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Post by 000 on Oct 20, 2019 12:57:49 GMT -6
I’m hoping you guys can help me out with this - has had me scratching my head for the last few hours.
I’m currently setting up a new patchbay to accommodate my recently acquired Orion 32+ Gen 3.
The way I have it configured is two half normalled bays - one on top of each other. I have converter out on top - processor underneath - processor out on top - converter in underneath. So a column of four cables out/in and out/in. This makes the most sense to me as it’s essentially neat little channels down the row.
Here’s where things get weird:
After wiring everything up I noticed one “channel” was completely lacking all bass - (interestingly enough it was my ADG). Not going to lie I’ve been incorporating cables that haven’t been used in a while (I know) so my first thought was to start there. I simply swapped cables with the unit above it (effective in a different “channel” now) - and voila - bass was back - it’s not the ADG - great. No problem - swap the cables out and be done. So I changed the cabling going in and out of the ADG channel and the problem was still there. Ugh.
I next wanted to quickly check the DB25 into the converter so instead of unplugging things - I routed audio out to another processor and patched the output of the processor to the offending channels converter input - and voila bass was back again. I tried coming out of the offending channels converter output into that same processor and yet again eveything sounded fine.
So now that I know it’s not the converters or the cabling in the back. It’s probably a bad “channel” on the patch bay. So I took an entire working “channel” and moved it into the offending part of the patchbay - and the problem wasn’t there.
So now I’m super confused and hope that one of you may have some advice as to what could be going on.
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Post by mulmany on Oct 20, 2019 14:27:35 GMT -6
What kind of bays? Used/new?
Have you put a DMM on it and made sure that the normals are switching correctly, no shorts, or the polarity reversed?
I used a galaxy cricket to check my bays and wiring. Provides continuity and polarity checking.
Did you try hard patching without using the normals?
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Post by 000 on Oct 20, 2019 14:56:08 GMT -6
What kind of bays? Used/new? Have you put a DMM on it and made sure that the normals are switching correctly, no shorts, or the polarity reversed? I used a galaxy cricket to check my bays and wiring. Provides continuity and polarity checking. Did you try hard patching without using the normals? Hard patching within the same channel results in the same problem. Hard patching from another channel is perfectly fine. Haven’t checked with a multimeter yet. They’re Samson s-patch plus which I’ve used for years with no problems - but would be willing to invest in something nicer if that’s the ticket. |
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Post by 000 on Oct 20, 2019 15:13:15 GMT -6
What kind of bays? Used/new? Have you put a DMM on it and made sure that the normals are switching correctly, no shorts, or the polarity reversed? I used a galaxy cricket to check my bays and wiring. Provides continuity and polarity checking. Did you try hard patching without using the normals? Hard patching within the same channel results in the same problem. Hard patching from another channel is perfectly fine. Haven’t checked with a multimeter yet. They’re Samson s-patch plus which I’ve used for years with no problems - but would be willing to invest in something nicer if that’s the ticket. Also noticed that the problem goes away in the offending channel if anything is plugged into the patchbay processor out into an adjacent converter patch point - which definitely leads me to believe there is something afoul with this thing. |
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Post by stormymondays on Oct 20, 2019 15:54:48 GMT -6
I have two of these. Sometimes you have to rotate the patch cords on the front of the unit so they make proper contact. Something to do with slightly different widths of jack plugs. It’s never happened with the back connections.
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Post by bigfurry on Oct 20, 2019 17:20:54 GMT -6
Your question got me to stop lurking and get off my butt and sign up! I also have an antelope 32+ (tho gen 2) and the Samson s plus patch bays. Ever since swapping from my old crappy rean patch bays I’ve been dealing with the same exact problem. I am devoting tomorrow to figuring what the heck is going on. I’ve invited another engineer over to help, because I’m afraid I’m starting to lose perspective.
I will be trying all inputs on the various normal, half normal, and T settings, different cables, trs, ts, and anything else I can think of. I believe I have had assorted luck depending on if I connect to a piece w transformer ins or not, but I might well be too deep in to see the obvious.
I will report back- please let me know what you find, and I will gladly try anyone’s advice! It’s slowing my work down to a crawl.
Thanks all,
Sean aka Bigfurry
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Post by svart on Oct 20, 2019 17:34:32 GMT -6
What's an ADG?
If you don't terminate both the tip and ring of a transformer input you'll usually get no bass, and a much lower signal. If your bay is half normaled, but only for TS operation this could be your problem.
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Post by bigfurry on Oct 20, 2019 17:41:25 GMT -6
What's an ADG? If you don't terminate both the tip and ring of a transformer input you'll usually get no bass, and a much lower signal. If your bay is half normaled, but only for TS operation this could be your problem. Svart, You got me thinking, and I went to the “purple” site and there was a thread about the 32+ being “impedance balance” not actively balanced. That doesn’t sound so good to me. I don’t want to post a link to it for fear of a real gear online faux pas, but apparently that means there’s no signal on the cold pole, which would lead to what you’re describing possibly? |
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Post by 000 on Oct 20, 2019 17:54:38 GMT -6
What's an ADG? If you don't terminate both the tip and ring of a transformer input you'll usually get no bass, and a much lower signal. If your bay is half normaled, but only for TS operation this could be your problem. Stam 1176 clone. I’ve taken a much needed break for the night - but I’m wondering if the DB25 cable not properly seated or an issue with pins could cause this? I’ve moved the same compressor to a different channel and it works fine. This leads me to believe it’s not a system wide issue. |
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Post by bigfurry on Oct 20, 2019 18:57:29 GMT -6
I’ve been suspecting my db25 cables as well. I’ll try reseating them tomorrow
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Post by bigfurry on Oct 21, 2019 8:03:11 GMT -6
I have to report back. I found my problem, and I can’t decide if I should celebrate or scream...
I had custom labels made for the patchbay that cover the entire face with holes cut out for the jack field and switches. They are super thin, like a piece of paper or thinner.
In spots the holes were slightly off center, and interfered with the contact of the patch cables to the face of the unit. This label is like 1/64” thick.
I removed the labels, and problem solved.
Thanks to all for their thoughts, and I’m very glad I finally got off my butt and got a login. I’ve read a lot here and appreciate the low signal to noise ratio and wisdom. Recognize more then a few names too.
Thanks again.
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Post by svart on Oct 21, 2019 8:12:53 GMT -6
What's an ADG? If you don't terminate both the tip and ring of a transformer input you'll usually get no bass, and a much lower signal. If your bay is half normaled, but only for TS operation this could be your problem. Svart, You got me thinking, and I went to the “purple” site and there was a thread about the 32+ being “impedance balance” not actively balanced. That doesn’t sound so good to me. I don’t want to post a link to it for fear of a real gear online faux pas, but apparently that means there’s no signal on the cold pole, which would lead to what you’re describing possibly? "Impedance balanced" means that it uses a connector with +, - and ground connections, but the - connection only connects to a resistor with a value equal to the input impedance of the + input. It's a compromise between fully differential inputs and single-ended inputs that allows some noise reduction, but not to the degree of a fully differential signal, but doesn't ground out the - signal directly which can help electronic drivers since they aren't driving dead shorts. |
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Post by bigfurry on Oct 21, 2019 8:16:03 GMT -6
I will add I also tightened the front face plate which probably will do more to make sure of a snug fit, but that was done after the sticker was removed. I need to only change one thing at a time next studio upgrade...
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