right into what they are pointed at. would love to make a 4 or 6 by 4 output mixer for something like a 4 track set up you are talking about! maybe a 8 channel, 4 mic/line with 4 line only for monitoring/mixing.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,971
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Post by ericn on Dec 27, 2019 11:43:08 GMT -6
I can’t wait to hear the results. One of my original goals when I got into recording was to have a little four track setup like this and find some Nuggets style garage rock to record. What kind of mics are you using with this rig? there are some sessions coming out soon, I really only record live jazz, but some other stuff. I've been using old EV mics, mainly RE16's, RE10's and some other ones like those. I used some Beyers that I really liked, 201 and 160's. I even tried C12 VR's, 4 of them with the old Ampex mixer, but they didn't work that well, just too much information and too wide, picked up too much and really made my panning less effective just because there was so much bleed. Also, I'm always trying to get less bar ambiant noise, the EV's seem to zone right into what they are pointed at. would love to make a 4 or 6 by 4 output mixer for something like a 4 track set up you are talking about! maybe a 8 channel, 4 mic/line with 4 line only for monitoring/mixing. I’ll admit there was a certain magic of the Ampex and EV dynamics. For me it was always the way you could get this great full lowend and if you turned away those Beyers would go full distortion, it was almost like working in digital. The Neutrik’s are even worse, first time I ever liked the sound better without a transformer was when I pulled a Neutrik out of a DDA channel, my god suddenly I had headroom!
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 27, 2019 12:28:48 GMT -6
Yeah I agree, there is something really interesting about those EV mics.
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Post by dukezeibert on Dec 27, 2019 13:02:07 GMT -6
I am working on a little expansion mixer that will plug into the main one for larger sessions, this will have 4 more identical mic channels, but with Triad A11j input transformers, and two real balanced line input channels with Cinemag input transformers. With only 4 EF86's, the main power supply (powered by a Marshall 100 watt power transformer, just what I had on hand) has enough power to run this so I can make a multi pin XLR to connect it. The only thing is I need one more Triad A11j... anyone have one they are willing to sell??
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