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Post by lcr on Mar 8, 2014 12:27:44 GMT -6
Ive read where OSX firewire connection fluctuates latency. This would be a problem because after pinging or calculating the latency of the external hardware(depending on the DAW of choice) this time shifts slightly creating issues.
Anybody have success using hardware fx with the UA Apollo connected firewire 800 OSX with Pro Tools , or any other daw?
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Post by popmann on Mar 8, 2014 15:07:08 GMT -6
Unless they've changed something since release, UA said the Apollo would not support the use of hardware inserts/compensation. I never understood how one could make that call, since that's on the DAW side and not the interface, but maybe that's the reason.
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Post by lcr on Mar 9, 2014 8:09:17 GMT -6
Unless they've changed something since release, UA said the Apollo would not support the use of hardware inserts/compensation. I never understood how one could make that call, since that's on the DAW side and not the interface, but maybe that's the reason. I tried with a MR816 once and couldn't get a solid latency calculation in PT10 at the time. I was considering running a few hardware FX and was hoping maybe it was magically resolved. I believe I also tried Cubase and Studio One with the MR816, both DAW's ping the loop of the hardware and adjust to the calculation. If memory serves, when revisiting(rebooting) the session, the hardware would be out of phase. I wonder if OSX will ever fix this. I think Logic has a external hardware FX function including ping, one would think it would be resolved because of this. Again, i think this is a firewire problem. I like the Apollo really don't wanna change interfaces. Although regarding fixing this, Apples response would probably be that firewire is old technology, which makes me wonder if OSX has a solid latency with thunderbolt. I remember reading that Pro Tools HDX and HD native cards function correctly, I wanna say that I read other PCIex based systems functioned correctly under OSX. |
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Post by nico on Mar 18, 2014 11:30:15 GMT -6
lcr : I think you might be right: I have had some hair turn grey over the last years with OSX/FW & OTB processing as I haven't been able to replicate results w/o latency time after time. Although not with UA Appollo thought I'd share this info : I've done latency tests under OSX 10.6.8 with Logic Pro, with a vast array of different situations: sessions w/o plugins, sessions with heavy plugs, sessions without audio, with audio, with aux busses with and w/o inserts, different buffer ranges, sizes, compensating with sample calculations sending click tracks out and back in, even buying a latency compensator plugin that doesn't work. The ping function with the I/O plugin in Logic is everything but accurate. Trust me, I've lost hours trying to figure out by testing how the hell to get it to work, and have no concluding info regarding repeatability with succes. Two best options: do a session-specific roundtrip with a clicktrack ( as different sessions yield different results when using plugs/busses ), then enter the value of delay in the compensation options, and be done with it unless you will add other plugs and busses then you might have to recalculate. The last option that I use, just do a roundtrip of a few bars with your gear in bypass ( a compressor might change the shape of the displayed waveform so you cannot recognize and align ), align the recorded audio and write down the delay in samples, process your tracks, delay them by the number you just calculated. done......well I know this sucks and shouldn't happen...have a Metric Halo 2882 here with rocksolid drivers and use, so it's definitely not the hardware....didn't try with PCIe or USB though, might be better.... one last thing with Logic Pro 9 and outboard: sometimes it's impossible to exactly sample-align the new audio with the one already recorded, meaning intersample stuff just before or after grrrrr....although I cannot hear the difference at such minute zooming detail, it still messes with my brain not being able to see those tracks perfectly aligned....need to try still with Reaper to see if it's possible to obtain a set&forget setup, best of luck and patience  !
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Post by lcr on Mar 18, 2014 13:21:51 GMT -6
lcr : I think you might be right: I have had some hair turn grey over the last years with OSX/FW & OTB processing as I haven't been able to replicate results w/o latency time after time. Although not with UA Appollo thought I'd share this info : I've done latency tests under OSX 10.6.8 with Logic Pro, with a vast array of different situations: sessions w/o plugins, sessions with heavy plugs, sessions without audio, with audio, with aux busses with and w/o inserts, different buffer ranges, sizes, compensating with sample calculations sending click tracks out and back in, even buying a latency compensator plugin that doesn't work. The ping function with the I/O plugin in Logic is everything but accurate. Trust me, I've lost hours trying to figure out by testing how the hell to get it to work, and have no concluding info regarding repeatability with succes. Two best options: do a session-specific roundtrip with a clicktrack ( as different sessions yield different results when using plugs/busses ), then enter the value of delay in the compensation options, and be done with it unless you will add other plugs and busses then you might have to recalculate. The last option that I use, just do a roundtrip of a few bars with your gear in bypass ( a compressor might change the shape of the displayed waveform so you cannot recognize and align ), align the recorded audio and write down the delay in samples, process your tracks, delay them by the number you just calculated. done......well I know this sucks and shouldn't happen...have a Metric Halo 2882 here with rocksolid drivers and use, so it's definitely not the hardware....didn't try with PCIe or USB though, might be better.... one last thing with Logic Pro 9 and outboard: sometimes it's impossible to exactly sample-align the new audio with the one already recorded, meaning intersample stuff just before or after grrrrr....although I cannot hear the difference at such minute zooming detail, it still messes with my brain not being able to see those tracks perfectly aligned....need to try still with Reaper to see if it's possible to obtain a set&forget setup, best of luck and patience ! Oh its def. an OSX issue. I wasted much time trying to get this to work properly in PT10, Cubase 6, and Studio One 2. Your suggestion of using a delay plugin will not work. If you save and reboot, the value of required latency will change. I've read this is a dedicated firewire issue in OSX. If possible(if you are interested), try USB and see if it works. Where I read others confirming this they blamed firewire only and stated all PT HD systems(PCIe based systems) were rock solid, it would be interesting to see if PCIe and USB function correctly. |
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Post by nico on Mar 18, 2014 17:24:40 GMT -6
You're right, that's exactly what happened! unfortunately I don't have a usb interface or pcie.....although I might just get a used one to try the damn thing, it really is frustrating, a spontaneity/workflow killer and shouldn't happen in this day and age, not with the processing power and constant evolutions, you'd think they might want to have this major issue fixed as a priority, but no.....I am about to upgrade the studio with a Metric Halo ULN-8 combo with 2882, although if this firewire stuff isn't resolved I might have to end my longlasting stable and superb experience with Metric Halo interfaces.....unless they release that announced improved USB chip in their products... ( like RME and now Antelope Zen ) which could then solve this latency stuff, but will have to try with Reaper and firewire soon, I subscribed to this thread in order for whenever I can do the tes and share results
best
Nico
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 18, 2014 17:33:51 GMT -6
Can't you just print the track and then nudge it to line up with the original?
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Post by lcr on Mar 19, 2014 4:44:38 GMT -6
Can't you just print the track and then nudge it to line up with the original? Yes, but I am lazy. |
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Post by nico on Mar 19, 2014 17:01:18 GMT -6
Can't you just print the track and then nudge it to line up with the original? Yes, but I am lazy. Haha! nothing beats the truth. never |
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