|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Sept 18, 2019 12:51:51 GMT -6
Anyone who has had enough conversations with me here should have figured out a few things by now;
1) I am obsessed with microphones, how each has their own vibe and color, and that I want them all....
2) As a performer my idol is Mario Lanza.
From the beginning of my career comparisons were made between myself and Lanza and I would be lying if I didn't admit to how much he became an inspiration to me as my voice developed. Because of that association I have been able to connect to his family and other family friends, get access to old forgotten photos, even to his studio ledgers (Mostly just the performer's list and location). As my obsession with recording grew so did my curiosity about how Mario's voice was captured.
Microphones are the easy part. There are tons of photos and they are pretty consistent. At MGM for his films he used a Western Electric RA1142, the sister microphone to the Altec/Western Electric 639.
"The Great Caruso"
At RCA for his Red Seal Albums he used the RCA 44. He also used it for his radio show recordings at NBC.
What I'm unsure of is what kind of desk he would have been recorded on. What kind of tape machine, etc. His MGM recordings would have been done at the MGM lot (1949-1954). For his RCA recordings in LA the location given for most of his big hits, including "Be My Love" (1950), was Republic-Hollywood. During his early career in NY he recorded at the Manhattan Center, most likely the Hammerstein Opera House (now Hammerstein Ballroom).
I was wondering if any of the RGO hive mind here knew anything about those old locations. There seems to be little about RCA's recording facilities prior to them opening their now famous Vine St. location.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 18, 2019 13:00:31 GMT -6
I wonder how much Wes Dooley might know about this. I'm sure anything 44 related, he'll know a lot about. Great thread idea Vincent. Kudos for the efforts made too. Thanks, Chris P.S. "All" microphones? Hey, save some for us!  |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Sept 18, 2019 15:47:39 GMT -6
There's a lot of info about this in my archives....when I'll have time to go through it is another question......
There's an RCA Recording Manual available online, that's representative of what he may have encountered in an RCA plant. All Photophone stuff, not frequently seen on the collectors market, pretty expensive for what it is. I've got original transformers for the preamps to clone sometime, but I won't pay what the preamps themselves cost when they do show up. Those preamps had a circuit board update that kept the transformers and replaced the circuit with something very similar to the BA-1A.
MGM was a WE plant for a long time.
The RCA Photophone line update in 1936 caused some WE plants to drop WE and switch to RCA, whether that affected anything in relation, I don't know.
I have the feeling a 44-BX sounds better when it's on a Starbird stand like that......
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 18, 2019 20:52:47 GMT -6
BTW ultimately my "Singing Idol" (for my voice) is... Frank Sinatra. So the 44 (Columbia years) and U47 (Capitol) are always in the back of my mind. Honorable mention goes to the Sony C37a, that Frank sometimes used instead, at Capitol. I'm very thankful of AEA keeping the "ribbon thang" going. Also for Heiserman's and Tonelux's work in making the U47 tube and C37 tube mic's respectively, more affordable. Chris P.S. Am going to do more "Lanza listening".and watching Good enough for Vincent, (more than!) good enough for me. |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Sept 18, 2019 21:59:49 GMT -6
P.S. Am going to do more "Lanza listening".and watching Good enough for Vincent, (more than!) good enough for me. Here's a start:
and my own interpretation:
But seriously, take a listen to some of his grand opera. It's fantastic.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 18, 2019 22:06:00 GMT -6
Will do. Thanks so much Vincent. Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Sept 18, 2019 22:08:07 GMT -6
Will do. Thanks so much Vincent. Chris If you can handle the cheesiness of the 1950 musical vibe "The Great Caruso" is a really wonderful film, even if it's factually off. His singing is incredible in it. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 18, 2019 22:52:25 GMT -6
Neither rain, sleet, nor cheesiness shall deter me! Chris |
|
|
|
Post by keymod on Sept 20, 2019 14:08:15 GMT -6
How do you suppose he was hearing playback &/or monitoring in that Starbird photo? Obviously a booth of some sort.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Sept 20, 2019 16:05:06 GMT -6
RCA and Ampex both made a lot of desks back in those days didn't they?
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Sept 20, 2019 17:50:05 GMT -6
How do you suppose he was hearing playback &/or monitoring in that Starbird photo? Obviously a booth of some sort. He was in the same room with the orchestra. He didn’t do any overdub type recording till the very end of his career, I think only his last album or two starting with “The Vagabond King.” His recordings were all mostly single takes. Often his first takes. His platinum hit above, “Be My Love” was his first and only take. His Mario Lanza Show version has a longer high C, but he punched it. It’s an easy punch as the orchestra literally drops out and lets him sing it alone before coming in for the ending. Be My Love with the punches high C. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Sept 20, 2019 20:18:34 GMT -6
RCA and Ampex both made a lot of desks back in those days didn't they? Desks or decks? Both made decks. People don't generally have much regard for the RCA tape transports, though a few people defend them. Ampex didn't make desks. RCA made stock and custom desks, anything on this level was most likely a custom passive desk with outboard type amps, Photophone or broadcast catalog RCA from the DeLuxe, Standard, or Economy lines, which were mostly different in cosmetics rather than circuit. WE of that era was likely 120 or 129 preamps, or an RA-# Westrex derivative. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Sept 21, 2019 10:01:32 GMT -6
EmRR what about Les Paul? Were all his custom made?> Didn't he use an Ampex desk at one point?    Same era . . . what do you all think?
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Sept 21, 2019 10:21:28 GMT -6
The middle desk is an RCA BC-2B, maybe the only non-custom desk he had. Like mine, with all six preamp slots filled.
I haven't seen the other one, though it looks like countless other RCA custom or Langevin custom, and looks fairly similar to many of the RCA Custom examples in the catalogs. Langevin/WE type knobs might indicate Langevin, but I think you could specify the RCA type knob also, given it was such a standard.
I've never heard of an Ampex desk. There are modular preamps for movie theater playback installs, that's the closest thing I've seen.
I know of Altec, Collins, Gates, General Electric, Langevin, Raytheon, and Western Electric desks in that era. You have the first UA desks, which were so few in number they almost count as custom compared to all those others.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Sept 21, 2019 17:28:22 GMT -6
EmRR Thanks! That was the kind of informed answer I was hoping for! Les was a genius but also famous for misinformation - I think he got a kick out of doing that
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Sept 21, 2019 18:06:28 GMT -6
Thanks! That was the kind of informed answer I was hoping for! Les was a genius but also famous for misinformation - I think he got a kick out of doing that Sure thing! Oh yeah, he twisted up the narrative all the time. I found a 1930's example of him playing his own press agent, getting a one page article in a mag about how he'd wired up the whole apartment building for sound. He wasn't even a known quantity at that point. Multi-tracking was invented in Hollywood in the 1930's. Doing it on a tape machine later may have been new, but the idea wasn't. I found an early 1950's listing for a 24 track tape head (instrumentation), so that wasn't new either. |
|
