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Post by adamjbrass on Sept 5, 2019 12:52:17 GMT -6
This seems really cool to me! Following the release of the viaFader multi-channel fader boxes,
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Post by gouge on Sept 5, 2019 15:45:22 GMT -6
how much?
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Post by woofhead on Sept 5, 2019 15:58:13 GMT -6
I like this idea as well as the original via fader a friend has that and checked it out.I bought a few neumann and tab faders a few years ago with the intention of creating a row of faders with slightly different colours(they are mostly tranformer active faders) and then bussing track groups to the faders, either for the colour or to mix just the levels with everything else done in the daw.One could use the faders as inserts in the daw or I also have the idea of a summing mixer using the neumann summing cards.One day...
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Post by adamjbrass on Sept 5, 2019 16:42:33 GMT -6
The Fader 1 – Mono Fader Channel Price $ 249 The Fader 2 – Stereo Fader Channel Price $ 339 The Fader 3 – Stereo Fader Channel + Monitor and Headphone outputs Price $ 399
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Post by stormymondays on Sept 6, 2019 1:58:46 GMT -6
I had been looking for this exact product for a while! I’ve always wanted to ride the fader “to tape” on the way in, the way it used to be. Of course it made a lot more sense on tape than it does on digital, but still, I think it would be a worthwhile skill to learn.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 6, 2019 12:49:19 GMT -6
I had been looking for this exact product for a while! I’ve always wanted to ride the fader “to tape” on the way in, the way it used to be. Of course it made a lot more sense on tape than it does on digital, but still, I think it would be a worthwhile skill to learn. Even with digital the mono fader makes a lot of sense to me when recording vocals and the singer pushes the pre too much. That's generally the only time I'm riding the gain, and it's kind of drag to reach over to the pre. Especially with the small knobs on the 500 series. The only downside I see is having to wire it in for each session, because I don't always use the same pre for vocals. But at first glance it seems to be a very cool product for those of us that don't use consoles.
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Post by stormymondays on Sept 7, 2019 4:35:55 GMT -6
Well, it's a line level device so you can't really use it to control the gain of a mic pre, only the output.
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Post by keymod on Sept 7, 2019 5:07:10 GMT -6
The Via Fader 16 has been on my radar for use with the sidecar I built. Luxury expense, though, at this point.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 7, 2019 7:18:25 GMT -6
Well, it's a line level device so you can't really use it to control the gain of a mic pre, only the output. Thanks for clarifying that. Much less useful to me.
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Post by dreamsambas on Sept 7, 2019 10:15:49 GMT -6
Woah- this looks sweet! The Via Fader was on my radar too, but I went for an X-desk instead for the same price. The price of these mono faders is much more manageable.
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Post by drbill on Sept 7, 2019 10:27:36 GMT -6
Well, it's a line level device so you can't really use it to control the gain of a mic pre, only the output. Thanks for clarifying that. Much less useful to me. Yeah, it's the same as a fader on a console. Post mic pre. If you're hitting the pre too hard, you still have to reach up and change the pre input level....
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Post by notneeson on Sept 7, 2019 11:12:40 GMT -6
Thanks for clarifying that. Much less useful to me. Yeah, it's the same as a fader on a console. Post mic pre. If you're hitting the pre too hard, you still have to reach up and change the pre input level.... Curious about this issue— I can't say I run out of headroom on my mic pres when tracking vocals. Once in a while there's a belter who's difficult to gain stage without clipping the AD input, but I don't find mic pres to be an issue. lpedrum can you elaborate?
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 7, 2019 12:51:01 GMT -6
Yeah, it's the same as a fader on a console. Post mic pre. If you're hitting the pre too hard, you still have to reach up and change the pre input level.... Curious about this issue— I can't say I run out of headroom on my mic pres when tracking vocals. Once in a while there's a belter who's difficult to gain stage without clipping the AD input, but I don't find mic pres to be an issue. lpedrum can you elaborate? For me there are two issues--avoiding clipping digitally, but also not pushing the pre too much so that it begins to distort the pre itself even if not clipping the converter. I don't know if my explanation is spot on technically, but that's what happens here from time to time and it would be cool to have a fader to ride instead of a small 500 series knob!
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Post by drbill on Sept 7, 2019 15:56:54 GMT -6
This fader can ride your levels to your A/D, but it can't stop the mic from pushing the pre too hard if the vocalist leans in....
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Post by notneeson on Sept 7, 2019 20:23:38 GMT -6
Curious about this issue— I can't say I run out of headroom on my mic pres when tracking vocals. Once in a while there's a belter who's difficult to gain stage without clipping the AD input, but I don't find mic pres to be an issue. lpedrum can you elaborate? For me there are two issues--avoiding clipping digitally, but also not pushing the pre too much so that it begins to distort the pre itself even if not clipping the converter. I don't know if my explanation is spot on technically, but that's what happens here from time to time and it would be cool to have a fader to ride instead of a small 500 series knob! Gotcha. Have you tried backing the input gain down to where you get clean signal consistently through the take, and making the gain back up on the cue mix? You can leave a lot of headroom to your AD, no need to track hot to digital. What pre are you using? Some pres I have used, like those in a Trident TSM, sound great right until they clip and go splat. I track at very conservative levels to the AD in general.
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Post by adamjbrass on Sept 9, 2019 9:17:12 GMT -6
Those Shure Barrel XLR Pads are pretty good at giving you some more input headroom into a mic preamp, which might collapse on you earlier than warranted.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 9, 2019 14:00:50 GMT -6
For me there are two issues--avoiding clipping digitally, but also not pushing the pre too much so that it begins to distort the pre itself even if not clipping the converter. I don't know if my explanation is spot on technically, but that's what happens here from time to time and it would be cool to have a fader to ride instead of a small 500 series knob! Gotcha. Have you tried backing the input gain down to where you get clean signal consistently through the take, and making the gain back up on the cue mix? You can leave a lot of headroom to your AD, no need to track hot to digital. What pre are you using? Some pres I have used, like those in a Trident TSM, sound great right until they clip and go splat. I track at very conservative levels to the AD in general. Yes, generally it's not a problem for the reasons you've given. But sometimes the dynamic range is very large, and/or I WANT to track hot and push the pre hard for sonic reasons. Also, if I'm running the pre low it means I have to crank the headphone amp up beyond where I might want to to give the singer enough in the phones. And in my experience singers almost always want a loud headphone mix. I know in theory that digital has "solved" the issue of needing to ride a pre when tracking vocals, but for me that's just not always the case.
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Post by drbill on Sept 9, 2019 16:16:44 GMT -6
Gotcha. Have you tried backing the input gain down to where you get clean signal consistently through the take, and making the gain back up on the cue mix? You can leave a lot of headroom to your AD, no need to track hot to digital. What pre are you using? Some pres I have used, like those in a Trident TSM, sound great right until they clip and go splat. I track at very conservative levels to the AD in general. Yes, generally it's not a problem for the reasons you've given. But sometimes the dynamic range is very large, and/or I WANT to track hot and push the pre hard for sonic reasons. Also, if I'm running the pre low it means I have to crank the headphone amp up beyond where I might want to to give the singer enough in the phones. And in my experience singers almost always want a loud headphone mix. I know in theory that digital has "solved" the issue of needing to ride a pre when tracking vocals, but for me that's just not always the case. Any time you want to run the pre hot and have a mic up, you stand the (good) chance of saturating the pre into obvious distortion. In those cases, your TALENT in front of the mic is the fader ride. No faders between mic and mic pre input. Even console faders are POST mic pre / EQ. You're gonna have to grab that input trim pot.
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Post by 000 on Sept 10, 2019 6:16:30 GMT -6
Gotcha. Have you tried backing the input gain down to where you get clean signal consistently through the take, and making the gain back up on the cue mix? You can leave a lot of headroom to your AD, no need to track hot to digital. What pre are you using? Some pres I have used, like those in a Trident TSM, sound great right until they clip and go splat. I track at very conservative levels to the AD in general. Yes, generally it's not a problem for the reasons you've given. But sometimes the dynamic range is very large, and/or I WANT to track hot and push the pre hard for sonic reasons. Also, if I'm running the pre low it means I have to crank the headphone amp up beyond where I might want to to give the singer enough in the phones. And in my experience singers almost always want a loud headphone mix. I know in theory that digital has "solved" the issue of needing to ride a pre when tracking vocals, but for me that's just not always the case. Just get two of the same preamp and split the signal. Have one dialed in for the sonics you want on the quieter parts - and one dialed in for louder parts. Im fairly certain this is common practice in some places.
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Post by notneeson on Sept 10, 2019 7:37:44 GMT -6
Maybe track clean and saturate later? Silver Bullet would do the trick!
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Post by drbill on Sept 10, 2019 9:19:19 GMT -6
Maybe track clean and saturate later? Silver Bullet would do the trick! Yes. I use it for that job all the time. But there are a lot of things you could accomplish this with. Riding a pre that close to the edge with talent that's not intimately attuned to how the pre can break up usually leads to a beautiful take that's ruined for me. Easy to accomplish after the fact and play safe. That's my perspective....
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Post by drbill on Sept 10, 2019 9:19:29 GMT -6
Maybe track clean and saturate later? Silver Bullet would do the trick! Yes. I use it for that job all the time. But there are a lot of things you could accomplish this with. Riding a pre that close to the edge with talent that's not intimately attuned to how the pre can break up usually leads to a beautiful take that's ruined for me. Easy to accomplish after the fact and play safe. That's my perspective....
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Post by soundintheround on Sept 10, 2019 9:35:00 GMT -6
This fader can ride your levels to your A/D, but it can't stop the mic from pushing the pre too hard if the vocalist leans in.... I would think everyone here is tracking well below levels which get anywhere close to clipping A/D? But putting down gain rides post-preamp /compression for benefiting the dynamics of the song, that makes sense. Less to do later. I'm in the mindset of take a few risks and capture the record going in as much as possible. If you gotta re-record a few things after the fact so be it. (...Btw never mentioned this yet, but the Silver Bullet sounds awesome from everything I've heard. Great work)
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Post by drbill on Sept 10, 2019 9:58:14 GMT -6
This fader can ride your levels to your A/D, but it can't stop the mic from pushing the pre too hard if the vocalist leans in.... I would think everyone here is tracking well below levels which get anywhere close to clipping A/D? But putting down gain rides post-preamp /compression for benefiting the dynamics of the song, that makes sense. Less to do later. I'm in the mindset of take a few risks and capture the record going in as much as possible. If you gotta re-record a few things after the fact so be it. (...Btw never mentioned this yet, but the Silver Bullet sounds awesome from everything I've heard. Great work) Thanks. You are of course right. But from my understanding, that's not what lpedrum was talking about. He wanted something post mic and pre-mic pre to ride levels going INTO the mic pre to avoid over saturation of the pre while still being able to stage it hot to get the saturation he wanted. IME, that's something best left to post-production. I learned the hard way.
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Post by notneeson on Sept 10, 2019 11:42:24 GMT -6
This fader can ride your levels to your A/D, but it can't stop the mic from pushing the pre too hard if the vocalist leans in.... I would think everyone here is tracking well below levels which get anywhere close to clipping A/D? But putting down gain rides post-preamp /compression for benefiting the dynamics of the song, that makes sense. Less to do later. I'm in the mindset of take a few risks and capture the record going in as much as possible. If you gotta re-record a few things after the fact so be it. (...Btw never mentioned this yet, but the Silver Bullet sounds awesome from everything I've heard. Great work) Yes, covered earlier in the thread.
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